Two mainline Protestant denominations, after decades of wrestling over the place of homosexuality in the church, are considering allowing local congregations to select pastors who are in long-term, monogamous, same-gender relationships.
The church council of the largest Lutheran body in the US, the 5-million-member Evangelical Lutheran Church of America (ELCA), decided this week to send such a recommendation to its national assembly. The proposal would take effect if supported by majority vote at the assembly’s biennial meeting in August.
The 2.3-million-member Presbyterian Church (USA) approved the idea at its national assembly last summer, but a majority of the church’s 173 district bodies, called presbyteries, must vote in favor by June for it to become church policy.
The homosexualists have no integrity. If they did, they would not ordain clergy in “long term, monogamous relationships.” Rather, they would first work for “Christian marriage” of homosexuals, then ordain “married” clergy. Otherwise, they are discriminating against heterosexuals in “long term, monogamous relationships.”
The “homosexualists” and their allies have for a very long time understood the value of fighting on multiple fronts. Divide and conquer.
‘Integrity’ is only a name in political agit-speak. The outlook so denominated has destroped Ecusa and bids fair to do the same to other Protestant bodies.
Is this an intended word play by the newspaper? Doesn’t “soft” have a particular connotation in Greek?
Re: Daniel #4
You give way too much credit to journalists and/or headline writers. Perhaps there is a headline writer out there who had a classical education, but don’t bet on it.
[blockquote]Otherwise, they are discriminating against heterosexuals in “long term, monogamous relationships.†[/blockquote]
In point of fact, they have no problem with unmarried heterosexuals in “long term, monogamous relationships” being priests. It’s just not bruited about.
#1 and 2 —
who exactly are these “homosexualists”? what does that even mean? are straight allies of lgbtq people included? how about bisexuals, or transgender people who may or may not identify as gay or lesbian? how about faithful gay or lesbian christian deputies who are celibate, or those who may have voted in favor of b033?
i would appreciate clarifications of made-up terms.
I can’t speak for #1 or #2, but my understanding of the term “homosexualist” is anyone of any sexual persuasion who promotes and advocates for the “normalization” of the homosexual lifestyle as being right, proper, and a gift from God.
Whoops, ended too soon . . . as opposed to those who hold the biblical view that sees marriage between a man and a woman as the proper way God has provided for us to express our sexual desires.
#8 and 9 –
i have two questions in response to your definition:
1) if being gay or lesbian is not being seen as a “gift from God,” as you imply, is that because it is not a gift, or not from God?
2) if any old marriage between and a man and a woman is preferable to any marriage between two men or two women, does this then imply that something like britney spears’s 48 hour las vegas fling is morally/spiritually superior to a 20 year commitment between a gay or lesbian couple? or are you only thinking about church-sanctioned marriages, such as the many (including those among bishops!) which have ended in divorce and/or remarriage?
#10 – these issues have been discussed over and over again. I don’t want to just repeat information that will be discarded or ignored, but basically, we live in a fallen world, both spiritually and physically. All people are born in the image of God, but it is an imperfect image in this fallen world. God, starting in Genesis and throughout His Scripture and through His Son, Jesus Christ, has shown that marriage between one man and one woman is His desire for us to rightly express our sexual desires. We have failed Him on this, by our sinful natures and desires. We allow for divorce for any reason and we don’t honor our vows – all of this leads to a world in which the marriage sacrament is abused and ignored, to our detriment.
#11 –
but then why choose (or at least allow) divorce/remarriage, etc. to go so often unchallenged, while simultaneously railing against lgbtq people (not necessarily you personally, but in general)? why the double standard? and then, back to the age old questions — how to decide which bible verses to focus on and which to discard. why not focus on shellfish or pork? yes, some modern bibles write of homosexuality, a term which wasn’t around until the 1800s, which was originally used to describe same-sex pederasty and/or rape, not consensual sex. though old and much-debated, i think these are still worthy of attention, especially when the rationale again goes back to “for the bible tells me so.” the elca and presbyterian churches will have an important job in hashing this all out, just as tec will continue to do this summer.
#11 – please, not the “shellfish” argument again! You can check the archives here at TitusOneNine and StandFirm to get all the biblical, theological, scholarly reasons why your arguments are incorrect – I won’t repeat them here. I will say, however, that you are right – we should not allow divorce/remarriage to go unchallenged – there should be no double standard on this issue – we should strive to honor God’s desire for us, for it is best for us. God bless.
youngadult (#12)
For the Church’s view on how to read the OT Law, please look at Acts 15. Sexual Immorality is still in that list and I hope you are well read enough to understand that all the Apostles believed homosexual sex to be immoral – in any situation. While the word “homosexual” did not exist until the 19th century, the concept did exist and has been known since ancient times. Read Plato’s Republic if you don’t believe me. I am afraid that you have been lied to about what Scripture says concerning homoerotic acts. I challenge you to find a place in Holy Scripture where homoerotic acts are spoken of as “blessed.”
To answer your questions in #10
1. Homosexual orientation is not given by God. It is part of our fallen nature. Homosexual orientation can be seen as a gift – if it drives one to rely on God alone for the strength to overcome it. But any besetting sin can be seen as a “gift” in that light.
2. The pseudo-marriages of pop idols are actually “worse” than life long homosexual relationships. The “serial-monogamy” that is rampant in today’s society (one wife/husband – at a time) is worse than a life long homosexual relationship. That does not mean that homosexual relationships are good. They are still sinful. They are less sinful (or as sinful) as our overly sexualized society’s expessions of sex.
Divorce is just as bad as homoerotic sex. Premaritial sex is just as bad as homoerotic sex. Any sex outside of marriage – one man and one woman – is sinful.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
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Elf Lady
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