I don’t feel compelled to pray for his soul. Not at all.
But I think we should pray extra hard for our troops. The terrorists are going to go nuts claiming him as a martyr and our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq may face more attacks.
We should also be on guard at home.
If the Al Qaeda network has a terrorist plot within the USA that is ‘ready to go’ and just waiting for the ‘go ahead,’ then that plot will most likely be executed in retaliation for the loss of bin Laden.
Supposedly, he was killed by an American operation. Somebody will be getting a promotion!!! (Or at least a medal!!)
I thought I would be happy at the news, but I just can’t be happy about someone’s death. I am surprised at myself, I guess I do have a little bit of compassion for my enemies!! (shame on me!)
This is a great day. Regardless of what has happened or what will happen, it cannot be said that the United States of America has not persevered in dealing with Public Enemy Number One.
What a fantastic speech by the President. Only a few didactic sentences, but deeply deeply gratifying overall. I was actually afraid that he would “be Obama” but instead he was the President of our country.
Thank God — a good moment for our country and for him.
Sarah and recchip, y’all are better Christians than I. I’ve been imagining the look on his face when the 72 virgins don’t show up and the Lord Jesus does! 🙂
6. One wag on a milblog has already quipped that AG Holder is already assembling a task force to insure that all of UBL’s constitutional rights were respected.
Sarah: “All faiths aren’t the same—and what one believes really matters.”
Wow, that’s for sure, but it’s a very hard point to get across to many of today’s students, who can take wanting to be “nice,” tolerant, and diversity-embracing to an extreme. But I do my best.
I am just getting the news after sunrise in Cairo. Yesterday the salafists were staging a lye-in in the streets before the coptic cathedral over their anger at women converting. The situation was ugly. I wonder what reaction the Egyptians will have as the diocese of Egypt meets in synod this morning. I will not be dancing in the streets. I remember a liberal Stanford professor telling a hall of alums that Bin Laden was really like a modern day Robin Hood charming the oppressed by out witting the high tech west from a cave. I put up my hand to ask if the original Robin Hood was worth 150 million and had a father who married and divorced more women than 3 or 4 Henry VIII’s. But the prof wouldn’t take my question. I will say morning prayer and think more of what it means to follow the true Prince of Peace.
Sarah, in #12,
I don’t have an ounce of sympathy for the leaders of such self-deception, as bin Laden was. They have fully earned what they face at the hour of their deaths. He used his family name and money to craft a message of intense hatred and effect terror. I might have a tiny bit of sympathy for their deluded followers, but not much.
I don’t like what I’m seeing on TV, though. Crowds of frat boy types outside the White House chanting and singing stupid songs. I hope Americans don’t rise to the level of tackiness that some unfortunately have perfected. Keep it classy, please, folks.
Looks like a spontaneous patriotic gathering of jubilation. I don’t see the frat-boy stuff. I don’t think it’s going to be possible for us to all be restrained and reserved, any more than when Hitler was known to be dead.
Sarah,
You’re not hearing the “nananana, hey-hey” song? And seeing the stupid faces they’re making into the camera? A few are waving Obama campaign signs, too. Tacky. Very few of them are over the age of 22 so I’m wondering if this is staged by the Young Dems or something.
Looks like the lake of fire has a new resident. My God have mercy on me for saying this. But for Jesus Christ I would be heading there myself.
YIC,
NW Bob
Obama’s speech was too long and not his best. But it doesn’t really matter. He could have delivered the speech in pig latin while wearing a toga. It still wouldn’t have mattered. Bin Laden is DEAD. That matters.
I haven’t felt this good in ages. Time for a good cigar and some champagne. I wonder if this is maybe a little how people felt on V-J Day?
watching all the people on tv singing and “partying” if you will reminded me of what the people did in the middle east after 9/11, they to were dancing, rejoicing, “partying”.
I don’t see how being happy at the death of anyone is something to be proud of.
I do feel some relief but i dare not and hope not it to be joy.
RE: “But for Jesus Christ I would be heading there myself.”
So true. That’s what I was getting at earlier. But for Christ *all* of us “have fully earned what they face at the hour of their deaths.”
RE: “I haven’t felt this good in ages.”
Word. I have mixed feelings, but a part of those is such joy and thankfulness. I am so happy for the families of 911, for our troops and the intelligence communities, for all of us as citizens, and for people the world over.
I don’t rejoice in his death but I do feel a calm satisfaction that something as been made right in the universe.
I won’t deceive myself into thinking this means we are safe. Another will take his place and those who love peace and justice and freedome will again be compelled to take up arms against those who embrace terror.
I pray for all those in the fight whether on the ground or behind the scenes. We fight because to put it simply the soul of the world is at stake.
The US has been at war with al-Qaeda my entire adult life, whether it wanted to admit it at the time or not when the war first started (I am 30 years old and was watching TV when the first WTC bomb went off).
That the man behind two decades of attacks on the US is now dead thanks the the US military is not a fact I will regret or not find a sense of relief that an era is over.
May he become nameless now that he is dead…May God give those who have died by this man’s efforts, peace. Those who for the rest of their lives will suffer because of him, peace. Those living under tyranny because of him , of any type, freedom and peace. And may the world now be a more peaceful place.
