In November, the Diocese of Georgia filed a lawsuit to keep control of Christ Church’s assets, which include a $3 million historic building and an endowment estimated at $2 million to $3 million.
Its claim is based on a church law, adopted in the 1970s, called the Dennis Canon, which says that all parishes hold their property in trust for the diocese. But Christ Church, which was established in 1733, asserts that it has firm legal footing to keep control of its building and property because it existed before the Episcopal denomination, which was established in the United States in 1789.
“That would make the case a pure property case rather than a religious liberty case,” Mr. Witte said. “They will have to argue that their church is closer to the values of the late 18th century” than the Episcopal Church is today.
And that, he added, is “an argument that hasn’t been tested in federal courts.”
And of course the fly in the ointment, the monkey in the wrench, to quote from John McClane, is the fact that this traces back to a grant from the King of England when Georgia was a colony.
Here in Virginia, we have had fishing rights determined by the meaning of “etc.” in a Crown Grant – see http://tinyurl.com/26zsfg
Another point — I’m still surprised the MSM hasn’t run with the connection that so-called conservatives in the Old South are allying with African Churches and the so-called liberals are snootily dismissing them. (I.e., this paragraph:
[blockquote]“I just feel a tremendous loyalty to this church, and I am confused about this situation,†said Frances R. Maclean, 85, a member of Christ Church for 55 years who saw her children baptized and then married in its century-old chapel. “What is this business about Uganda?â€)[/blockquote]
The best legal question may be this. If a hierarchial church does not have a judicial system, then should the secular courts take up the matter as a secular (real estate) issue in the vacuum. Parishes need to find a place for the courts to go and this might just work.
The article should also note, that of the 75 members of Christ Church (Episcopal), most are actually former members of Christ Church that have not been a part of the congregation for years. Many of these have been a part of other Episcopal congregations for years and are now calling themselves members of Christ Church, which they have not attended or been voting members of for several years.
Yes, there are some that attend both services, and these members are an important part of both congregations. They provide both congregations with a sense of reality and constructive disagreement.
#3, indeed, if about 300 people show up and 87% of them voted to affliate with Uganda, then that leaves about 38, not 75, in the minority. This might be another example of journalism and mathematics being like oil and water, but you would think that the reporter would sense a ‘story behind the surface’.
Another story that was missed was the value of each vote in that decision. About 300 voters into $5-6M is $200k or somewhat less. After the lawyers get done though, it will be worth considerably less.
Didn’t Gen Westmoreland say “In order to save the village we had to destroy it?”
Oops, $20k not 10x that…
The Diocese of Georgia cannot afford to win this case. There is no money to maintain historic properties and my guess is that Christ Church would remain a mission for a long time. These are the only cases I have ever seen that cannot be settled.
#6 to cite Chandler, it would be like “pickin’ a fight wid da Tarbaby”.
to #6’s point, the A/C bill alone in the summer months must run in the thousands of dollars. throw in things like wind, hail and flood insurance (I assume they have a mortgage so those coverages would be required) and that’s many more thousands.
I would not assume a mortgage for that old a structure with an endowment of that size.
I hope the congregation will NOT stipulate to anything, since they are dealing with people who frequently change definitions in mid-sentence.
They should especially NOT stipulate to TEC being hierarchical. The word has many meanings among churches, not always referring to laws or land. Guidance, teaching and accountability do not require land or law to constitute hierarchy. Some hierarchical churches (e.g. APA) require parishes to own their own places of worship, and would not want courts to overrule them because of this label.
And what definition of hierarchy does TEC meet? Local bishops, House of Bishops (with suffrigans and retired bishops), General Convention, any or all Anglican Communion Instruments, the Pope, ecumenical conferences – who is the top of the hierarchy? DB Beers and I have very different answers – what is the legal answer? Is there a defined legal answer yet?
Reality is that the current congregation of Christ Church is pretty united. Of the purported 75 in the TEC congregation, many of those left Christ Church a long time ago.
Anyone who is unhappy that Christ Church is now an Anglican Church in the Province of Uganda has 12 other TEC parishes from which to choose. None of these parishes are so full on Sunday morning that there might be no place to sit. Savannah is a relatively small town, so anyone in the area has several choices within easy distance. They run the theological gamut from the conservative to the liberal.
Christ Church did not leave to become Rastafarian or Scientologist. We still worship the same way we always have with the same prayer book. TEC by its own statements wants to do a new thing, and see with new eyes. Well, we are quite happy with the old thing, and seeing with the same old eyes that have served faithful Christians for 2,000 years.
Life is full of irony, one of which is that Christ Church left TEC in order to stay in the same place theologically. Bishop Louttit may now have a somewhat smaller flock, but the Emmaus House, mission trips to Belize, Russia, Uganda, and Mexico and the all of the things that Parishioners of Christ Church have done in the past will continue.
The Diocese is in a lose/lose position in its law suit. If they win, the congregation that is left will be much smaller, and less able to continue to support the Church and all that it does. If they lose, they lose, and either way friendships and relationships are greatly strained and tested.
Seems a better choice would be for the Diocese to wish us well, with prayers on both sides that we may all see things the same way at some time in the future, that will allow us to again reunite.
#11, The Dicese might wish them well but I don’t believe the PB would go along with the idea; at least not when there is gobs of money involved.
RE: “If they win, the congregation that is left will be much smaller, and less able to continue to support the Church and all that it does.”
But they would have achieved the historic building — which is the brand of the Episcopal church. It’s like giving up the Golden Arches for McDonalds to give up the historic building.
I continue to be amazed that reasserters continue to believe that the national structures of the Episcopal church give a flying fig for the people — they really couldn’t care less.
Until folks grasp those two principles — 1) the historic buildings are the brand and will be defended at all costs and 2) the church buildings can be empty of people and that’s fine for them — then we won’t understand why ECUSA does what it does.
Sarah,
I do not have any illusions about the nature of TEC. TEC today as an organization is run by left wing secular tyrants who use the “credibility” of the Episcopal Church to advance a left wing secular socialist agenda. Their new trilogy is the gay agenda, global warming, and MDG’s.
I completely understand that TEC as an organization, like communist Russia and East Germany, cannot afford to let people leave, because it threatens the very core of the validity of their left wing ideology. It means that we are not willingly buying what they are selling, and therefor must be forced into the theological reeducation camps.
If the focus is on God, and Jesus, and the Bible, and doing good Works, then the fact that Christ Church or Fort Worth or whoever leaves does not matter. It only means that Bishop Louttit has a smaller territory, yet the work for God continues. Most telling is that Schori will allow diocese to negotiate with parishes to leave with the property to become Baptists or bars, but not a fellow Anglican. It is as if the CEO of Ford told potential customers that if they were not going to buy a Lincoln, to buy a Lexus, instead of a Taurus.
TEC today is a left wing secular political organization masquerading as a religion, which is why I am grateful to no longer be part of TEC, regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit.
RE: “It is as if the CEO of Ford told potential customers that if they were not going to buy a Lincoln, to buy a Lexus, instead of a Taurus.”
It is as if the CEO of Ford told potential customers that if they were not going to buy a Lincoln, to buy [anything as long as it was not its closest competitor that had a brand logo that is startlingly similar to the Ford logo.]
Sarah, Henry Ford I was also quoted in a more absolute fashion when he was asked what colors were available for the early Ford cars. He was quoted as saying you can have any color you wish so long as it’s black. That is about as much choice as the PB is passing out; the Episcopal churches go my way or else.