Update from the elves:
Due to technical work (a site transfer), the Anglican Mainstream website is currently offline, thus the link Kendall posted no longer works. We were able to retrieve the article via Google’s cache. See comment #21 below for the text.
Who should be in communion with Canterbury?
a) the vicar in the story who studies to be a “white witch” or
b) +Martyn Minns
The question of who is ‘in’ and who is ‘out’ only makes sense to a conservative. It requires an objective criteria by which differentiation can be made. A conservative defines a Christian by what he believes. So he naturally possesses such a criteria.
Liberals – steeped as they are in a post-modern rejection of Truth – possess no such criteria. Liberals instead define Christianity in subjective relational terms. They focus not on Truth but on the a subjective individual relationship with Jesus. Since the concept of Jesus is personally defined (God incarnate, great teacher, Sufi healer, radical revolutionary, Roman bastard child all being equally acceptable answers), this essentially defines a Christian as any man who says he is a Christian. There might be some Liberal genuflection to the Creed, but even here the meaning of the Creed will be self-determined.
To declare someone “out” is to violate the very essence of the liberal faith. That’s why liberals are fine with keeping conservatives around, but only so long as conservatives have no power. Conservatives will immediately establish those boundaries. But the absence of boundaries constitutes the beginning of liberal religion. And the deletion of existing boundaries constitutes its principle moral task.
carl
Marvellous – all the qualifications to be a priest in TEC. Would you like him?
Original article is [url=http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=221381&contentPK=19515693&folderPk=103586&pNodeId=221386]here[/url] which suggests that he had difficulties with his Bishop although he does not specify them. One can imagine.
Carl, I do believe that is the most trenchant explanation of the differences that I have read in a long time.
the man seems mentally unwell and unable to grasp a level of theology I would demand from the youngest members of the Sunday school. Were I bishop of his diocese he would never stand at another altar untill he had renounced his sins and pledged his life solely to Jesus. Has he never read the creed for goodness sake!!!
#6: According to ‘Cricockford’s Clerical Directory of English Clergy”, the Rev Horseman studied at the evangelical Trinity Seminary in Bristol when George Carey was principal there – but I doubt he was typical of ordinands there …
Doing 250 funerals a year sounds deadly in every sense, but as the Jewish joke would put it, it’s a living. Let the dead bury the dead.
But how can this English version of Oakwyse hold an Anglican license?
that’s ‘Crockford’s”….
#7 I am told that funerals are an opportunity for care and provide a remarkable opportunity for quiet evangelism by those who do many. Funerals are attended by the living.
#9 exactly- and if he had been dealt with a stripped of his collar- the poor woman in the article who was delighted with his service – might have been led to a true priest and found the life of the Gospel. One poisonous apple causes much damage to the barrell
Agreed – there is some question of his actual status and licence and it does sound as if he has had some problems with the Church authorities; then again it is claimed that he provides cover for other vicars locally. If he wants to provide wiccan or jedi knight funerals I do not see that as compatible with doing so holding himself out as a CofE clergyman.
If the link worked, I could determine what you’re talking about. I clicked here, and also on my bookmarked Anglican Mainstream link, and got a page offering to sell me the domain. Oops. Did they forget to renew? Have they been hacked?
Hey Katherine, I am having the same problem. Elves? Any thoughts?
Not an Elf but try my link in #4 above which I got before the crash to the original newspaper link
Hey Katherine… you may wish to try the alternate link provided by PageantMaster in post #4. If I understand PM correctly it is basically the same story.
This, from a few years ago, is from the same diocese.
http://www.pfc.org.uk/node/733
It makes this particular cleric look quite ordinary.
Apostasy, the 5th “Horseman” of the Apocalypse.
Well according to the Living Church the ABC says 2/3’s of the Bishops are IN for Lambeth…
http://www.livingchurch.org/news/news-updates/2008/1/15/archbishop-to-announce-lambeth-plans
This fine gentlemen should do the honorable thing and follow his conscious where it already is i.e. outside of Anglicanism. He would have no trouble being incardinated into any of the many churches in the independent sacramental movement (The Liberal Catholic Church seems right up his metaphysical alley.) Let him go and do good in a place and in a way that will not cause scandal and confusion. As it stands, he is riding the coat tails of a faith he has abandined.