Well, the world is certainly better off with him dead rather than alive. I don’t regret his death in the slightest. I don’t feel celebratory, though… more the sense of weary satisfaction that comes from finally completing a distasteful but necessary task.
The news story I saw said that the crowd at the White House was singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” and “We Are the Champions.” The first one is absolutely appropriate at this time… the second one, I dunno.
#8 Sarah says:
But my *second* thought was that Osama bin Laden has met God now—and my heart can’t help but quail over that.
It’s unwise, of course, to speculate on the fate of anyone’s eternal soul… but in this case, mercy could be almost as terrible as judgment. Can you imagine what it would be like to be suddenly gifted with a conscience — not just a normal human conscience, but one unfettered by fallen human limitations — and then to have 9/11 on it? Can you imagine what that would feel like?
I saw the news this morning. Bin Laden has seen God as He really is, not as Islam imagines. News reports say one woman was killed when she was used as a shield. That’s emblematic of al Qaeda: ferocity and a total lack of decency and honor. The body has been thrown into the sea. Very appropriate.
I didn’t see the celebration in DC last night. News reports say there were Marines there smoking celebratory cigars. Semper fi.
Celebrations erupted all over the US — twitter feeds were carrying questions about where to celebrate.
One of the reporters interviewed several at Washington DC — two were young ex military/current military [she in the Navy, he former Marine]. Boy did they look young. Several others were parents of dead veterans, and Army wives.
I wonder if it is not time to cut Pakistan loose to live or die on their own. With allies like this, who needs enemies? We have poured countless millions into Pakistan, and to what end? And I wonder if it is not time to cut Afghanistan loose at the same time. We should be helping the rebels in Libya who are showing the courage and purpose to do their own fighting and it is precisely these we should support, not those for whom we must do their fighting. If they are not willing to fight for their own freedom, can we succeed if we take up their burden which they will not lift themselves?
Al Quaeda and the Taliban have succeeded PRECISELY because those populations which it has infested are not willing to fight back, not willing to spend their own blood first. Larry
#38, reports are that al Qaeda is strong among the Libyan rebels. I do not know, nor does anyone as far as I can see, what the “right side” in Libya may be. Maybe there isn’t one.
I just read that one woman was used as a human shield by our adversaries and was shot dead. I feel bad about that…the terror of that situation is so palpable.
#21, I’m not into tacky displays, either; but, in some cases, do we have armchair pacifists all of a sudden cheering the success of a military operation?!! That would be ironic, but predictable.
I’m so happy for the 9/11 families. And deeply proud of the compatriots of Seal Team Six!!! GO NAVY!! 🙂 Not to mention all of our men and women in uniform and the intelligence communities who have positively contributed to these operations, especially the fallen. Prayers for eternal rest; their sacrifice was not in vain.
Of course it is good news. But terrorism is not ended and the overreach of the American security services will continue to go un-checked. The reach of Homeland Security is truly frightening. Do I feel safer going through an airport? No, just violated.
I am confused. Carl and Sarah have been spending the last few months explaining to me that in order for a US President to commit US forces to an operation in a foreign country that Congressional approval and a declaration of war on Pakistan would have been necessary, failing which it would be essential for him to be impeached in order to preserve the US Constitution and democracy. Oh well, I suppose it all depends.
Personally I am grateful; we in the UK lost our own nationals in the Kings Cross bombings in London on 7/7 2005. Friends and family of those I know were lost in 9/11 among the British people working in and around the World Trade Center. We are grateful to the US President and US forces who bravely undertook this operation and thankful for all those who have been working behind the scenes to keep us safe, as Mr Cameron said today. It puts in perspective the decision by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to postpone yesterday a proposed honeymoon rumored to have been in Jordan. Although apparently no one was told of of the intended action, it may be that a security warning was sent.
The danger continues in a movement which has spread in the last few years worldwide as a sort of franchise. However the removal of the founder and perpetrator of much of the murder is a huge blow, and makes the world a safer place. If anything though now is a time for increased vigilance, a time to keep after Al Zawiri and Bin Laden’s commanders and to keep the pressure up on the other break off franchisees, including making sure that the Bin Laden fortune is not allowed to pass to terrorists. I would caution against over the top celebrations like that from NY last night which is being broadcast on Arab channels and could well feed and antagonise opinion in the Middle East. It is a time for gratitude, thanks and appreciation for those working to keep us safe.
Prayers in particular for Westerners and Christians in the region who are particularly vulnerable at this time.
We need to also bear in mind Pakistan at the moment. President Obama made it clear that the Pakistan government had been supportive both in logistics and intelligence, although presumably for security reasons not advised of this operation. Yet I have heard criticism today that Pakistan had this character under their noses. The government of Pakistan is in a difficult position – criticised in the West for the presence of Bin Laden and said to have done nothing about him, and criticised at home and in the region for cooperating with the US and perhaps providing the intelligence which led to this operation and for another country mounting a military operation on its territory. I don’t see how information like the absense of telephone lines and internet connections to the Bin Laden compound which tipped people off to the possibility of terrorists could have been obtained without Pakistani cooperation, but something which perhaps being too open about puts them at risk, with a former government minister and others recently assassinated.
