To Israel’s critics abroad, the picture could not be clearer: Israel’s war in Gaza is a wildly disproportionate response to the rockets of Hamas, causing untold human suffering and bombing an already isolated and impoverished population into the Stone Age, and it must be stopped.
Yet here in Israel very few, at least among the Jewish population, see it that way.
Since Israeli warplanes opened the assault on Gaza 17 days ago, about 900 Palestinians have been reported killed, many of them civilians. Red Cross workers were denied access to scores of dead and wounded Gazans, and a civilian crowd near a United Nations school was hit, with at least 40 people killed.
But voices of dissent in this country have been rare. And while tens of thousands have poured into the streets of world capitals demonstrating against the Israeli military operation, antiwar rallies here have struggled to draw 1,000 participants. The Peace Now organization has received many messages from supporters telling it to stay out of the streets on this one.
The last sentence of this article shows the heart of the problems. Imagine if Mexico or Canada sent missles each day into a U.S. city or town and they landed on the main street of El Paso or Detroit, and only broke windows of stores and put 5 people in shock but no one was killed – every day! What would we or anyone do? I think we all know the answer and Israel is doing it. End of story until Hamas stops the rocket attacks.
Billy nailed. Hamas and those who elected them have brought this upon themselves.
I meant “Billy nailed it”, of course.
… and the West Bank is strangely quiet. You think maybe they’re on the sidelines, hopeful Hamas will go away? And Egypt; talk about your ancient rivalries; like they want to see an Iranian (think Persian) supported terrorist group survive on their doorstep!
This could all end if Hamas and the Iranian President would stop waging war on Israel and bombing her! The Israeli’s want just to live in their county in peace without fear of a Muslim rocket attack! Israel has the right as does any other country to defend herself! We did on 9/11!
I am in full support of Israel on this one! Israel has a right to defend itself. If the rest of the world wants to violence to stop then tell Hamas / Iran to stop provoking Israel and agree to recognize Israel and be at peace. Like that’s going to happen any time soon.
Billy #1: At least if the people of El Paso and Detroit wanted to escape to a safer neighborhood or city, they could. As the rocket range potentially gets longer, Israel doesn’t have that luxury. I remember talking to a Saudi Wahabee acquaintance about the Israeli-Palestinian issue. He had his simple solution: (Now elves, I’m stating an actual fact and quote.) “Drive than into the sea†Against that, anyone else in such a precarious geographical situation would use what ever necessary force there was to maintain their survival.
I think that if the good people El Paso were being rocket attacked every day from Mexico, and our government did nothing about it; they would settle the matter themselves. ;^)
Re # 1
Billy,
I see this analogy posted by Israel’s apologists repeatedly. The problem is that its not an accurate one. For it to be accurate you would need to preface the Mexican / Canadian mortar fire with the United States annexing (a nice word for stealing) large parts of Mexico / Canada. And the U. S. Gov’t providing overt and covert aid to right wing groups of neo-colonial settlers simply moving into Canada and Mexico and stealing land from the local inhabitants who are usually displaced by these thugs at gun point or are simply murdered by them if they balk at having their land stolen.
Now we have a more accurate analogy.
That said there is a lot going on over there and Israel has every right to defend itself against attacks from groups who have vowed to destroy their country. But please, let’s stop pretending Israel is some kind of martyred saint. They aren’t. They habitually and flagrantly violate international law when it suits their purposes and have gone a long ways towards fueling the rabid hatred felt towards them by their neighbors.
#9, We did – or our ancestors did- we call it Texas. Check your history. Now that I think of it, we did it from Plymouth Rock to the Keys to the Rio Grande to the Pacific and tried -but failed- in Canada.
Your point?
