Be careful, #2 – essentially this structure is the “order of worship” which is found for us in [i]The Book of Common Prayer[/i] (or other liturgical books for other traditions). I am most profoundly drawn into worship of our God with the anglican formulary; however, God is liturgical/sacramental (Father), evangelical (Son) and charismatic (Spirit), the Three in One. This order and style of worship neglects certain aspects of the Godhead – and doesn’t work well to draw me to worship – but I believe it represents a part of God’s character and we must be careful to understand what value it has. It also, traditionally, is much better at drawing in unbelievers and helping bring them to faith than our more formal style.
What a nail-on-the-head. And those half-glasses with the dark frames are the hallmark of the liberal TEC aging priest who still wants to think he’s hip and emergent. Our old canon to the ordinary affected them.
Add a goatee and you’re *really really* cool and trendy and artistic.
RE: “It also, traditionally, is much better at drawing in unbelievers and helping bring them to faith than our more formal style.”
Well, I think it’s better at drawing in unbelievers *of a certain type*. But there are whole chunks of unbelievers who are thoroughly unattracted to it. Many of my unchurched friends [and many younger than me by a decade and more] curl the lip at that kind of worship.
One of them said [when I suggested a casual worship style church in town] “oh no — I want a real church, not a fake one, if I’m going.”
My suspicion is that a lot of the people attracted to the contemporary style churches are *already Christians* and just sick of their old style churches. It’s rather like all the baby boomers in TEC who were convinced that using 1970s/80s “praise music” would attract the young people when in reality it just attracted the baby boomers who were already churched and believers.
Older folk attempting to be “cool” are so silly.. They weren’t “cool” when they were younger, and they just look ridiculous now.. I am a ‘high church” Evangelical, but appealing to the lowest common denominator, just leaves folks where they are.. “The most comments on from older folks on such as this is: “I FEEL SO GOOD”… But, I’d bet that “feeling” won’t last long, so they will come back the next Sunday to get their fix, and only occasionally see anything useful in the liturgy.. I seldom feel “so good” when I leave church, while my sins have been forgiven, and I have taken communion, I am more aware of trying to do better in my walk, and I’ve usually been challanged to move along the “way”..
Excellent post, about as meaningless as some place I’ve been recently.
Grandmother
As one of those one-time “younger folks†who left a tradition trying to be “hip†and relevant for classical Anglicanism, I found this both very funny (I’ve seen it before, but enjoy it every time I see it again—it is a fine example of true satire) and very telling.
When I first experienced Anglican worship (of a pretty “high†sacramental character) it immersed me in the transcendent presence of God the Holy Trinity, instead of the feeling-driven and highly immanent “prison†I had experienced in a number of other contexts. Immediately, I knew I was where God called me to be.
Christian worship has always had to struggle with keeping a balance between the transcendent and the immanent. However, I would hazard a guess that many (if not most) churches in the U.S. during the last 40 years or so have consciously or unconsciously chosen to put the premium on immanence. The result (for me) was a sense that God was not really “invited†to the worship: it was about our own feelings and comfort.
I have been to liturgies that seemed to amount to a “performance†by a choir and some “liturgical professionals,†it is true. But even then, the dependable words of the liturgy (mostly from Scripture and the early and undivided Church) opened the doors human weakness might have sought to close. This is true for some sermons, as well. In my pre-Anglican days, this often seemed hard to happen, when there were few limits on what the “worship leaders” could do. Thank the Lord for worship that transcends the times and the personalities!
There are many people who find “contemprovant†worship meaningful. That is between them and God, of course. However, I am very thankful that this video has almost no correlation to the worship I experience in our parish church.
church…hmmm? Does not look , sound or probably even smell like it! Seems like that kind of setting lends itself for being more focused on the “performers”. No thank you! TEC ok for me!
LOL! Yes, that reminds me very much of a Vineyard chiurch or two that I’ve been too… and not too far off from a Calvary Chapel church I visited in S. FL as well.