RE: “Carl and Sarah have been spending the last few months explaining to me that in order for a US President to commit US forces to an operation in a foreign country that Congressional approval and a declaration of war on Pakistan would have been necessary, failing which it would be essential for him to be impeached in order to preserve the US Constitution and democracy.”
Not at all. Permission by Congress was freely given for America to pursue and bring to justice those who were responsible for the 9-11 terror act. A part of that mission has now been fulfilled and it was nicely Constitutional, not that you would care about such trifles. My only quibble with Congress’s appropriate authorization of use of military back in 2001 was that I would have liked a formal declaration of war declared upon our enemies. But Congress’s authorization sufficed.
Further, you’ve muddled up those with whom you’ve been arguing over Libya. Neither Carl nor I called for the impeachment of Obama — you’ve got us confused with a couple of other commenters.
So to summarize, unlike those who loudly proclaimed it [i]An Absolute Moral Duty[/i] for us to use military might to defend civilians threatened by murderous thugs in other countries, Carl and I have been consistent in this issue regarding America’s use of military force.
And yes, you are confused.
But how nice of you to thrust an off-topic comment about Libya and political arguments into this wonderful thread on Osama’s death.
Libya in contrast had no such authorization or declaration and I have called for Obama’s impeachment for violating the US Constitution. See, often the ends are important but the ways and means even more so. The President is supposed to be subject to and operate the laws of the land one of which is the US Constitution. It goes to the integrity of our government and its legitimacy. Of course Obama doesn’t really care about that so long as he can slickly move around or ignore them.
Perhaps PM can better appreciate this conversation from “A Man for All Seasons”
[blockquote]William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake![/blockquote]
“It puts in perspective the decision by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to postpone yesterday a proposed honeymoon rumored to have been in Jordan. Although apparently no one was told of of the intended action, it may be that a security warning was sent”.
Smart moves all around–it’s my understanding that this news has been “sat on” for at least a week–releasing it at the time would have, amongst other things, marred Britain’s and others’ happiness; and WORSE, way worse, made the royal wedding, etc. a huge security risk.
And yes, “vigilance” is a most important word. I personally have no problem with Homeland Security or otherwise “violating” me if it will save other lives.
So, does the issue now become when Eric Holder will start looking at the SEALS’ violation of UBL’s constitutional rights? While that seems far fetched, if it happens I won’t be surprised.
Perhaps we can discuss Women’s Ordination now as well, along with why Obama should not be re-elected and whether the Lockerbie bomber should have been deported.
As I said earlier, it is time to cut Pakistan loose. There is no creddible reason for their not knowing OSB was there. If we could figure it out, Pakistan couldn’t?
This alone will almost guarantee the Obama will get reelected. this is one for the history books. To be sure, there is already a successor to OBL Who can doubt that? But I wonder if all the activity in the Islamic world for new freedoms does not at last spell the end of OSB-like terrrorists, since they require secrecy as well a fanaticism. Fundamentalism will remain, as it always does, among the powerless and frightened because it grants a security the world itself cannot give, but the power to vote must be the kiss of death to the Moslem Mafia.
This alone will almost guarantee the Obama will get reelected.
Well, I’m an Obama supporter, so I hope he does get re-elected; but I seriously doubt this has put it in the bag. Useful publicity, no doubt, but we’re still far enough out from the election that the effects will be swamped by whatever hits the news in mid-to-late 2012.
And realistically, as much as I was not a supporter of GWB, I doubt Obama did anything differently here than Bush did or would have; it’s just chance that it happened to come up on Obama’s watch rather than Bush’s.
#52–Since unemployment will still be at 9% + in 2012, there will still be a $1T + deficit, gas will still be above $4 a gallon and Obama will be fighting tooth and nail to keep social entitlement progams from any changes, I wouldn’t be so sure this will have any effect on his re-election. And if something else happens in the US before November of next year no one will care about this.
On the one hand this probably doesn’t change anything (either with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, our politics, or the 2012 election). On the other hand, here’s to our boys who got the job done (our men and women in uniform). As much as I would like to say that our ten year national nightmare is over it undoubtedly is not. This is probably more like the V-E Day of our times, a great victory but with much sad work yet to do. But I say party on, young people in the streets; tomorrow there will be problems aplenty to face, but we can always remember we had today.
Pageantmaster,
I agree with most of your comments but I think you’re being a bit too generous in regard to Pakistan. I’ve read articles stating that this mansion in which they found bin Laden was built in 2005 supposedly by one of the penniless couriers.
Now, particularly in that part of the world, a mansion being built (especially one that is cut off from communications) gets the attention of residents and officials. Either they suspected and didn’t investigate or they knew and didn’t want to be involved.
When I lived right on the southern U.S. border, the local joke was that the mansions in this otherwise poor area were owned by either doctors or drug cartel members. And it was true. The local offices of the FBI, DEA, and others kept a very close eye on bank accounts, property purchases/construction, and other key clues because this was the best way of gaining insight and evidence on suspected criminal activity and cartel kingpins.
Pakistanis are not stupid;I’m sure these things are red flags for them, as well, when they’re serious about investigations and surveillance. Bin Laden felt confident enough to arrange for the building of a mansion for himself, if reports are correct, quite close to a Pakistani military installation. We need to stop sending money to Pakistan and rethink that relationship.
