We inform accredited journalists that tomorrow, Tuesday 20 October 2009, at 11am, in the John Paul II Hall of the Press Office of the Holy See, a briefing will be held on a theme pertaining to the relationship with the Anglicans, at which His Eminence Cardinal William Joseph Levada, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and His Excellency Mgr Joseph Augustine Di Noia OP, Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments will take part.
Make sure to read the rest.
I’ll give 2:1 this has to do with the TAC…
Just noticed that Fr. Z seems to think so too.
What time is that Pacific Daylight Savings Time?
6 am tomorrow East Coast USA time; 3 am West Coast time.
Is there any significance in the presence of the CDF and Divine Worship Congregation representatives, but not Cardinal Kasper who one normally sees at ecumenical related events.
I see following the links through the blogs that someone else had the same thought which for fun I ran through Babelfish:
http://paparatzinger2-blograffaella.blogspot.com/2009/10/domani-briefing-su-un-tema-attinente-ai.html
From which comes Alexia’s Comment:
Per Babelfish: “The advances are blooming. You see Galeazzi on its blog. In clamorous arrival refutation to the card. Kasper? Alexia”
and this one:
http://lesuisseromain.hautetfort.com/archive/2009/10/19/des-anglicans-reviennent-a-l-eglise-catholique.html
Babelfish: “A briefing on a topic concerning the relationship with the Anglicans will tomorrow morning take place in the Vatican in the presence of the Prefect of the Congregation for the doctrines of the Faith, the cardinal William Joseph Levada. At the base of this internal division of l’ English church, the behavior of l’ liberal wing about l’ homosexuality and of l’ ordination of the women and the homosexual people. The Anglicans separated from Rome, when Henri VIII, in 1534, n’ l’ did not obtain; cancellation of its marriage. The Pope will go to the United Kingdom in 2010 for the beatification of the Cardinal J. – H. Newman, a convert of l’ Anglicanism.”
It doesn’t sound good for Rowan. Mind you I sometimes wonder whether gossip isn’t something where Roman Catholics outperform even us Anglicans.
I believe that jurisdiction over the TAC negotiations was given to the CDF by the Pope. Inside speculation has suggested that Kasper showed a great deal of reluctance to engage in any activity that might add strain to the relationship with the Anglican Communion. Pope +Benedict however is widely believed to have long since seen the writing on the wall and given up on the AC.
In ICXC
John
“Is there any significance in the presence of the CDF and Divine Worship Congregation representatives, but not Cardinal Kasper who one normally sees at ecumenical related events.”
Of course, it means that the matter does not concern primarily “ecumenical relations” with the Anglican Communion, but something else, I think something much more dramatic: I’d guess the erection of a “canonical structure” for Catholic-minded Anglicans, like the TAC, and, in due course, FIF/UK.
I tend to agree with a commenter on Damian’s blog: good possibility that the CDF’s announcement concerns the TAC whilst AB (Anglican) Williams and the Archbishop of Westminster try to put ecumenical (CofE/Catholic) spin on the former (perhaps something to the effect that matters pertaining to the TAC will not interfere with the close relationship blah, blah, blah … ).
[humor]
I guess it is beyond hope that Rowan has turned KJS over to the Inquisition – sort of along the lines of: “Right. So look here – Kate was one of yours first after all. Can’t you, well, do something?” 🙂
[/humor]
Well it has been noticeable that under the previous Pope and much of this one’s reign that TAC progress was slow per rumor to give AB Rowan time to get his act together with regards to TEC and his own house. Maybe patience has run out, much as with everyone else.
If this is an announcement about the TAC, then I’m not sure why it should be seen as a slap in the face to the AC or Anglican/RC relations. The TAC subscribed without reservation to RC doctrine and is asking for complete incorporation into the RC church; both of which are things that the AC as a whole has not done, cannot do, and so far as I can tell generally doesn’t want to do.
Now, if structural provisions are made for organizations within the AC which are of a generally Anglo-Catholic bent but still maintain reservations about that and that bit of RC doctrine… then that would be an odd thing and perhaps a bit face-slappy to the rest of the AC. But I would guess that this is unlikely.
And, as I’ve noted before, Anglo-Catholic groups need not involve the Vatican when seeking complete union with Rome. All they need do is march en masse down to their local RC parish and sign up for RCIA classes. In due course, they will be as close to the Roman church as they could desire. Of course they don’t then get to retain their own structures, but on the other hand they don’t have to wait for permission from the CDF either.
Just another part of the picture vis-a-vis #5’s question:
For the letter this past summer from Cardinal Levada at the CDF to archbishop Hepworth see: http://www.themessenger.com.au/News/20080725.htm
#10, should you read the letter cited, you will see that reference is made to the situation in the Anglican Communion as a whole. Clearly the Vatican is concerned about the TAC situation as part of the larger Anglican context and places the sentence regarding an official response to the TAC in the same paragraph as that reference.