Ad Orientem,
Israel “stealing” “large parts”? Hardly. The entire State of Israel is the size of New Jersey. Israel was given its territory by the British in 1948, at the same time that the British and French abandoned their colonial territories and formed the states of Syria and Jordan. The Israelis invited the Palestinians living within Israel’s borders to live peaceably within the new state, but the leaders of the Arab countries instead encouraged the Palestinians to refuse that offer and instead to fight. In fact, the Arab states have simply used the Palestinians as their patsies. The wealthier Arab states could have ameliorated the poverty of their Moslem brethren in Gaza, but instead they chose to spend “aid” on weaponry to give those brethren.
From the inception of Israel to the present, the goal of the Arab states has been to drive all Israelis into the sea – to exterminate them. Don’t believe me? Just google the events of 1948 (God bless President Harry Truman for ensuring that the US was the first country to recognize Israel and her right to exist!) The censure of the world against the Israelis is simply proof that anti-semitism is alive and well. The soul of Hitler in Hell is laughing.
I am well aware of our history. Which is why I find the irony of our furious complaints about illegal immigration absolutely delicious. My point however is exactly what I said in my post. Israel is not some martyred saint. The Palestinians have legitimate grievances. And while they do not justify Israel’s destruction I see little hope for their getting any justice via Israeli magnanimity.
The tone of your post sounds a bit like the famous quote from a prominent U. S. Senator in response to claims by Panama to the canal zone back in the 70’s.
“They can’t have it. We stole it fair and square.”
Re # 11
Exactly when did England have the right to take someone’s land and give it to someone else? And how does one justify the annexation of territory including the entire city of Jerusalem? I do not question Israel’s basic right to exist. But that right stops at the pre- 1967 borders. And I note you ignored Israel’s support for right wing “settlers” in total contravention of international law.
And the whole if you dare to question Israel you are an anti-semite thing has really gotten old. That crutch needs to be put in the attic.
Look, if the “Palestinians” were to state, tomorrow morning, that they were laying down their arms, and there would be peace insofar as it rested with them, then by tomorrow noon, there would be no more war. If, tomorrow morning, Israel were to state they were laying down their arms, and there would be peace insofar as it rested with them, by tomorrow noon, there would be no more Israel. It is really that simple. The mindsets of Israel (as a state) and the Palestinians (as a ‘people’) is really that different. Israel wants to sleep at night; Palestine, and many of Israel’s arab neighbors, want Israel dead.
Re # 14
JKC 1945,
Every word of what you wrote is true. And none of it is inconsistent with what I wrote. The situation in the Middle East is very complicated and tragic. There is injustice at every turn and no one has clean hands.
The only thing I would add to what you wrote is that after the words “Israel wants to sleep at night…” I would add the words “without giving up any of their conquered land.”
You mean like the Sinai Peninsula? I seem to recall they gave that up for “peace”. Every time they give up land, they are asked to give up more and more. And will continue to be asked that until they are no more. If Israel went back to the 1967 borders, there would be no peace any more than there was in 1967!
Israel is there legally, and in legal possession of the land, just as Syria and Jordan are legally ‘states’ in their own right, created at the same time. Or do you think they should also be abolished and the land revert to the 1947 owners?
As to England, they were in possession of the land until they gave it back to Israel. Actually, England’s monarch had promised Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli back in the 1880’s (I think) that they were going to set up a homeland for the Jewish people, but then reneged on that promise, due to unrest in other areas of the Empire that needed a strong hand. To be seen giving up land would be seen as weakness. 🙁
Jim Elliott <><
Well, the British withdrawal in favor of the Jewish homeland was one of those brilliant British disengagement moves that the ABC in all his wisdom is so gaga about and of which he says the US has none, so there!
And I heartily agree that when the Arabs attacking Israel lost their land Israel should have kept all of it. Remember all those previous failures of attack that resulted in the addition of land to Israel! You’d think the folks could learn from -what is it, not one, not two, not three, but now four- beatings. Apparently they cannot. Rather like leftists who cannot grasp that there never were Palestinians, never a country of that origin in the centuries before the state of Israel was re-created by world concensus, and none of the neighbors want the folks in their country – not Jordan, not Egypt….
