Anglicans in the United States who want to become Roman Catholic will have a formal structure to oversee the conversion starting New Year’s Day.
Catholic Cardinal Donald Wuerl announced Tuesday the equivalent of a diocese for converts who want to retain some of their Anglican heritage.
“…the equivalent of a diocese for converts who want to retain some of their Anglican heritage.”
“Some,” or “just a little bit for now”? And, just what little bit for now? Can my married son become an aspirant for the priesthood in this “equivalent of a diocese?” Can my daughter be an acolyte or altar server? How long before tacky guitar-strumming music slips in to replace Anglican hymnody? Do I get wine with that bread? Can I bring my Baptist friends along for Communion? Do I have to pay for my very own copy of the Roman Catechism? Do I have to say that I believe all of it? Details, please.
How nice of the Romans to be helping us out in our time of need.
Ralph
[blockquote] “Some,†or “just a little bit for now�[/blockquote] Probably some.
[blockquote] And, just what little bit for now?[/blockquote]That’s up to Rome. You join their church, you play by their rules.
[blockquote] Can my married son become an aspirant for the priesthood in this “equivalent of a diocese?â€[/blockquote]Maybe. But I wouldn’t wait too long on that if he is so inclined. This may be a limited time offer.
[blockquote] Can my daughter be an acolyte or altar server?[/blockquote]Why not? It’s allowed in almost all of the Roman parishes.
[blockquote] How long before tacky guitar-strumming music slips in to replace Anglican hymnody?[/blockquote]5-4-3-2-1…
[blockquote] Do I get wine with that bread?[/blockquote]Wine and bread are not served at mass. Maybe you are thinking of coffee hour.
[blockquote] Can I bring my Baptist friends along for Communion?[/blockquote]No.
[blockquote] Do I have to pay for my very own copy of the Roman Catechism?[/blockquote]Not unless you want one.
[blockquote] Do I have to say that I believe all of it?[/blockquote]Yes.
[blockquote] How nice of the Romans to be helping us out in our time of need. [/blockquote]We had some experience with their “help” too back in the 16th century. The result is the UGRCC.
A fairly peculiar source for the news of the Anglican Ordinariate in the US.
At this site:
http://ordinariateportal.wordpress.com/
as at the time of my posting this the first 5 entries give a good deal of background and detail.
More info available from Rocco:
http://whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2011/11/in-new-year-new-ordinariate.html
“How long before tacky guitar-strumming music slips in to replace Anglican hymnody?”
Gee Ralph, since you are obviously not high Anglo Catholic, where is it that you are that it is avoided in ANGLICAN churches. Every ACNA service I’ve been too, and most TEC services outside of my old haunt in Western Michigan (priest has since been sent packing by revisionist bishop) have bad praise music. Nothing particularly Catholic about that anymore.
“Can I bring my Baptist friends along for Communion?”
No, thankfully, as that was another 1970s TEC innovation that was wrongheaded. Nicene Creed should be a minimal standard. Most Baptists I know don’t consider me baptized, since it was done with a half cup of water when I was 2 weeks old.
The Ordinariate is aimed at Anglo Catholics, Ralph, not broad churchman. We agree with probably 95% of the teachings of the Catholic Church. We agree with, maybe, 10% of the teachings of the modern TEC- the official Anglican entity in the US. Of course, in ACNA it varies, there are still a few Anglo Catholic dioceses- although I don’t note any inclination on the part of ACNA to expand them in either size or number in their expansion with new geographic dioceses. I may remain Anglo Catholic for the rest of my life, but I may also outlive any vestige of it that is outside the Catholic Church.
I’m going to try to set something straight for those who decry the use of guitars. First, guitars can add something very beautiful to a service, provided they’re used properly, and provided the music is appropriate to the time and place. Second, small missions (particularly the startups) and parishes very often do not have the financial resources to buy an organ (or even a keyboard with organ options) or piano, and therefore they must depend on what they’ve got…..which often means a guitar or two. Or, they do without music altogether.