FIF/UK is as interested in union with Rome as is the TAC, once they can get free of the Church of England. Why, it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if 2 or 3 of the FIF/UK bishops have already signed their own “reunion petition,” complete with acceptance of “all the doctrines taught by the Catholic Church to be revealed by God.”
I shall look forward tomorrow to the London press conference as well. Perhaps it will sketch a rosy future for the RC/Canterbury ecumenical future and end with a rousing chorus of “Always look on the bright side of life” from the final scene of “Life of Brian.”
Well, Anglo-Catholic groups can, and have on several occasions, presented themselves to the local Catholic bishop and ended up as a parish under the aegis of the Pastoral Provision/Anglican Use.
In a sense, whatever happens with TAC and the Catholic Church doesn’t concern the Archbishop of Canterbury. They are a separate denomination, Anglican in heritage, not in Communion. Moreover, they are relatively few in the U.K.
Re # 13
Words Matter,
I think I would have to disagree with your assessment. The TAC’s lack of communion with Canterbury is neither here nor there. They are beating a path to Rome’s door that others in the Anglican tradition are almost certainly going to follow.
TAC has by some (I suspect inflated) estimates around 500,000 members. That’s more than many of the sui juris churches of the East that are in communion with Rome. If this is in fact what most of us clearly suspect, it is extremely important and its significance for Canterbury and the broader Anglican Communion is profound.
Whatever smoke Rowan Williams may try to blow at tomorrow’s press conference in London this is a clear declaration by Rome that it considers the Anglican Communion to be lost to the catholic tradition and they are moving on. This is an engraved invitation to other Anglicans in the catholic tradition who can see the writing on the wall to abandon a communion that marries homosexuals and also ordains them along with women along with of the other theological chaos. Rome is offering a safe haven.
Nor do I think the effects of this will be limited to Canterbury. The ACNA has a large contingent of Anglo-Catholics who are extremely uncomfortable with being in communion with female clergy and under the leadership of a man that many regard as a very kindly heretic. As I noted in another thread it it is no secret that many of the High Church types in the ACNA have been casting their eyes towards Rome. Given that the ACNA is not going to give up W/O, it seems most unlikely that many of the Anglo-Catholics will remain for long, now that they are about to get a place to go.
In ICXC
John
Unless the “Pastoral Provision” is very differently applied by Rome and wildly differently accepted by the bishops under Rome, it won’t amount to much more than it did under JP II. That is, about 75 ordained in about 30 years, over the wide earth. Fewer still allowed to function, a fair number since died. Pope Benedict might see things differently and do more with it. If there are Anglicans who want to be Roman, good luck to them.
The Pastoral Provision applies only in the U.S. As it happens, I know several AU priests. One divorced and retired from active ministry. the others not only function, but serve as leaders in our diocese: our chancellor is a former Episcopal priest, in fact.
AO – you are, of course, correct, but my comment was meant (as I said) “In a sense”. That sense is that what TAC does is really none of the Archbishop of Canterbury’s business, for the reasons I cited: they are not under his jurisdiction, nor are they numerous in England. I know that’s snarky, but there you are. In my opinion, the Archbishop of Canterbury has made his bed.
As to the impact the creation of an Anglican Rite on Anglo-catholics: my last Episcopal rector said it well: Anglicanism is catholic on the outside, protestant on the inside. Anglo-catholics I have known, in particular, have a hard time making the leap from individualistic private judgement to the communal, hierarchical authority of the Catholic Church.
[blockquote] As to the impact the creation of an Anglican Rite on Anglo-catholics: my last Episcopal rector said it well: Anglicanism is catholic on the outside, protestant on the inside. Anglo-catholics I have known, in particular, have a hard time making the leap from individualistic private judgement to the communal, hierarchical authority of the Catholic Church. [/blockquote]
Well said, WM. While studying in Berkeley I found many TECs who liked the trappings of the old rite but were simultaneously glad to argue against the need for a creed or a traditional sexual morality. Anglo-Catholicism, I learned, was not at all the same as Catholicism, despite their protestations that it was. Even the most renegade Catholic seminarian would not think to argue against the creeds.
The variety of Anglo-Catholics who could most easily come to the Church are the Anglo-Papalists, of whom I never met a single one at CDSP. Though, I do suspect some at Nashotah House will be up tonight watching EWTN!
RE: “Whatever smoke Rowan Williams may try to blow at tomorrow’s press conference in London this is a clear declaration by Rome that it considers the Anglican Communion to be lost to the catholic tradition and they are moving on.”
And blow smoke he did! ; > )