#58 Teatime2
I think we really don’t know enough to say what the position of Pakistan was. No doubt there are elements in the military and intelligence with links and sympathies dating back to the days when they [and the US] ran and financed operations in Afganistan against the Russians. On the other hand, many in Pakistan do not forgive the terrorists for the murder of people in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sympathies are divided. We just don’t know to what extent the provision of Pakistani intelligence which does seem to have been significant in picking up other terrorists was significant in this case. Perhaps Pakistani concerns about this compound were communicated. It does appear that there had been no positive evidence identifying Bin Laden in the compound, but the build up of circumstantial evidence over a considerable period led to the decision to mount this operation. In the event it turned out that the information was spot on.
There are certainly questions for Pakistan to answer, notwithstanding the attempts they have made to clear terrorist sympathisers from the military and intelligence services.
Pakistan needs to be encouraged to continue to come off the fence with regard to terrorism rather than concentrating mainly on what they seem to regard as their priority, their fear of and antipathy towards India.
Jeremy Bonner at 2:
I suspect not one whit. The terrorist king is dead. Long live the terrorist king.
Someone asked me last night why I thought it took the Federals 10 years to get Bin Laden. I replied because he had money, an organization, and a land mass. And his assassination changes nothing about any of this. There is still money, an organization and a land mass, and now the #2 guy will become the #1 guy. It will take the Federals another 10 years to get him. And on, and on, and on.
In the meantime, expect blowback and the further decimation of our treasury.
Here is blogger Mike Vanderboegh’s comments today:
[blockquote]Am I glad that the architect of 11 September is gone to terminal virgin appetite disappointment? Certainly. Osama is sleeping with the fishes and I’m sure that the fishes are wondering where their nice neighborhood went to. I remember, however, the immutable Law of Unintended Consequences. Jihadis all over the world, and some in this country, will consider this an outrage and seek to avenge it. There is a multi-sided war of civilizations going on here with various collectivist sides, Osama as titular head of one side, Obama another, at war with liberty, Western civilization and the concept of God-given inalienable rights represented by the Founders’ Republic.
Keep your powder dry.
Osama’s body may be moldering in the sea, but his damned soul goes marching on.[/blockquote]
Vanderboegh doesn’t mention, though he surely believes it, that the “war with liberty” began with Bush Jr. and his neocons. But we can be assured that that war will continue to be waged, whichever party is at the helm there at Rome on the Potomac.
True, there are always consequences, and there probably will be reprisal attacks. But then, if we let adverse consequences put us off, we would never do anything. Well done to the US SF who carried out the operation.
Its not the end or the beginning of the end, as Winston Churchill might have said, but its an important step and it had to be done.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to those who lost loved ones in the 911 attacks, and in related attacks around the world.
1. I don’t think President Obama has committed an impeachable offense. I actually think the President has fairly wide latitude to exercise his power as CinC. Much more than Sarah I expect. That doesn’t mean the President is wise to do so.
2. In order for Congress to make its power to declare war meaningful, it would have to impeach a President over a war. Otherwise, the president will continue to have very broad powers to commit the country to war.
3. The operation in Pakistan was well within the power of the President. It bothers me not at all that the US executed this operation in Pakistan without prior notification. Others may disagree, but success has inoculated Obama. This highlights the difficulty of constraining the President’s war powers. Who is going to suggest impeaching Obama in the current environment? No one. So even if you think he did something unconstitutional, there is nothing you can do about it. One more president is added to the long list of Presidential military actions.
One day a President will initiate action, on his own, against an enemy that can actually fight back. At that time I hope and pray that the Congress will finally find the spine to defend and restore its constitutional prerogatives. Until such time Presidents will continue to act as semi-dictators with the power to decide unilateraly when and where the armed forces of the United States are deployed. Maybe he will even use that power to keep himself in office and dispose of Congress.
Thanks be to God!
One wonders, though, how much difference it will make in practice.
I don’t feel compelled to pray for his soul. Not at all.
But I think we should pray extra hard for our troops. The terrorists are going to go nuts claiming him as a martyr and our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq may face more attacks.
We should also be on guard at home.
If the Al Qaeda network has a terrorist plot within the USA that is ‘ready to go’ and just waiting for the ‘go ahead,’ then that plot will most likely be executed in retaliation for the loss of bin Laden.
A great weight off all of our shoulders.
I didn’t realize how much until I heard this news.
September 11, 2001. We remember.
God bless America, and God bless our allies.
Supposedly, he was killed by an American operation. Somebody will be getting a promotion!!! (Or at least a medal!!)
I thought I would be happy at the news, but I just can’t be happy about someone’s death. I am surprised at myself, I guess I do have a little bit of compassion for my enemies!! (shame on me!)
This is a great day. Regardless of what has happened or what will happen, it cannot be said that the United States of America has not persevered in dealing with Public Enemy Number One.
Recchip — it is mixed for me as well. I am so relieved and I *am* happy, as happy as people must have been when they learned of Hitler’s death.
But my *second* thought was that Osama bin Laden has met God now — and my heart can’t help but quail over that.
We are all terrible sinners, and my heart grieves over his wasteful, murderous, evil life.
All faiths aren’t the same — and what one believes really matters.
But I am so happy for citizens of the world. He was never ever going to stop because his faith and foundational worldview precluded that.