I am a guitarist and singer……and am also the cantor when I’m needed to perform that function. We are a small mission church with a very small music department (4 of us) and the music budget to match. I play the Service Music, and occasionally (when the situation calls for it) I do a special piece from a folder which contains appropriate (not prayer and praise!) music for the occasion. I don’t like electric guitars (they’re an abomination), nor do I use amplification, except when outdoors at a parish picnic.
So, yes, guitars are perfectly acceptable when they’re used properly. And we don’t use prayer and praise music at all.
And we do have an organ (with three volunteer organists) and piano in the sanctuary.
And our diocese is predominantly Anglo Catholic, by the way.
Just as an FYI the ancient canons say musical instruments are a no-no in church. This was universally observed for approximately the first 1500 yrs or so. I am not sure when people began ignoring the rule but I don’t think it was much before the 16th century. For the most part the Eastern churches still observe those canons.
Those of a certain age remember the beautiful music of Redeemer, Houston from the 70s. The eclectic mix of styles and instrumentation spoke to a range of folks. There were classic hymns, scripture songs, and newer songs, some good, some not so good. The pipe organ, mixed with guitars, flutes, cello, and percussion truly made a joyful noise. They were good times. If you wish to deride them as happy-clappy, feel free. Happy is good, although clappy was thought best done gently. 🙂
All that said, there was some genuinely bad music written in Catholic circles at the same time. Think: Wood Hath Hope. There were also nice songs, such as ”We hold the death of the Lord deep in our hearts”. The good news is that resources from more classical sources are replacing the ubiquitous OCP. My parish sings mainly from the Episcopal Hymnal 1940, with classic Catholic hymns from Worship. A fair amount of evidence exists that the silly season for Catholic music is passing.
AO –
Organs in church probably date from the 7th century.
Charles52
The legend of the organ being introduced into western church services by Pope Vitalian (657-72) is of doubtful authenticity. The Catholic Encyclopedia of 1913 does however date the introduction somewhat earlier than I had believed, putting it no later than the 12-13th centuries.
AO
Indeed, i took my comment from a quici wiki check.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_(music)#Sporting_organs
But a more recent Catholic Encyclopaedia cites a church organ in the Winchester Cathedral in the mid 10th century, and others before that.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11297a.htm
Interesting stuff, eh! 🙂
I suppose “some of their Anglican heritage” that they would be allowed to retain does not include the Thirty-Nine Articles!
Pax et Bonum,
Steve
I’d say that this would last for about one generation, and then it would be folded into the Catholic Church without a trace of Anglicanism left.
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would last for about one generation
Maybe, maybe not. We have a generation of experience in 3 very successful parishes (San Antonio, Houston, and Arlington,Tx) that have thrived under liberal and conservative bishops in each diocese, maintaining their distinctive characters.
In any case, it’s an “Ordinariate” because it has its own “Ordinary”, which is to say, a leader who is not the local Latin Rite bishop. Moreover, that Ordinary is expected to make nice with the local conference of bishops, but they answer directly to Rome, the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith, to be precise.
Say Fr. Jeffery Steenson becomes Ordinary for the U.S. group; he’ll need cooperation for ordinations, but that’s about all. The Latin Rite Missal, and the Book of Divine Worship (from the Anglican Use) are currently available (I think another rite is planned, maybe), and he can set up shop about anywhere there’s a priest and people.
It’s an interesting question as to whether married men can be ordained without a prior ordination in a denomination. It hasn’t been a problem, given the flow of men already ordained Episcopalian, Lutheran, and (I think) a Methodist or two.
Can’t see why anyone would opt for guitar accompaniment when an organ and piano are available.
As particular as the Roman Catholic Church is on doctrine I am beginning to see an attraction in the stability of the message being preached. With the Anglican Church blowing all around with the wind it is a blessing to have this option as a possible refuge.
Agreed, Adam 12.
I know I have certainly been recruited as a priest for the Ordinariate.
Really Archer? That is wonderful news