A gunman shot four staff members at a missionary training center near Denver early Sunday, killing two, after being told he couldn’t spend the night. About 12 hours later and 65 miles away in Colorado Springs, a gunman fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch and wounded four other people before a guard killed him, police said.
One of the hospitalized victims from the second attack died Sunday at about 10:10 p.m., said Amy Sufak, a spokeswoman for Penrose Community Hospital in Colorado Springs.
The police chief in Arvada, a suburb about 15 miles west of Denver where the mission workers were shot, said the shootings may be related to those in Colorado Springs but declined to elaborate. No one had been captured in the Arvada shootings, authorities said.
Early Monday, authorities were searching a home in suburban Englewood, about 15 miles south of Denver, that they said could be related to the Colorado Springs shooting case. Results of that search were not immediately known.
My heart broke as I heard about the first set of shooting then again when the radio broke in with the “CBS Special Report” of the second set.
Lord please be with those who grieve and please protect your Church. Please bring your righteousness to this world. Please redeem this horrible situation.
I find it interesting that whenever gun legislation or gun debate is before Congress, there is a major shooting. Even Rush Limbaugh (hate him or love him) has commented on that fact. Currently, the Supreme Court has a major second amendment case which the ruling is expected in the spring. So, I’m expecting more shootings.
Personally, I believe if more people were brought up with guns, trained to use them and could freely carry them around with them; we would not have all of these mass shootings.
-Vincent
A friend of mine was shot in the incident yesterday at New Life. This all happened very quickly. The guard moved fast to get this guy dealt with. Vincent, although I am not against guns, it wouldn’t have helped my friend to have a gun in her purse yesterday. It did help that the guard was armed. The man who did this almost certainly knew there were armed guards around, and it didn’t deter him. The police presence at New Life is obvious. I don’t know really if it would deter shooters to know others were armed. They seem to want to die in a shootout. It takes anyone other than the armed guards at least a few moments to dig their gun out – and by then a shooter can take out enough people to accomplish their purpose. Personally, I think I would be a tad nervous if I thought very many people were walking around armed at church. Can’t imagine how shot up our pie thrower at Grace might have been…
Jane, most of the mass shootings in the past years have been in areas in which people are not expected, or are strictly forbidden, to have guns. I think, though the shooters clearly want to die, they also seem to want to kill as many as possible first, and then they often prefer to kill themselves, a final act of dominance. Their actions are cowardly in that they seek situations in which they can shoot helpless victims. If they knew others might be armed it might deter them some, though there is no gaurantee of absolute protection.
A “few moments” may be all it takes for your friend to save himself from harm and even death, or to save a few others.
Vincent,
The “more guns for more people” might make sense as a deterrent to plain-minded criminals and calculating bad guys.
But in this age, with so many mind-bent jilted lovers, dope addicts, angry and suicidal retributionists, bipolar- and other neurologically disordered people (whether temporarily or permanantly messed up) in our streets, schools, pews, malls, and workplaces, no way. We all would be in much greater danger. (Who could tell who the bad guy was if scores of ordinary citizens pulled out guns in a crowded mall or parking lot and began pointing and maybe shooting?)
I do believe large churches are well served by having trained security personnel around. They may not be able to prevent casualties, but they could help limit their number. As a Colo. Spgs police officer told reporters, the security person likely saved a lot of lives.
I found it interesting to hear the New Life pastor tell reporters the church beefed up security right away after learning about the YWAM killings earlier in the day. I wonder how many other churches in and out of the area did that.
w.w.
Am I the only one to find it spooky that the assailant was gunned down by an armed *church* security guard? I’m no radical pacifist, but on this matter I certainly believe discussions like this could benefit from a healthy dose of Hauerwasian theological rhetoric.
Chris:
I would agree with you that people today are more imbalanced and unstable than previous generations; however that is not an excuse to keep decent citizens from being armed. The plain clothed officer at New Life took down the assailant. If we had more of an armed population, that could have easily been an ordinary citizen taking out the assailant. The reason why gun ownership is so important is that it is a tool to enforce our God given rights against criminals and tyrannical government. The founding fathers believed that gun ownership was important component to a free, safe and prosperous country.
It’s the banning of serotonin reuptake inhibitors that is needed. That is really the problem behind all of these mass shootings. 99.9% of the time, the shooter was on some hardcore meds. If I’m not mistaken, in Switzerland, every household is required to have firearms. I would like to know what percentage of the population is on heavy meds? I don’t hear of mass shootings in Switzerland.
Watching Cerinthus’:
Churchgoers packing heat is nothing new. In the South during slavery, in many cities, laws were passed that white church goers had to come to church armed. The concern was that the population could be caught off guard with much of the population in morning services.