Sarah, you hit it on the head. I thought of UBL being in front of a Just God and I shuddered!!!
What a fantastic speech by the President. Only a few didactic sentences, but deeply deeply gratifying overall. I was actually afraid that he would “be Obama” but instead he was the President of our country.
Thank God — a good moment for our country and for him.
Sarah and recchip, y’all are better Christians than I. I’ve been imagining the look on his face when the 72 virgins don’t show up and the Lord Jesus does! 🙂
But can you imagine, Teatime, the recognition that one has lived one’s entire life in self-deceit? That it was all false from beginning to end?
It’s a horrible thought.
It was an awful speech, Sarah. Badly written, and badly delivered.
carl
6. One wag on a milblog has already quipped that AG Holder is already assembling a task force to insure that all of UBL’s constitutional rights were respected.
Hi Carl — I disagree.
Sarah: “All faiths aren’t the same—and what one believes really matters.”
Wow, that’s for sure, but it’s a very hard point to get across to many of today’s students, who can take wanting to be “nice,” tolerant, and diversity-embracing to an extreme. But I do my best.
We’ll see. We are about to meet the devil we didn’t know. L
I am just getting the news after sunrise in Cairo. Yesterday the salafists were staging a lye-in in the streets before the coptic cathedral over their anger at women converting. The situation was ugly. I wonder what reaction the Egyptians will have as the diocese of Egypt meets in synod this morning. I will not be dancing in the streets. I remember a liberal Stanford professor telling a hall of alums that Bin Laden was really like a modern day Robin Hood charming the oppressed by out witting the high tech west from a cave. I put up my hand to ask if the original Robin Hood was worth 150 million and had a father who married and divorced more women than 3 or 4 Henry VIII’s. But the prof wouldn’t take my question. I will say morning prayer and think more of what it means to follow the true Prince of Peace.
Sarah, in #12,
I don’t have an ounce of sympathy for the leaders of such self-deception, as bin Laden was. They have fully earned what they face at the hour of their deaths. He used his family name and money to craft a message of intense hatred and effect terror. I might have a tiny bit of sympathy for their deluded followers, but not much.
I don’t like what I’m seeing on TV, though. Crowds of frat boy types outside the White House chanting and singing stupid songs. I hope Americans don’t rise to the level of tackiness that some unfortunately have perfected. Keep it classy, please, folks.
Looks like a spontaneous patriotic gathering of jubilation. I don’t see the frat-boy stuff. I don’t think it’s going to be possible for us to all be restrained and reserved, any more than when Hitler was known to be dead.
Sarah,
You’re not hearing the “nananana, hey-hey” song? And seeing the stupid faces they’re making into the camera? A few are waving Obama campaign signs, too. Tacky. Very few of them are over the age of 22 so I’m wondering if this is staged by the Young Dems or something.
Teatime — it’s all over:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/05/bin-laden-death-cheers-fireworks-los-angeles.html
Looks like the lake of fire has a new resident. My God have mercy on me for saying this. But for Jesus Christ I would be heading there myself.
YIC,
NW Bob
Obama’s speech was too long and not his best. But it doesn’t really matter. He could have delivered the speech in pig latin while wearing a toga. It still wouldn’t have mattered. Bin Laden is DEAD. That matters.
I haven’t felt this good in ages. Time for a good cigar and some champagne. I wonder if this is maybe a little how people felt on V-J Day?
watching all the people on tv singing and “partying” if you will reminded me of what the people did in the middle east after 9/11, they to were dancing, rejoicing, “partying”.
I don’t see how being happy at the death of anyone is something to be proud of.
I do feel some relief but i dare not and hope not it to be joy.
usama a.
RE: “But for Jesus Christ I would be heading there myself.”
So true. That’s what I was getting at earlier. But for Christ *all* of us “have fully earned what they face at the hour of their deaths.”
RE: “I haven’t felt this good in ages.”
Word. I have mixed feelings, but a part of those is such joy and thankfulness. I am so happy for the families of 911, for our troops and the intelligence communities, for all of us as citizens, and for people the world over.
Crowds at Ground Zero and Times Square now.
One of the reporters mentioned talking with a young man who was in fourth grade when 911 hit — he was crying tonight at Ground Zero.
This is a big deal for Americans. The leader of the organization with which we have been at war is dead.
I *do* feel awe and sorrow for his life and now eternity. But I am also so glad and thankful.
I don’t rejoice in his death but I do feel a calm satisfaction that something as been made right in the universe.
I won’t deceive myself into thinking this means we are safe. Another will take his place and those who love peace and justice and freedome will again be compelled to take up arms against those who embrace terror.
I pray for all those in the fight whether on the ground or behind the scenes. We fight because to put it simply the soul of the world is at stake.
#25 Sami,
I agree. That’s exactly what I thought of when I saw this foolishness, too.
The US has been at war with al-Qaeda my entire adult life, whether it wanted to admit it at the time or not when the war first started (I am 30 years old and was watching TV when the first WTC bomb went off).
That the man behind two decades of attacks on the US is now dead thanks the the US military is not a fact I will regret or not find a sense of relief that an era is over.
Hmm, I’m not sure. I want to see the birth certificate first. 🙂
May he become nameless now that he is dead…May God give those who have died by this man’s efforts, peace. Those who for the rest of their lives will suffer because of him, peace. Those living under tyranny because of him , of any type, freedom and peace. And may the world now be a more peaceful place.