My unbelieving brother is very much of the “it’s got to be a “real” church” if I’m gonna go type. He’s been lately checking out a TEC church in Charlotte, NC, partly because of their job seekers support group… We visited a few more contemporary services / churches together when I was looking for a church home in Charlotte, and he just didn’t like them at all. He wants organ & stained glass…
Interesting. I just visited my brother and his family and convinced them to go to a church just like one this video is making fun of. I would really have liked them to have gone to the Anglican church down the road but I felt a lot more confident that the non-denom church we went to would meet them where they are and bring them to Jesus. This video is very funny. But the fact is so many of these churches bring people to Jesus when we Anglicans fail to…They are so much more intentional and effective at that goal. My brother’s family stopped attending two different mainline denomination churches and had given up on the church thing. At the non-denom they all said “this didn’t feel like church at all” — which was a negative. And yet they also all said they wanted to come back, which they didn’t say about the local catholic and presbyterian churches. The message met them right where they were. I felt the presence of the Lord in the worship. I found so much was missing in the worship but what they do have my church is missing, effective evangelism.
Episcoanglican — I’m sincerely happy for your brother and you. Indeed, I often recommend that seekers attend any church that I believe will fit their needs, and those are often *not* Anglican churches.
It’s wonderful that your brother has found a place.
Oh. My. Goodness. This is so right on. Describes EVERY and I do mean EVERY contemporary worship service I have ever attended. At the AMIA church I attended, I didn’t even recognize the eucharistic part of the service. As a very watered down eucharistic prayer was given from the stage up front, the ushers and coffee drinkers were milling in the back, chatting it up until it was time to file up for communion. The whole service felt so much like entertainment and you, the lowly parishoner, were not invited to participate. It is a very large church and I’m sure the faithful ones were the ones that rushed the stage but as a visitor, all I wanted was to go home. The funny thing- our teenage kids made us promise that this was not going to turn into our home church. “How do you hear God when it is so loud?” Two points for the undiscerning teen.
Trimom, we visited another Anglican church here for a few weeks, going to a different service each Sunday to get a feel for their community. The “Contemporary” service was just as you described above! A concert with a weak Eucharistic prayer from the BCP tacked on to the end. Definitely not for me!
(I honestly DID have a headache when I went in, and left because of IT not because of the service, although I felt no guilt at walking out when they ‘wheeled’ the altar out to center ‘stage’ after the Band left and the announcements were over.)
Oh my goodness!!! We go to a Vineyard when we visit my wife’s family in another town – this has got that pegged! Hilarious.
Just too good! Makes me want to set up a screen in my church just to show this to those who doubt the worth of real worship.
Be careful, #2 – essentially this structure is the “order of worship” which is found for us in [i]The Book of Common Prayer[/i] (or other liturgical books for other traditions). I am most profoundly drawn into worship of our God with the anglican formulary; however, God is liturgical/sacramental (Father), evangelical (Son) and charismatic (Spirit), the Three in One. This order and style of worship neglects certain aspects of the Godhead – and doesn’t work well to draw me to worship – but I believe it represents a part of God’s character and we must be careful to understand what value it has. It also, traditionally, is much better at drawing in unbelievers and helping bring them to faith than our more formal style.
Tee hee.
What a nail-on-the-head. And those half-glasses with the dark frames are the hallmark of the liberal TEC aging priest who still wants to think he’s hip and emergent. Our old canon to the ordinary affected them.
Add a goatee and you’re *really really* cool and trendy and artistic.
RE: “It also, traditionally, is much better at drawing in unbelievers and helping bring them to faith than our more formal style.”
Well, I think it’s better at drawing in unbelievers *of a certain type*. But there are whole chunks of unbelievers who are thoroughly unattracted to it. Many of my unchurched friends [and many younger than me by a decade and more] curl the lip at that kind of worship.
One of them said [when I suggested a casual worship style church in town] “oh no — I want a real church, not a fake one, if I’m going.”
My suspicion is that a lot of the people attracted to the contemporary style churches are *already Christians* and just sick of their old style churches. It’s rather like all the baby boomers in TEC who were convinced that using 1970s/80s “praise music” would attract the young people when in reality it just attracted the baby boomers who were already churched and believers.
Older folk attempting to be “cool” are so silly.. They weren’t “cool” when they were younger, and they just look ridiculous now.. I am a ‘high church” Evangelical, but appealing to the lowest common denominator, just leaves folks where they are.. “The most comments on from older folks on such as this is: “I FEEL SO GOOD”… But, I’d bet that “feeling” won’t last long, so they will come back the next Sunday to get their fix, and only occasionally see anything useful in the liturgy.. I seldom feel “so good” when I leave church, while my sins have been forgiven, and I have taken communion, I am more aware of trying to do better in my walk, and I’ve usually been challanged to move along the “way”..
Excellent post, about as meaningless as some place I’ve been recently.