Hi all, I was offline much of yesterday, so sorry I wasn’t able to help with the link problem. Anglican Mainstream has been upgrading their site, which is probably why the strange message, I don’t think they’ve been hacked. Let me see what I can find out…
In the meantime, use the link helpfully supplied by Pageantmaster:
[url=http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=221381&contentPK=19515693&folderPk=103586&pNodeId=221386]link here[/url]
Via Google’s Cache, here is the article from Anglican Mainstream:
The CoE: Who’s in? Who’s out? Who decides?
January 15th, 2008 Posted in Uncategorized
Part of the reason for the polarization between the various branches of the CoE, including the increasingly ‘diverse’ evangelical wing, is that there is a fundamental difference of perception: some feel the CoE is essentially on track, while others are deeply worried by what they perceive as the present status quo and the lack of moral and theological boundaries and issues like do we actually believe the words of the Nicene creed? For them, this is not about who is in, but can we say and act upon the fact that some are out? At the end of the day it is at least in part an information issue. Who knows what? And what does it mean for her/him and what will s/he do about it?
The following comes from my local paper, The Bristol Evening Post. The reporter obviously likes our long-white-haired Anglican priest with excellent people skills and a Wiccan degree. Indeed, if you live in the West Country you might be able to meet him in person when he is doing cover for your vicar. His ’simple gospel message’ is one of love and hope, a belief in Jesus (Christianity is one way to God) and affirmation of the next life – ‘even if it’s us becoming chemicals in a tree’.
[blockquote]12 January 2008
The Reverend Chris Horseman – North Somerset’s Rent-a-Rev – is as happy to conduct ceremonies for humanists and pagans as he is for Christians but has the vicar gone a creed too far by enrolling on a White Witch degree course? Melanie Greenwood reports
The Rev Chris Horseman, opens the door of his bungalow, and shoos off a jet black cat from a chair. At first sight he doesn’t look like any vicar you’ve ever seen, with his almost waist-length hair, Doc Marten boots and, as you listen, you can see why conventional clergy, might be wondering just where this North Somerset Anglican vicar is heading.He has a degree in Wiccan which is, apparently, a white witch qualification.This was obtained by studying via email from the Californian-based College of Sacred Mists, which is headed by Lady Raven Moonshadow.The 20-a-month tuition fees cover religions from Paleolithic to Roman times, looking at early Christianity and why witchcraft went underground, as well as looking at herbalism and beneficial spell-making.However, his studies were not without incident. The 53-year-old explains: “After I enrolled on the Wiccan course, I was called in to see the rural Dean, who asked some very sensible questions, but then wanted to know if I’d ever been involved in any satanic rituals?“As if. Being a white witch is about doing good – being in harmony with nature. I am a spiritualist humanist and the only thing I preach is to love one another.“Witchcraft and witches have been attacked by the church for centuries and it’s misguided. It’s practical magic, working with herbs, stories and reiki. I’m also training to be a Druid, which goes well with my pagan interests.†…So does it matter whether his beliefs fit in strictly with the Anglican church?“I don’t want to be portrayed as anti-Christian but don’t want to say Christianity is the only way,†he says. “I believe in religious tolerance, in life and the power to create, to nurture and to live beyond grief.“I believe in Jesus and in life after death, even if it’s us becoming chemicals in a tree.“I suppose I try to be real and to answer people’s need for spirituality. Mine is a simple gospel message – joining together in the hope of making a better world.“I enrolled on the Wiccan course because I am drawn to paganism. I like the idea of a natural order, about not being separated from nature and it’s very much an eco-religion.†…(His present work involves being) on the books of 20 funeral directors, as well as providing holiday and sick cover for local vicars.
He says: “There is a need out there and I’ve met someone via the Wiccan course, who lives near Oxford, and wants to set up a ‘rent-a-rev’ service.â€
So with a potential franchise on the horizon, the Mr Horseman, is enjoying studying pre-Christian religions and caring for his wife, while bringing joy to nuptials and comfort to the bereaved.
He’s the reverend I thought most likely to repeat Irish comedian, Dave Allen’s line: ‘Goodbye and may your God go with you’. But he simply says ‘Take care’. And he means it.[/blockquote]
See the article in its entirety [url=http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=221381&contentPK=19515693&folderPk=103586&pNodeId=221386]here[/url]