Well, the world is certainly better off with him dead rather than alive. I don’t regret his death in the slightest. I don’t feel celebratory, though… more the sense of weary satisfaction that comes from finally completing a distasteful but necessary task.
The news story I saw said that the crowd at the White House was singing “The Star-Spangled Banner” and “We Are the Champions.” The first one is absolutely appropriate at this time… the second one, I dunno.
#8 Sarah says:
It’s unwise, of course, to speculate on the fate of anyone’s eternal soul… but in this case, mercy could be almost as terrible as judgment. Can you imagine what it would be like to be suddenly gifted with a conscience — not just a normal human conscience, but one unfettered by fallen human limitations — and then to have 9/11 on it? Can you imagine what that would feel like?
I saw the news this morning. Bin Laden has seen God as He really is, not as Islam imagines. News reports say one woman was killed when she was used as a shield. That’s emblematic of al Qaeda: ferocity and a total lack of decency and honor. The body has been thrown into the sea. Very appropriate.
I didn’t see the celebration in DC last night. News reports say there were Marines there smoking celebratory cigars. Semper fi.
Richard A. Menees, if you come back, please tell us about reaction in Cairo. I will say special prayers for the safety of all Egyptian Christians.
Celebrations erupted all over the US — twitter feeds were carrying questions about where to celebrate.
One of the reporters interviewed several at Washington DC — two were young ex military/current military [she in the Navy, he former Marine]. Boy did they look young. Several others were parents of dead veterans, and Army wives.
The Ground Zero celebration looked older.
http://www.dnainfo.com/20110502/midtown/new-yorkers-head-ground-zero-celebrate-bin-ladens-death
I hadn’t realized how much relief all of us as a nation would feel.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13506251&page=1
I wonder if it is not time to cut Pakistan loose to live or die on their own. With allies like this, who needs enemies? We have poured countless millions into Pakistan, and to what end? And I wonder if it is not time to cut Afghanistan loose at the same time. We should be helping the rebels in Libya who are showing the courage and purpose to do their own fighting and it is precisely these we should support, not those for whom we must do their fighting. If they are not willing to fight for their own freedom, can we succeed if we take up their burden which they will not lift themselves?
Al Quaeda and the Taliban have succeeded PRECISELY because those populations which it has infested are not willing to fight back, not willing to spend their own blood first. Larry
For myself, I am more than anything glad for good news. This country could use more of that right now.
Hurrah for the military and intelligence services especially.
#38, reports are that al Qaeda is strong among the Libyan rebels. I do not know, nor does anyone as far as I can see, what the “right side” in Libya may be. Maybe there isn’t one.
Fr. Harmon, amen to that. Go Navy!
I just read that one woman was used as a human shield by our adversaries and was shot dead. I feel bad about that…the terror of that situation is so palpable.
#21, I’m not into tacky displays, either; but, in some cases, do we have armchair pacifists all of a sudden cheering the success of a military operation?!! That would be ironic, but predictable.
I’m so happy for the 9/11 families. And deeply proud of the compatriots of Seal Team Six!!! GO NAVY!! 🙂 Not to mention all of our men and women in uniform and the intelligence communities who have positively contributed to these operations, especially the fallen. Prayers for eternal rest; their sacrifice was not in vain.
Of course it is good news. But terrorism is not ended and the overreach of the American security services will continue to go un-checked. The reach of Homeland Security is truly frightening. Do I feel safer going through an airport? No, just violated.
I am confused. Carl and Sarah have been spending the last few months explaining to me that in order for a US President to commit US forces to an operation in a foreign country that Congressional approval and a declaration of war on Pakistan would have been necessary, failing which it would be essential for him to be impeached in order to preserve the US Constitution and democracy. Oh well, I suppose it all depends.
Personally I am grateful; we in the UK lost our own nationals in the Kings Cross bombings in London on 7/7 2005. Friends and family of those I know were lost in 9/11 among the British people working in and around the World Trade Center. We are grateful to the US President and US forces who bravely undertook this operation and thankful for all those who have been working behind the scenes to keep us safe, as Mr Cameron said today. It puts in perspective the decision by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to postpone yesterday a proposed honeymoon rumored to have been in Jordan. Although apparently no one was told of of the intended action, it may be that a security warning was sent.
The danger continues in a movement which has spread in the last few years worldwide as a sort of franchise. However the removal of the founder and perpetrator of much of the murder is a huge blow, and makes the world a safer place. If anything though now is a time for increased vigilance, a time to keep after Al Zawiri and Bin Laden’s commanders and to keep the pressure up on the other break off franchisees, including making sure that the Bin Laden fortune is not allowed to pass to terrorists. I would caution against over the top celebrations like that from NY last night which is being broadcast on Arab channels and could well feed and antagonise opinion in the Middle East. It is a time for gratitude, thanks and appreciation for those working to keep us safe.
Prayers in particular for Westerners and Christians in the region who are particularly vulnerable at this time.
