Rebecca Anne Binder, the daughter of Dr. Martha Connell and Dr. Jack Binder of Scarsdale, N.Y., was married on Saturday to Amanda Elizabeth Laws, the daughter of Oneida Méndez-Laws and the Rev. Thomas Laws of Montclair, N.J. Ms. Binder’s father, who was authorized by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, officiated at St. John’s Episcopal Church in Charlestown, Mass., where Ms. Laws’s father, an Episcopal priest, participated in a blessing ceremony.
In Massachusetts an Episcopal priest Performs "a blessing ceremony' for a same sex couple
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It is appropriate here to use at least scare quotes around marriage, e.g. “marriage,” as this is not a valid marriage, and could never be for reasons far too obvious to need stating.
That may be a record for ‘World’s shortest moratorium.’
Moratorium? What moratorium.
When teenagers drag-race their cars, the statistical evidence tends to support a parent’s gut-feeling claim that drag racing is a Bad Thing. Reasserters make a similar gut-feeling claim that gay people partnering up for life is a Bad Thing. I’d be curious to know what evidence they think supports that claim; if the answer is, Scripture says so, and we rest our case,” that’s fine; I just want to know if there’s anything other than Scripture.
(If the physical and psychological problems associated with homosexual promiscuity are going to be cited, please be sure you’re comparing apples to apples.)
Actually, never mind about my #4; the question still strikes me as a logical one, but rehashing it yet again doesn’t seem called for in light of the topic of the main posting.
DC there is an answer, but I wouldn’t expect a non-christian to understand.
We don’t need no stinkin’ Anglican Communion.
What perfect timing. Like an abused woman returning from three weeks at the battered woman shelter and getting a stout slap across the cheek as she walks in, just to show her who’s boss.
Expect more, reasserters.
Br Michael, there are definitely true Christians on the other side of this debates. Being Christian doesn’t make one correct in all things. I do disagree with DC, but I don’t doubt his faith. Go [url=http://www.questioningchristian.org/]read his website[/url].
[blockquote]Expect more, reasserters. [/blockquote]
Exactly so, Jeffersonian. The liberals know full well that they can make the place of the orthodox unteneble simply by carrying on with the gay pride parade blessings, the SSU blessings, the ordination of practicing homosexuals, etc. Even those who are sequestered in dioceses like South Carolina who are trying to carry out our Gospel mission will be affected: “Why should I come to your church, Father Kendall? It’s the gay church, I’m not gay.”
9, I have. DC has admitted that he does not believe almost anything in the Creeds. By any objective definition he is not christian.
[blockquote]Even those who are sequestered in dioceses like South Carolina who are trying to carry out our Gospel mission will be affected: “Why should I come to your church, Father Kendall? It’s the gay church, I’m not gay.†[/blockquote]
It’s entropy, Robroy: If you put a spoonful of wine into a barrel of sewage, you get sewage. If you put a spoonful of sewage into a barrel of wine, you get sewage. TEC in its entirety is corrupted by its celebration of sin.
“DC has admitted that he does not believe almost anything in the Creeds.”
I looked at his website, too. The Trinity doesn’t fare very well, either.
What really matters is that Bishops STOP the boarder crossings!!!!
Or continue them. Because that’s what really hurts and brings home the consequences.
It depends on one’s definition of a true Christian.
If one seems called to discipleship, attends church, yet persists in being a self-avowed, practicing, and unrepentant sinner – then is that person a true Christian? Can that person find salvation without metanoia? Can that person find the Father without being led there by Jesus?
If 2 (or more) people want to have sex with each other, my rational mind says, “So, what? Go ahead. Enjoy!”
Likewise, if they as individuals KNOW what Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition say about that, and CHOOSE to do it anyway – well, there’s no point in shrieking at them like the fundamentalists do. Shake the dust off your feet, and move on after making it clear that you’re still available if they “change their mind”.
However, when they go about teaching others (perhaps even with the backing of a church) that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this, then we face an age-old challenge. It’s called heresy, and it does not originate from God. The Church has NEVER rejected this sexual teaching on a conciliar level, although it (IMHO) has the authority to do so. What authority do individual bishops, priests, deacons and laity have to reject this teaching?
It’s not the same as dealing with an altar guild dispute about using polyester for fair linen.
At the same time, malevolent bishops are inhibiting orthodox priests and deacons who reject this outright heresy, and saying that they will not stop. I cannot believe that even the holy JI Packer and Bp. Cox got caught in this, but they did. The “border crossing” phenomenon is an essential pastoral response, only necessary because the malevolent bishops are devouring their own sheep.
Let the malevolence cease. Stop letting wolves into the sheep-fold. Stop ordaining practicing homosexuals (and other unrepentant sinners) to the episcopate, priesthood, and diaconate. Stop putting them into positions of lay leadership. Bring the Church back around to the faith that has been known to all people, in all times, and everywhere.