Ah, yes, we took it fair and square, in battle, and even gave some back. But the complexity of the situation is a figment of imagination dreamed of as an excuse to cover the desired sinful outcome – the eradication of Israel. It bears the same complexity as abortion – just complex enough to do what the leftists want. Too bad the drug cartels in Mexico are attacking Americans and assassinating hospitalized folks on American soil. It makes that whole Wall thing look like a great option!
Re # 17,
A few quick points. You quote the Sinai Peninsula as though it were some horrible defeat. Its return to Egypt was probably the greatest single diplomatic coup in Israel’s history. It has bought them roughly 30 years of peace on that border, normalized relations with an erstwhile implacable enemy, and provided an avenue of peaceful trade and commerce and even… tourism!!! (Yes honest to God Arab Muslim tourists)
[blockquote] Israel is there legally, and in legal possession of the land,[/blockquote]
If you mean within the pre-1967 borders I would concur. Outside of it they are not.
[blockquote] just as Syria and Jordan are legally ‘states’ in their own right, created at the same time.[/blockquote]
They substantially exist within their original borders, unlike Israel.
[blockquote] As to England, they were in possession of the land until they gave it back to Israel. Actually, England’s monarch had promised Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli back in the 1880’s (I think) that they were going to set up a homeland for the Jewish people, but then reneged on that promise, due to unrest in other areas of the Empire that needed a strong hand. [/blockquote]
Actually Palestine was never part of the British Empire. It was handed over to them as a mandate by the League of Nations with the direction to prepare the indigenous peoples for independence. But that part is neither here nor there as I have clearly stated I have no quarrel with Israel’s right to exist within her original borders. (I wonder how many times I need to repeat that.)
[blockquote] To be seen giving up land would be seen as weakness. 🙁 [/blockquote]
That is not supported by the history of the Camp David accords. Israel enjoys peaceful and normalized relations with two of its neighbors. This can be extended. But two things need to happen. First the Palestinians need to come to terms with Israel’s existence and accept that within the framework of the 1967 borders. And Israel must return land stolen/annexed in 1967 and subsequent years by their so called settlers. I see little hope of either occurring and as a result I expect the cycle of bloodshed to continue indefinitely.
A sign of weakness — to her present day enemies, who when Israel DID give up land, promptly demanded more, and began attacking more earnestly.
Again, when Israel was within the 1967 borders, they were STILL attacked. The borders do not mean a thing to her enemies — it is her very existence that must be eradicated, so that they have NO borders. when did Israel get all this “extra” land? After they were attacked by how many other nations? 4? And defeated them all! If the pre-67 borders are all that important now, why weren’t they held as standard by her enemies THEN?
Syria and Jordan (especially Jordan) were created to house the now-named “Palestinians” who were displaced when Israel was created. That wasn’t honored by the people put into power, who then promptly attacked Israel.
Notice a trend? No matter what the borders, no matter how much Israel gives up, she is going to be attacked for the simple reason that Israel EXISTS. Solution: recognize the current borders, have the UN pass a resolution against any country that provides weapons to Hamas or other terror groups, and against any country that attacks Israel. Once peace is firmly and permanently established, and proven, then we can talk about the borders and an independent Gaza. That’s my view.
[i] Syria and Jordan (especially Jordan) were created to house the now-named “Palestinians†who were displaced when Israel was created [/i]
What’s your source for that assertion? Who “created” Syria and Jordan for that purpose?
— Syria gained independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1920, came under a French mandate that year, and became independent of France in 1944.
— Jordan grew out of the autonomous Emirate of Transjordan. The emirate took shape during the early 1920s. It had the same territory east of the Jordan and the same royal family as the current Kingdom of Jordan.
Jordan held the West Bank from 1948 to 1967 and can be justly criticized for keeping Palestinians in refugee camps. But Jordan was not [i]created[/i] to house displaced Palestinians.
Irenaeus, right on! History as it occurred versus its revision. Where was the world outrage over Jordan not producing a Palestinian homeland? The silence was deafening. Still is.