We need to also bear in mind Pakistan at the moment. President Obama made it clear that the Pakistan government had been supportive both in logistics and intelligence, although presumably for security reasons not advised of this operation. Yet I have heard criticism today that Pakistan had this character under their noses. The government of Pakistan is in a difficult position – criticised in the West for the presence of Bin Laden and said to have done nothing about him, and criticised at home and in the region for cooperating with the US and perhaps providing the intelligence which led to this operation and for another country mounting a military operation on its territory. I don’t see how information like the absense of telephone lines and internet connections to the Bin Laden compound which tipped people off to the possibility of terrorists could have been obtained without Pakistani cooperation, but something which perhaps being too open about puts them at risk, with a former government minister and others recently assassinated.
Many thanks to the US military and government.
RE: “Carl and Sarah have been spending the last few months explaining to me that in order for a US President to commit US forces to an operation in a foreign country that Congressional approval and a declaration of war on Pakistan would have been necessary, failing which it would be essential for him to be impeached in order to preserve the US Constitution and democracy.”
Not at all. Permission by Congress was freely given for America to pursue and bring to justice those who were responsible for the 9-11 terror act. A part of that mission has now been fulfilled and it was nicely Constitutional, not that you would care about such trifles. My only quibble with Congress’s appropriate authorization of use of military back in 2001 was that I would have liked a formal declaration of war declared upon our enemies. But Congress’s authorization sufficed.
Further, you’ve muddled up those with whom you’ve been arguing over Libya. Neither Carl nor I called for the impeachment of Obama — you’ve got us confused with a couple of other commenters.
So to summarize, unlike those who loudly proclaimed it [i]An Absolute Moral Duty[/i] for us to use military might to defend civilians threatened by murderous thugs in other countries, Carl and I have been consistent in this issue regarding America’s use of military force.
And yes, you are confused.
But how nice of you to thrust an off-topic comment about Libya and political arguments into this wonderful thread on Osama’s death.
Oh dear – I seem to have hit a nerve.
Libya in contrast had no such authorization or declaration and I have called for Obama’s impeachment for violating the US Constitution. See, often the ends are important but the ways and means even more so. The President is supposed to be subject to and operate the laws of the land one of which is the US Constitution. It goes to the integrity of our government and its legitimacy. Of course Obama doesn’t really care about that so long as he can slickly move around or ignore them.
Perhaps PM can better appreciate this conversation from “A Man for All Seasons”
[blockquote]William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
William Roper: Yes, I’d cut down every law in England to do that!
Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned ’round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man’s laws, not God’s! And if you cut them down, and you’re just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake![/blockquote]
“It puts in perspective the decision by the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge to postpone yesterday a proposed honeymoon rumored to have been in Jordan. Although apparently no one was told of of the intended action, it may be that a security warning was sent”.
Smart moves all around–it’s my understanding that this news has been “sat on” for at least a week–releasing it at the time would have, amongst other things, marred Britain’s and others’ happiness; and WORSE, way worse, made the royal wedding, etc. a huge security risk.
And yes, “vigilance” is a most important word. I personally have no problem with Homeland Security or otherwise “violating” me if it will save other lives.
So, does the issue now become when Eric Holder will start looking at the SEALS’ violation of UBL’s constitutional rights? While that seems far fetched, if it happens I won’t be surprised.
RE: “I seem to have hit a nerve.”
Nah — just demonstrated ignorance.
Perhaps we can discuss Women’s Ordination now as well, along with why Obama should not be re-elected and whether the Lockerbie bomber should have been deported.
Ed–please no and stay on topic!
As I said earlier, it is time to cut Pakistan loose. There is no creddible reason for their not knowing OSB was there. If we could figure it out, Pakistan couldn’t?
This alone will almost guarantee the Obama will get reelected. this is one for the history books. To be sure, there is already a successor to OBL Who can doubt that? But I wonder if all the activity in the Islamic world for new freedoms does not at last spell the end of OSB-like terrrorists, since they require secrecy as well a fanaticism. Fundamentalism will remain, as it always does, among the powerless and frightened because it grants a security the world itself cannot give, but the power to vote must be the kiss of death to the Moslem Mafia.
There are times when justice is swift. The, sometimes, it takes a little time.
#52 Larry Morse:
Well, I’m an Obama supporter, so I hope he does get re-elected; but I seriously doubt this has put it in the bag. Useful publicity, no doubt, but we’re still far enough out from the election that the effects will be swamped by whatever hits the news in mid-to-late 2012.
And realistically, as much as I was not a supporter of GWB, I doubt Obama did anything differently here than Bush did or would have; it’s just chance that it happened to come up on Obama’s watch rather than Bush’s.
#52–Since unemployment will still be at 9% + in 2012, there will still be a $1T + deficit, gas will still be above $4 a gallon and Obama will be fighting tooth and nail to keep social entitlement progams from any changes, I wouldn’t be so sure this will have any effect on his re-election. And if something else happens in the US before November of next year no one will care about this.
On the one hand this probably doesn’t change anything (either with al-Qaeda, the Taliban, our politics, or the 2012 election). On the other hand, here’s to our boys who got the job done (our men and women in uniform). As much as I would like to say that our ten year national nightmare is over it undoubtedly is not. This is probably more like the V-E Day of our times, a great victory but with much sad work yet to do. But I say party on, young people in the streets; tomorrow there will be problems aplenty to face, but we can always remember we had today.
