The faith-based reconciliation presentation which had begun on Saturday continued this evening, led by the Rev. Canon Brian Cox of the Diocese of Los Angeles and the Hon. Joanne O’Donnell of the Diocese of Los Angeles.
O’Donnell reviewed one of the core values of faith-based reconciliation, which is submission to God, the principle of sovereignty.
Acknowledging God’s sovereignty is the single-most important element of faith-based reconciliation, she noted. The basis of unity in the sovereignty of God is harmony, diversity and community.
“Unity is not uniformity,” O’Donnell said.
Brad Drell has a posting on Brian Cox, which is worth the read. Brian Cox may be well intentioned, but…
[blockquote] Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword…a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.[/blockquote]
What is the effect of reconciliation? Good intentions by Brian Cox are irrelevant. Will it lead to repentance of the leadership of 815? Or is he simply being used by 815 to stall while the David Booth Beers and his team prepare their briefs for the legal onslaught. (Now, there is reconciliation.)
Recognizing the need for reconciliation, and that God and Jesus are sovereign, I look forward to the announcement that all lawsuits are now and forever canceled, and that all departing parishes and diocese may leave for other Anglican Provinces with the property to serve God as they best see fit.
This will happen when pigs fly. All of the talk of reconciliation and the sovereignty of God is empty feel good rhetoric without any action to show that TEC is serious about any of this.
How would our decision-making in the Episcopal Church be affected by submission to God? The radical sexual agenda would be off the table. It isn’t, and never will be; that puts the lie to the whole reconciliation presentation. Cox is being used. I wish he could see that.
BillS, how does your comment in #2…
[blockquote] I look forward to the announcement that all lawsuits are now and forever canceled, and that all departing parishes and diocese may leave for other Anglican Provinces with the property to serve God as they best see fit. [/blockquote]
…fit, in any way, shape, or form, the concept of [b]reconcilliation?[/b] What you are asking for is complete capitulation to everything that your side is demanding of TEC. “Give me everything I want and you get nothing in return” is not, in my book reconciliation. Like a couple seeking a divorce, Schofield, Iker, & Co. have said to their TEC spouse, “We want a divorce and our side of the family has decided that we get everything.” But thus saith the wife, “Not happening.”
Personally, I think all that time that the bishops spent talking about reconciliation was a waste. Why talk about reconciliation when:
1) Some of the bishops that are there have no desire to be reconciled with bishops with whom they disagree;
2) Some of the bishops who are not there have no desire to be reconciled; and
3) That some bishops from both sides have obviously reached a point where reconciliation, or even tolerance for one another, has gone kaput.
Waste.
O’Donnell posed a great question to the HOB:
[blockquote]”How would our decision-making in the Episcopal Church be affected by submission to God and submission to each other?”[/blockquote]
Would love to hear that discussion.
#2 BillS: Good point on the litigations! IMHO, reconciliation in their meaining is that we, the Conservatives, must ask the forgiveness for not accepting their [i]New Thing Theology[/i] and marching to their beat instead of marching to the beat of Jesus Christ! Thn they will allow the reconciliation to begin.
#3 Phil: Another good point. Maybe they should practice what they preach! They would begin to have much more credibility if they did!
I say [b] BEWARE![/b]
[blockquote]Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.[/blockquote]
Smuggs,
It is never a waste of time to always try to reconcile or at the least be open to reconciliation because we do not know what the Lord can do wiith many who have not had their hearts so hardened! Please don’t put God in a small box. 🙂
But, if you really do believe what you say above then you would also have to agree that sending Cox+ into San Joaqun for [i]”reconciliation”[/i] is a waste of time!
Oops! Forgot to add this before hitting submit:
Cox+ is no where near trying to reconcile with Bishop Schofield by telling him [b]”No”[/b] when Bp. Schofield called him and asked if he, Cox+, would meet with him. I thought reconciling was his thing? What kind of reconciling priest are you when you tell a fellow brother [b]”NO”[/b]?
One Day Closer…astonishing revisionist history you present. It is your leaders who refused to commune with ++KJS, who refused to stay and talk at the meeting in NO, who are intent to have their way as schismatics. Get honest about it.
[i]Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.[/i]
Revamundo, you, also, should be honest. The General Convention organization is as fully intent on having its way – on fulfilling its radical sexual agenda – as are its opponents.
Also, as a definitional squabble, I believe “schismatics” are those who have no doctrinal differences and separate from the Church, anyway. Considering the GCC rejects the Catholic Tradition, large chunks of the Gospel, and large chunks of Christian moral teaching, it would be properly called “heretical,” and portions of it, such as DioSJ, that separate themselves from it, are merely fleeing from false teachers – which is permitted under the ancient councils.
Phil…just keep telling yourself that.
[i]Remember not the former things, nor consider the things of old. Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.[/i]
Rev,
wouldn’t a better verse be
Jeremiah 6:16
Thus says the LORD:
“Stand by the roads, and look,
and ask for the ancient paths,
where the good way is; and walk in it,
and find rest for your souls.
But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’
(English Standard Version)
Revamundo…OK. I will.
[blockquote] But, if you really do believe what you say above then you would also have to agree that sending Cox+ into San Joaqun for “reconciliation†is a waste of time! [/blockquote]
I don’t know ~ depends whom he is trying to reconcile. If it’s convincing churches that originally voted to abandon TEC to return, I think there is hope. If he is trying to reconcile him with Schofield or TEC with Schofield or with churches and clergy that firmly back Schofield, I’d definitely say that he’s wasting his time. Schofield is adamant and so is KJS. My main problem with Schofield, and the reason that I will be very happy to see him and Iker go if they don’t repent, is their positions on WO which has been and is contrary to canon. At the same time, I would be very happy to see each and every bishop who allows open communion as well as other canon breaking behavior to go, too. (I’d be happy to see Robinson be defrocked but we know that that isn’t going to happen.) But hey, Schofield and Bennison will be gone in the not too distant future, Iker isn’t that far behind, so I’m not unhappy.
