Update: There is more here also.
Massinformation with more Information on the Telegraph Report–I am skeptical
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Update: There is more here also.
I’m not skeptical.
Well if it’s true I will be so happy for TAC — this could be a dream come true for them and they would receive what they have needed.
I hope it’s the case — certainly their hopes have been dashed before but this is a new Pope and perhaps a new day.
I hesitate to disagree with Dr Tighe, who is usually very well informed, but I am very sceptical also. (BTW: Is this another different UK/US spelling? Sceptical, UK, skeptical, US?)
I write as a Catholic priest from the UK. A humble footsoldier I have no special insights or information. But I do wonder how such a proposal could possibly be welcomed by the Catholic bishops of England and Wales. It would make great difficulties with their relations with the Church of England. It would create parallel jurisdictions. It might deal a body blow to Latin Rite vocations in England, now slowly ticking upwards, because why be a celibate in the Latin Rite when you could be married in the Anglican Rite? Also, many Anglo Catholics have – strange thought it may seem – a strange mixture of authoritarianism and anomie, which would not go down well in today’s Catholic Church. A final thought: who can certify the figure of 400,000 (and upwards) TACs? If you believe that then you will believe that there are 1 million people in the OCA (Orthodox Church in America, previously of Russian origin, one of three such groupings).
Fr. Tee (and others),
You might wish to see this as well:
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/01/cdf-will-recommend-a-personal-prelature-for-traditional-anglicans/#comments
I know of no factual statement in Fr. Zuhlsdorf’s posted report that is untrue, and can vouch for the truth of most of them myself. There is also the report going around that the clergy in this Personal Prelature (or whatever it proves to be) will follow the “Eastern Discipline” with regard to marriage (celibate bishops; ordination of married men to the diaconate and presbyterate; no marriage oe remarriage after ordination).
One might wish to review the interesting, and perhaps prescient, article by the Bishop of Ebbsfleet (Andrew Burnham) in the August 2007 issue of New Directions (pp. 4-5):
http://publishing.yudu.com/Freedom/Almmk/NewDirectionsAug07/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=http://www.forwardinfaith.com/news/new-directions-archive.html
I’d be interested to know more about a “personal prelature” which the article describes as a diocese without boundaries. For a long time, it has seemed to me that when all the realignments shake out, we will find a new system in place which affords non-geographical dioceses. We have the examples of overlapping jurisdictions in Europe, flying bishops in the UK, the diocese of Navajoland in the US which overlaps four geographic dioceses, and now we have from this concept of a personal prelature. Any comments or input?
Boy, I love this Pope!
And thanks to matt and Sarah for your kind and hopeful comments, especially since neither of you have any inclinations toward rome.
Well without wishing to dampen the enthusiasm of those who seek reunification with the one true chuch I remain concerned to see continuing reports into its failures in relation to young people from what I believe was Cardinal Levada’s diocese.
Has the RC Church really put its house in order? I will remain sceptical until I see evidence that it has.
Fr. Tee, yes, according to my dictionary, this is one of those US/UK spelling differences. Being American, I am skeptical, but will bow to Dr. Tighe’s far better inside information.
If the Eastern Discipline as to marriage is to be allowed going forward, this might fly; but all of the current bishops will have to be replaced unless some of them are unmarried.
I agree with Dr Tighe about how very well-informed Fr Z is. But reading Fr Z’s report I see that he is simply quoting from and commenting on an article from a TAC source. Fr Z would clearly welcome the idea, but does not, as far as I can see, say it is imminent. Another straw in the wind: the article makes it clear that TAC discussions have been with Fr Augustine DiNoia at the CDF = Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith). This is a relatively low level of official, surely? All in all, I am not convinced, and I feel sad because traditional Anglicans are raising their hopes and those hopes, on my reading, will be dashed.
An addendum: Bill, if memory serves me correctly, you referred a year or so ago to the chequered/checkered marital history of TAC bishops. If I remember this rightly – surely that would be germane?
With apologies to E. F. Hutton, when Dr. Tighe speaks people would do well to listen.
#12, I earnestly hope that Dr. Tighe is doing better than E.F. Hutton these days. 🙂
Re: #11, it certainly is germane — but all those bishops have submitted “full dossiers” to Rome, and have agreed to give up their positions (not merely episcopal, but even clerical) if Rome should require that of them for the sake of the accomplishment of the goal.
Three or four of the ACA bishops are DAR (divorced-and-remarried), as is Archbishop Hepworth — but this is no deep secret; and so are bishops in the APA, the APCK and even the ACC, as well as in more obscure Continuing Anglican groups.
Re # 13
Ouch.