Pageantmaster,
I agree with most of your comments but I think you’re being a bit too generous in regard to Pakistan. I’ve read articles stating that this mansion in which they found bin Laden was built in 2005 supposedly by one of the penniless couriers.
Now, particularly in that part of the world, a mansion being built (especially one that is cut off from communications) gets the attention of residents and officials. Either they suspected and didn’t investigate or they knew and didn’t want to be involved.
When I lived right on the southern U.S. border, the local joke was that the mansions in this otherwise poor area were owned by either doctors or drug cartel members. And it was true. The local offices of the FBI, DEA, and others kept a very close eye on bank accounts, property purchases/construction, and other key clues because this was the best way of gaining insight and evidence on suspected criminal activity and cartel kingpins.
Pakistanis are not stupid;I’m sure these things are red flags for them, as well, when they’re serious about investigations and surveillance. Bin Laden felt confident enough to arrange for the building of a mansion for himself, if reports are correct, quite close to a Pakistani military installation. We need to stop sending money to Pakistan and rethink that relationship.
#58 Teatime2
I think we really don’t know enough to say what the position of Pakistan was. No doubt there are elements in the military and intelligence with links and sympathies dating back to the days when they [and the US] ran and financed operations in Afganistan against the Russians. On the other hand, many in Pakistan do not forgive the terrorists for the murder of people in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sympathies are divided. We just don’t know to what extent the provision of Pakistani intelligence which does seem to have been significant in picking up other terrorists was significant in this case. Perhaps Pakistani concerns about this compound were communicated. It does appear that there had been no positive evidence identifying Bin Laden in the compound, but the build up of circumstantial evidence over a considerable period led to the decision to mount this operation. In the event it turned out that the information was spot on.
There are certainly questions for Pakistan to answer, notwithstanding the attempts they have made to clear terrorist sympathisers from the military and intelligence services.
Pakistan needs to be encouraged to continue to come off the fence with regard to terrorism rather than concentrating mainly on what they seem to regard as their priority, their fear of and antipathy towards India.
You know, among all the large issues, one small thought occurs to me:
Somewhere out there is a SEAL who is never going to pay for another drink as long as he lives.
Jeremy Bonner at 2:
I suspect not one whit. The terrorist king is dead. Long live the terrorist king.
Someone asked me last night why I thought it took the Federals 10 years to get Bin Laden. I replied because he had money, an organization, and a land mass. And his assassination changes nothing about any of this. There is still money, an organization and a land mass, and now the #2 guy will become the #1 guy. It will take the Federals another 10 years to get him. And on, and on, and on.
In the meantime, expect blowback and the further decimation of our treasury.
Here is blogger Mike Vanderboegh’s comments today:
[blockquote]Am I glad that the architect of 11 September is gone to terminal virgin appetite disappointment? Certainly. Osama is sleeping with the fishes and I’m sure that the fishes are wondering where their nice neighborhood went to. I remember, however, the immutable Law of Unintended Consequences. Jihadis all over the world, and some in this country, will consider this an outrage and seek to avenge it. There is a multi-sided war of civilizations going on here with various collectivist sides, Osama as titular head of one side, Obama another, at war with liberty, Western civilization and the concept of God-given inalienable rights represented by the Founders’ Republic.
Keep your powder dry.
Osama’s body may be moldering in the sea, but his damned soul goes marching on.[/blockquote]
Vanderboegh doesn’t mention, though he surely believes it, that the “war with liberty” began with Bush Jr. and his neocons. But we can be assured that that war will continue to be waged, whichever party is at the helm there at Rome on the Potomac.
Chalmers Johnson on “blowback”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_Johnson#The_Blowback_series
Ron Paul on the “law of opposities”:
http://antiwar.com/paul/?articleid=9672
True, there are always consequences, and there probably will be reprisal attacks. But then, if we let adverse consequences put us off, we would never do anything. Well done to the US SF who carried out the operation.
Its not the end or the beginning of the end, as Winston Churchill might have said, but its an important step and it had to be done.
Our thoughts and prayers go out to those who lost loved ones in the 911 attacks, and in related attacks around the world.
Ross #59, you have obviously mind-melded with my ex-military spouse.
🙂
[44] Pageantmaster
Just for the record.
1. I don’t think President Obama has committed an impeachable offense. I actually think the President has fairly wide latitude to exercise his power as CinC. Much more than Sarah I expect. That doesn’t mean the President is wise to do so.
2. In order for Congress to make its power to declare war meaningful, it would have to impeach a President over a war. Otherwise, the president will continue to have very broad powers to commit the country to war.
3. The operation in Pakistan was well within the power of the President. It bothers me not at all that the US executed this operation in Pakistan without prior notification. Others may disagree, but success has inoculated Obama. This highlights the difficulty of constraining the President’s war powers. Who is going to suggest impeaching Obama in the current environment? No one. So even if you think he did something unconstitutional, there is nothing you can do about it. One more president is added to the long list of Presidential military actions.
carl
One day a President will initiate action, on his own, against an enemy that can actually fight back. At that time I hope and pray that the Congress will finally find the spine to defend and restore its constitutional prerogatives. Until such time Presidents will continue to act as semi-dictators with the power to decide unilateraly when and where the armed forces of the United States are deployed. Maybe he will even use that power to keep himself in office and dispose of Congress.