[blockquote]My main problem with Schofield, and the reason that I will be very happy to see him and Iker go [b]if they don’t repent,[/b] is their positions on WO which has been and is contrary to canon.[/blockquote]
Repent of what?
I personally would like to see KJS, VGR, Buno, Andrus, et al [b]REPENT[/b] of denying the divinity of Christ, consecrating an openly gay man to the episcopate which is contray to scripture, and a host of other sciptural violations. Forgetting the canons for a moment since scriptures are first and foremost more important than canons that are not followed by the PB and no one does anything about. But, Jesus will come His time in regards to violating His Word!
NEWS FLASH: The majority of Episcopalians in the United States voted to stay in the Episcopal Church today.
They did so by going to church, by receiving Communion, by participating in God’s mission and ministry, by praying, preaching and acting on God’s holy word, by working with youth and the elderly, by doing all the myriad things that have been doing through the history of the church, and by proclaiming, in many and varied ways, the love of God for all of God’s beloved children.
[color=red]Read it carefully and read it all[/color]
http://episcopalmajority.blogspotcom/
[blockquote]It is your leaders who refused to commune with ++KJS, who refused to stay and talk at the meeting in NO…[/blockquote]
That is their right do so if they feel that they are not in communion with KJS since she has not been very christianly towards [i]my leaders[/i] as you put it. Not too mention her blatant lie about the DES Communique she pretty much made it impossible for anyone to trust her and feel they are in communion with her.
Next!
I read it. So, the Episcopal Church isn’t dying? So sad. Yes, all is well. Somehow they forgot to mention that the TEC was the fastest declining denomination in America. This is [i]before[/i] San Joaquin left (and Forth Worth and Pittsburgh). Yes, all is well, all is well, all is well.
Revamundo(#16)
You are simply and mathematically wrong on your claim. TECUSA boasts a membership of 2.1 to 2.3 million. Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt and use 2.3 million members. Less than 800,000 were in Church on Sunday. So, by your accounting methods, the majority (1.5 million out of 2.3 million or > 65%) voted to [b]stay away[/b] from the Episcopal Church and its teaching. This is based on their absence from worship and ministry on the Lord’s Day.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
ODC, you are very good at spouting your party’s line. Back it up. Tell us where and when KJS, VGR, Bruno (not Buno), and Andrus denied the divinity of Christ. I, too, would like to see them repent of consecrating Robinson and can point to their votes to show that they approved of it. But where, pray tell, did they ever deny the DIVINITY of Christ? Where did they say that Christ was not God? (If you had used Spong as an example, you could have pointed towards his books or other writings.) So either show or retract.
[i] This elf asks that you not become too demanding or combative with the tone of your comments. Lighten up. [/i]
Smuggs,
“There are many ways to get to God!” How’s that for denying the divinity for Christ for ya friend!
Maybe I should only retract that I have not yet heard those words actually flow from Bruno’s or VGR’s mouths but certainly VGR’s open sexual relationship woth another man after divorcing his wife and kids for a gay life that is contrary to the very scriptures that he is supposed to uphold and live by.
oops so quick to hit submit…..
in regards to VGR, he should repent and those who consecrated him should also.
Phil, leave Revamundo to his nice dreamy all-is-well scenario, will ya? Of the few folks that could be bothered to get up on Sunday morning in the USA (approximately 20% -60 million) to go to church, an insignificant number (<1% - 800,000) were in ECUSA/TEC/GCC churches.
And, please don't tell Revamundo, that in my all-too-typical congregation of between 25 and 35 attenders, 90% are in total disagreement with the direction of the Church of General Convention and our diocese in matters that he/she/it and the episcopalmajority(so-called) would think significant.
So don't ass-u-me too much, Revamundo, or be too like the PB in your use of statistics. You both will continue to give science and statistics a bad name.
[i] PLEASE enough with the sarcasm. [/i]
-Elf Lady
Smuggs writes:
[blockquote]My main problem with Schofield, and the reason that I will be very happy to see him and Iker go if they don’t repent, is [b]their positions on WO which has been and is contrary to canon.[/b][/blockquote]
Women’s ordination began in violation of canon law in this country. Bp Iker’s position is hardly in violation of canon law of the TEC (yet). Bp Schofield’s position is not in violation of his province, the church of the Southern Cone where women can serve as deacons but not priests.
Smuggs #20 – you could start with these comments by Presiding Bishop* Katharine Jefferts-Schori. You see that she is sending a clear message that Jesus was in no way unique, and our experience with Him is a cultural artifact; in fact, “God” may Himself be an artifact of human interrelationships. If one denies Christ’s uniqueness, one denies His divinity.
*This term used to denote the job title given by ECUSA to one of its several regional managers.
The central problem is that TEC;s language is untrustworthy because their motives require dissimulation. TEC has no interest in reconciliation as most people understand this term. For them, as noted oft en above, the words means “agreeing with TEC so that no lines of division are visible.” The left wing has distorted all sorts of words with such persistence and tenacity that the distortions have become established, e.g., tolerance, but you all can think of a dozen. This is why communication with TEC and Schori is undesirable, since to establish common ground, without which communication is impossible, one must accept TEC’s redefinitions.
Hence, when they commend communication, they are not talking about communication in an common sense but are using customary meaning in a bait and switch sales program. LM