Then, who needs border crossings any more?
If the malevolent faction will not repent, then it must be marginalized. Although it is a loud, screaming voice (as is usually the case with the devil), it represents a minority of bishops, who represent a minority of sheep. Let them scream and call everyone else names. So what?
The Anglican Communion is stronger than it appears to be. I’d be more worried if there WEREN’T border crossings in response to this kind of outright, blatant heresy.
The trouble is, Ralph that they do NOT scream, nor are they in a minority. Schori’s voice is alway modulated o the point of dishwater, so to speak, and Susan Russell has never had a hissy fit that I have seen.
For us, life would be much easier if the guys in the black hats walked around, cursing and gambling and whoring, but we haven’t seen that, at least never here that I know of. Their success doesn’t rest on temper tantrums that spineless parents cannot stop, but on complete and singleminded persistence that matches the broad swathe of liberal opinion across the US. Larry
#6 – Brother Michael: good luck in being an evangelist, because there will be fewer and fewer Christians. Perhaps you should try harder. I’m sure you are a bright guy, but it could also sound like you aren’t able to.
As I am a sinner, I am wary of the term “true Christian.” I’m reminded of the old Gospel tune, “Lord, Make me a Christian,” which captures that tenuous feeling of knowing that our faith is often broken and incomplete. I know that most reasserters have a much better, stronger, purer faith than I do, and bless you all for being the clean sorts that you are. I just need God’s grace more than all of you do. Perhaps God will never make me a Christian, and all I’ll have is my baptismal certificate and my ordination vows to declare such. I hope you know that if you do have flaws which I am unaware of, my faith in God’s grace and in Jesus is that I won’t need to cast you aside or blame you for all the things that you do, or think.
If someone has decided to reject promiscuity and sees that making a promise to someone is a hallmark of fidelity to God, then good for them. I admit, I am probably more flawed than they are.
After all, I’m in a community of sinners (we call it the church, but it seems to be different than the places you are members of, with their polished people all of whom have lived exemplary lives), all of whom have flaws of their own. If anything, it is the hallmark of a Christian to ask for God’s blessing even though one is a flawed person. Didn’t Jacob ask for his father’s blessing (and he was pretty conniving!)
I would also not that there is a parent involved. I know of plenty of families who throw their children out and hate their children for being disordered. I trust more the parent who loves their child and trusts them when they are adults.
What will continue to happen is that – regardless of what the institutional church does – gay people will call themselves Christians. They see that they need not fear God’s wrath. The wiser will let the reasserters get flustered, angry, frustrated that they cannot control a “sin” they imagine. Gay Christians will trust that God is with them, and will bear in their relationships love, joy, kindness, gentleness and faith. If they see Christ in each other, then what can we, the perfect, say about them?
Larry, not all screaming can be measured in decibels. Actions speak louder than words. KJS deposed Bishop Cox. SR promotes gay weddings. VGR “got married”, authorizing his own SSB. These are only a few examples. Who could scream louder?
Because a few are so “loud” they seem to be a majority, and apparently they were all over the place at Lambeth. (One wonders where the money for this came from.) But, in the context of the global Anglican Communion, the screamingly malevolent bishops, and those who support them, are actually a small minority.
To paraphrase Shakespeare, they strut and fret their hour upon the stage, and then are heard no more. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
We can’t let their strutting and fretting deceive us. Let the listening process cease and desist. There is nothing more to say, other than “no”.
John, I was not talking to you and you simply are not worth talking to.
[i]In your face[/i] Anglican Communion! The ink isn’t even dry on the Reflections Paper and here we go again!
Hey, Brother Michael. I have been reading your postings a lot, and once again I am reminded how much we are on the same page.
I would like to email the elves to see if we might communicate directly — if that would be ok with you.
Pax et Bonum, my brother, from the FCHC Many blessings to the FO Celi De
robroy, since D.C clearly doesn’t believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Xristos (I don’t think he believes there is even any NEED for a messiah), he can’t, by definition be a Christian. He may be a nice guy as guys go, and have warm fuzzy thoughts about whatever God he believes in, but that is no reason to call him what he clearly isn’t just because he wants to do so, using a word in a way that it shouldn’t be used.
[blockquote]That may be a record for ‘World’s shortest moratorium.’ [/blockquote]
“That was then, this is now.” Susan Russell, comment #5
http://new.kendallharmon.net/wp-content/uploads/index.php/t19/print_w_comments/12527/
Lumen Christie, go to Stand firm, click on the “PVT MSG” button, click on the “member list” link, type “Br. Michael” in the search field at the bottom, Click the search button or hit return, voila there he is and just click email!