I have often thought with the war on terror that church members should go armed. Churches might become targets of terrorist groups.
-Vincent
In college I went on a two-week Mission training school (MTS) with Youth With a Mission, in their Virginia training center. A wonderful place, a former convent of all things, on the James River (but isolated). It still holds a special place in my memory, and came at the right time for me.
“mind-bent jilted lovers, dope addicts, angry and suicidal retributionists, bipolar- and other neurologically disordered people” simply can’t buy guns or obtain permits to carrying them, so this isn’t the problem.
At New Life yesterday the fact that an armed security volunteer was on the scene and could react immediately was the key to saving at least 100 lives according to their pastor.
This is a serious problem and its seems prudent for every church to have at least a few members who are designated and trained security personnel.
[i]It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion.[/i] – William Inge
Vincent – September 2001 saw a gunman slay 14 in a parliament building in Switzerland. It happens everywhere. Switzerland does not require households to own firearms, but there is a large percentage of households which have military weapons that individuals have kept after their military duty. They are not allowed to carry these publicly without a special permit. I find your 99.9% of mass shooters being on heavy meds statistic intriguing. Could you please site your sources?
Jane:
I stand correct about Switzerland. I wonder if the shooter was on psychotropic drugs?
[i] Comment edited by an impatient elf. [/i]
I don’t mean to be snotty, but please tell me your reference to the “Jew Daycare Center” was a typo and you meant to say “Jewish Daycare Center”…
Yes, I doI don’t mean to be snotty, but please tell me your reference to the “Jew Daycare Center†was a typo and you meant to say “Jewish Daycare Center”…
Yes, I don’t mean to be snotty either, but ditto.
I’ll add my voice to the chorus. #12?
As an aside it’s been reported by CNS that the valiant lass who put an end to this rampage is not a security guard, but a volunteer parishoner in plain clothes.
Here is the link to the Christian witness of the young woman who shot the shooter at New Life Church here in Colorado Springs: http://www.krcc.org/krccnews/
She saved hundreds of lives by being prepared and acting.
The CSPD suggests churches should consider having on site volunteer security persons with plans like this one in place.
This sort of thing raises the stakes on the academic conversation going on about breakaways and Christian witness–If one believes in God’s providence and not some sort of pelagian view of human necessity of passive response to qualify as Christian witness–we need to remember that even though it is meant for evil, God can use it for good.
Yep, I meant Jewish Daycare Center.
I did a little research on Friedrich Leibacher, the mass shooter in Switzerland. I wasn’t able to find any news articles that stated he was on psychotropic drugs. I did find some mention of drug usage on message boards, but no citation of news sources. However, Wikiapedia stated that he was diagnosed with a personality disorder and alcoholism and he received an invalidity pension.
I find it hard to believe he wasn’t on any type of meds for treatment of his disorder, especially since he received a invalidity pension.
As for major shootings in the US, nearly all of the shooters were on some type of psychotropic drugs. If you google ‘mass shooters psychotropic drugs’ or some similar combination, numerous mainstream and alternative media reports will pop up.
I’m waiting for more information to come out about the shooter in Colorado. I’m willing to bet he was also on psychotropic drugs as well.
-Vincent
#6 Watching Cerinthus’ Bathhouse says:
I had a similar moment of discomfort at the thought… but in a case like this, it’s hard to argue with the results. It could have — almost certainly it would have — been much worse otherwise.
Vincent, sometimes people are evil. They do evil things. Drugs aren’t always responsible. Your assertion that all these mass murders are directly linked to drugs is naive. Psychotropic drugs have only been in use in the last half century. Without even trying, I can come up with numerous examples of senseless mass slayings prior to 1960. The Clutter murders, Bonnie and Clyde, the Boston Strangler… all without psychotropic drugs. While there is evidence that drugs occasionally cause some people to react violently, there is also evidence that drugs improve the lives of millions of people. My thought is that sometimes, when confronted with evil people, psychiatry tries to treat them with drugs. But because the problem is evil rather than mental illness, it doesn’t take care of the problem. And some evil people on drugs commit mass murder, as some evil people not on drugs commit mass murder. If you got rid of the psychotropic drugs, it would not get rid of evil people. It could be that the killer this weekend was on drugs. It doesn’t logically follow that the drugs made him do it.
#9 Don Armstrong,
My point exactly. A “few” trained people. Not “everybody” or “many.”
In this day and age, every large church ought to have such, IMO. If they don’t have volunteers to do the job, they ought to hire an off-duty cop in plain clothes. Unknown to most folks in the large church I attend, several ushers, some with a law enforcement background, all with special training, are always “equipped” and “on duty.”
In a crisis, they may not be able to prevent all casualties, but they’ll prevent many, as at New Life. Nehemiah watchers on the wall.
w.w.