Grandmother
As one of those one-time “younger folks†who left a tradition trying to be “hip†and relevant for classical Anglicanism, I found this both very funny (I’ve seen it before, but enjoy it every time I see it again—it is a fine example of true satire) and very telling.
When I first experienced Anglican worship (of a pretty “high†sacramental character) it immersed me in the transcendent presence of God the Holy Trinity, instead of the feeling-driven and highly immanent “prison†I had experienced in a number of other contexts. Immediately, I knew I was where God called me to be.
Christian worship has always had to struggle with keeping a balance between the transcendent and the immanent. However, I would hazard a guess that many (if not most) churches in the U.S. during the last 40 years or so have consciously or unconsciously chosen to put the premium on immanence. The result (for me) was a sense that God was not really “invited†to the worship: it was about our own feelings and comfort.
I have been to liturgies that seemed to amount to a “performance†by a choir and some “liturgical professionals,†it is true. But even then, the dependable words of the liturgy (mostly from Scripture and the early and undivided Church) opened the doors human weakness might have sought to close. This is true for some sermons, as well. In my pre-Anglican days, this often seemed hard to happen, when there were few limits on what the “worship leaders” could do. Thank the Lord for worship that transcends the times and the personalities!
There are many people who find “contemprovant†worship meaningful. That is between them and God, of course. However, I am very thankful that this video has almost no correlation to the worship I experience in our parish church.
Growtivation on Growtivision: Too cool to drink.
church…hmmm? Does not look , sound or probably even smell like it! Seems like that kind of setting lends itself for being more focused on the “performers”. No thank you! TEC ok for me!
LOL! Yes, that reminds me very much of a Vineyard chiurch or two that I’ve been too… and not too far off from a Calvary Chapel church I visited in S. FL as well.
My unbelieving brother is very much of the “it’s got to be a “real” church” if I’m gonna go type. He’s been lately checking out a TEC church in Charlotte, NC, partly because of their job seekers support group… We visited a few more contemporary services / churches together when I was looking for a church home in Charlotte, and he just didn’t like them at all. He wants organ & stained glass…
Hey Karen B — there’s a couple of great TEC churches in Charlotte — email me if you don’t know of them.
Interesting. I just visited my brother and his family and convinced them to go to a church just like one this video is making fun of. I would really have liked them to have gone to the Anglican church down the road but I felt a lot more confident that the non-denom church we went to would meet them where they are and bring them to Jesus. This video is very funny. But the fact is so many of these churches bring people to Jesus when we Anglicans fail to…They are so much more intentional and effective at that goal. My brother’s family stopped attending two different mainline denomination churches and had given up on the church thing. At the non-denom they all said “this didn’t feel like church at all” — which was a negative. And yet they also all said they wanted to come back, which they didn’t say about the local catholic and presbyterian churches. The message met them right where they were. I felt the presence of the Lord in the worship. I found so much was missing in the worship but what they do have my church is missing, effective evangelism.
Episcoanglican — I’m sincerely happy for your brother and you. Indeed, I often recommend that seekers attend any church that I believe will fit their needs, and those are often *not* Anglican churches.
It’s wonderful that your brother has found a place.
Love the papyrus font award and the edgy t-shirt awards. Really cool.
Really silly.
Oh. My. Goodness. This is so right on. Describes EVERY and I do mean EVERY contemporary worship service I have ever attended. At the AMIA church I attended, I didn’t even recognize the eucharistic part of the service. As a very watered down eucharistic prayer was given from the stage up front, the ushers and coffee drinkers were milling in the back, chatting it up until it was time to file up for communion. The whole service felt so much like entertainment and you, the lowly parishoner, were not invited to participate. It is a very large church and I’m sure the faithful ones were the ones that rushed the stage but as a visitor, all I wanted was to go home. The funny thing- our teenage kids made us promise that this was not going to turn into our home church. “How do you hear God when it is so loud?” Two points for the undiscerning teen.
Trimom, we visited another Anglican church here for a few weeks, going to a different service each Sunday to get a feel for their community. The “Contemporary” service was just as you described above! A concert with a weak Eucharistic prayer from the BCP tacked on to the end. Definitely not for me!
(I honestly DID have a headache when I went in, and left because of IT not because of the service, although I felt no guilt at walking out when they ‘wheeled’ the altar out to center ‘stage’ after the Band left and the announcements were over.)
Peace to you
Jim E. <><