My “Pax et bonum” story: We had the wonderful pleasure of visiting Assisi about 20 years ago. There the houses all had a painted tile inscribed with “Pax et bonum” in the doorway. I bought one and gave it to my father who hung it in his doorway in Denver. Not long thereafter, a traveling salesman knocked at the door. When my father answered the door, the salesman asked if he was Mr. Pax or Mr. Bonum.
I don’t know what is in DC’s heart, but do know that he is gracious. He might be exasperating (probably because his legal mind is much sharper than mine), but I don’t remember him ever being troll-y. He took some heat for clearly stating that the deposition of +Schofield was flawed. I think that he is precisely who Peter had in mind:
[blockquote]But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect…[/blockquote]
I know that I have fallen short of this standard a great many times (although less than I have gotten deleted by overzealous elves but that’s another matter).
[i] Overzealous? [/i]
“Her father, a director of employee benefits in the human resources division of Prudential Financial in Newark, is the vicar at St. Gabriel’s Episcopal Church in Oak Ridge, N.J”.
“Vicar”? I imagine that means this church is on diocesan support. Another dying parish in the Diocese of Newark?
I guess the gay gospel isn’t popular everywhere…
Thanks, RobRoy I did as you suggested.
Ok Ralph, you let us let your analogy stand as read. Still, the minority tht you speak of isn’t one at all, for these bishops and the pack they lead is conterminous and congruent with the broad run of American culture. The far left control our school systems. This is beyond dispute. Not only does this men larage numbers but is is a measure of large control of even larger numbers, the students who come away convinced that their leftwing teachers own both the hens and the eggs. This is not “screaming” even in a metaphorical sense. How far has the left wing spread its oil slick? I’m a New Hampshire-ite, and I come from a state that has been, for a few centuries, very conservative. Look at it now. It is OVERRUN with Democrats and left wing politics. Even the NYT commented on it. And Vermont! Whoa, Nellie! Once spring came slowly with green mountains. Now it comes all of a sodom. TEC has support is large numbers and in money and power. TECnophilia is not going to go away, regardless of daily attendance.
TEC is not the disease, it is the symptom. I have said this – wearisomely – again and again. The broad, powerful educated public is sick because it has chosen the path of self-indulgence and expunged self-discipline from its very soul. They are traveling in a crowd. Still, after you and I are dead, the children of the Boomers and the Boomers’ children will be saying this:
Somewhere, ages and ages hence
I will be saying this with a sigh.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood, and I,
I took the one that everyone was walking on, mile after mile,
And that has made all the difference. (Sorry ,Robert)
Larry
#20 bless you, Brother Michael.
I think this is a situation that John Wilkins is too mentally, emotionally and spiritually poor to understand. A parent with a child who makes a truly wrong choice, one contrary to the foundations of the faith, should not throw their child out or hate their child. A parent is always called to love their children, as God always loves us, even in our weakest, wrongest, most broken moments. *However*, a loving parent would never support or affirm their child’s wrong decisions and actions. Would a loving parent, asked by a child for bread, give them a stone? Conversely, would a loving parent, asked by a child for a stone or a scorpion to eat, give them what they wish? Wouldn’t that loving parent do all they could to guide the child so that they eat loaves and fishes, and seek to eat them for the rest of their lives?
Chris Hathaway [#23] writes: “… since D.C clearly doesn’t believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Xristos (I don’t think he believes there is even any NEED for a messiah), he can’t, by definition be a Christian.”
Chris, the early church mistook Jesus for a new “anointed one” (maschiach; Gk: christos) who would liberate Israel from oppression and usher in God’s rule of the world. Cyrus of Persia was thought of as an earlier anointed one who had freed Israel from Babylonian captivity. The church expected Jesus to return Any Day Now to take up the anointed-one role. But decades and then centuries passed, and Jesus was a no-show. Some of the NT epistles indicate that this was a source of no little embarrassment for the church. Conveniently, some of the church fathers were inspired to “realize” that messiah must have another meaning. We’ve been saddled with that other meaning ever since.
—————
Robroy, thanks for the kind words.
CMSigler [#30], I can assure you John Wilkins is no spiritual child. What puzzles me is what makes you think reasserters are qualified to be spiritual parents.
[i] Please return to discussing the post rather than each other. [/i]
-Elf Lady
D.C., if Jesus isn’t Christos, then who is He? IOW, what is the other meaning of Messiah? Does the fact that Jesus didn’t return RSN, as directly addressed in some Epistles, mean that Jesus isn’t Son of Man and Son of God?
CMSigler [#34], I’d normally be happy to respond to your questions, but that would take us farther off-topic than even I’m willing to go. If the elves will forgive my linking to my own blog, you might look at the “Jesus” category there to see what I’ve written before on the subject.