The Most Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori, the national leader of the Episcopal Church in 16 countries, including its 2.4 million members in the U.S., is in Greenville for the consecration today of a new bishop for the Diocese of Upper South Carolina, the Rev. Andrew Waldo.
She said fallout from the 2003 decision to consecrate Gene Robinson as bishop of New Hampshire appears to have settled out for the most part.
“The reactivity right now is much, much less than it was seven years ago,” she said during an interview at Christ Church, where Waldo’s consecration will take place.
“I think the church, and certainly the part of the church in the United States, is reasonably clear about where we’re going, even though everybody doesn’t agree. And those in the church, I think, are willing to live with that tension.”
. . . . ALL IS WELL!
This is a joke, right?
Sorry, dear. It’s because those of us who would have continued to fight you on your heretical practices have left already. Have fun filling up those pews and coffers!
We have gone from denial and moved to delusional!
It is pathetic if she really believes this.
well once you have deposed those who oppose you, persecuted those who believe what you do not and witnessed the largest exodus in the history of the Anglican communion well, I guess it is probably true that the opposition voice seems quiet….doesnt make you right though. Not for one minute….
“Others, such as Jefferts Schori, believe the gospel, taken in context, doesn’t condemn monogamous homosexual relationships.” IN CONTEXT? This is so patently absurd that if I didn’t think she is ignorant and deluded I’d have to conclude that she’s lying.
She does realize, doesn’t she, that “anger” (which it never was) has “eased” because those opposed have left? At this point, most of her statements are just sad, off-putting, and absent any graciousness.
Yes, I’m afraid this goes beyond denial, or even self-delusion (ala #4), to outright deception. It’s made all the more striking and ironic by the PB’s reference to there being “a lot of denial” about the risks of offshore drilling. She herself calls attention to the subject of denying reality, albeit ecologial reality, but is blithely oblivious to her own massive denial of the worse-than-ever state of relations between TEC and most of the AC. Either that, or she is indeed being deliberately mandacious and cheerfully lying. And unfortunately, she has a track record of doing just that.
She simply ignores the recent GS meeting in Singapore last month and the fact that even such a liberal, pro-gay primate as ++Alan Harper in Ireland has criticized the in-your-face consecration of Mary Glasspool last weekend. She simply pretends that the opposition is dying down around the world, when in fact the disgust with American unilateralism and heresy is actually growing.
Alas, she seems to be taking after the Father of Lies more and more.
David Handy+
The comments here that zero in on deception are right in my opinion. The PB is qualifying as developing the Big Lie (see Google).
Regarding planning for 1,700 to attend, my estimate (I was there) is a count in the 900s.
Was +Mark Lawrence there?
Must correct the reporter: TEC in the USA does NOT have 2.4 million Members. It most likely will slip below 2.0 million Members when 2009 data are released. But I suspect that the loss of groups or entire parishes will be much smaller in 2009 than in 2008. I thought that after the 2009 GC there would be a large number of such departures but I have seen no evidence of such. So I believe the PB to be partially correct. And given the photo, she did manage to find Waldo. Statmann
Perhaps the “reactivity” is less, but not every destructive reaction is an explosive one. Slow oxidative corrosion can be every bit as bad.
“including its 2.4 million members in the U.S”
Well, in a sense, of course, she is right, members of the Episcopal Church are more accepting of gay ordination than they used to be, on average. One major reason is that in her tenure, the number of Episcopalians in the US has dropped rather precipitously from the 2.4 million figure quoted (which might have been accurate for 2005 or 6, when KJS came to power- although I think even then it is closer to the total membership than domestic membership) to a shade over 2 million in the US in 2008 (2,057,292 by their own figures). TEC had a membership of 2.2 million TOTAL in 2008- including the other 15 countries where there are TEC churches, in 2008- so the TOTAL figure is 200,000 less than the figure they are quoting for the US alone.
And that was in 2008. What do you figure actual membership is now, in mid 2010? I daresay well below 2 million.
And that explains why gay ordination is more acceptable. At least a half million people have left since the 2.4 million domestic figure was true. Probably many more- because as we all know from our experiences in TEC parishes, new people do come in to partially offset the losses- and the TEC totals are the net figure- 2007 membership-losses+gains. In recent years, all to often drawn in because TEC has no rules- you can believe what you want and behave as you want, and still be ordained or a member in good standing. The vast majority of those who leave are from the “anti” side of the equation.
Of course, the ongoing problem they will have is that once the novelty wears off, the sort of people who don’t really believe in the church and the message and gifts that Christ offers, will be moving down the road to the next fashionable “spiritual but not religious” enterprise- probably one where you don’t get called weekly by the senior warden wondering why your tithe is late.
Statmann, while you are correct about the losses of parishes and dioceses being smaller in 2009 than 2008, remember that the dioceses didn’t leave until very late in the year. The ASA, and membership, of those dioceses was reported at “average” numbers, so a diocese that left in November was accounted at an average of 10/12 of its ASA (at least when they originally released the figures). Here is the chart for Pittsburgh through 2008- note just a small dip-
http://208.91.223.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_522201053400PM.pdf
So the impact of the dioceses leaving is not evident in the 2008 numbers.
I think that for 2009, not only will it “most likely slip” below 2 million, I think it is a lock.
Likewise, when the 2009 numbers are released, we will only see part of the impact of GC09, and when 2010 are released at the end of next year, only a portion of the impact of the Glasspool consecration.
She doesn’t care if TEC has 100 people, as long as it’s the “correct”-liberal 100 people.
Good thing reality checks are NOT part of the program of the PBs: Browning, Grizwald, and Schori! Nice to see a “tradition” being maintained, especially such a long-lived one, for the EcUSA/TEc.
[blockquote]And those in the church, I think, are willing to live with that tension.â€[/blockquote]
[b]ARE YOU LISTENING, DIOCESE OF ALBANY? ARE YOU?? AT ALL??[/b]
OUR CONTINUED SILENCE TELLS THEM: “IT’S REALLY JUST FINE. WE ARE WILLING TO LIVE WITH IT.” OUR SILENCE TELLS THEM WE REALLY THINK IT IS ALL OK.
WELL IT IS [b]NOT[/b] OK, AND SOME OF US ARE [b]NOT[/b] WILLING TO KEEP ON LETTING THEM THINK THAT WE CAN JUST LIVE WITH IT.
YOU CAN’T KEEP US DANCING TO THEIR TUNE MUCH LONGER.
Hmmm – well I suppose that if you were a rather bluff American Presiding Bishop [or indeed any other Archbishop] you could take the quiet after the Glasspool election and consecration as a sign that you were going to get away with it. You might also think that by heading off to various parts of Africa bearing chicken dinner bribes you were home and dry.
One might think that, but I think it would be a mistake. In my experience it is when things have gone very very quiet that things are at the most dangerous, for people have reacting verbally or trying to persuade; communication has ended. When people go very very quiet, be alert, for that is when they act.
Things have gone very very quiet.
And why have we not tossed TEC out to where teeth are being gnashed and such like goings on? This women is incontestably out of touch with reality. I do hope you will pardon my saying this again, that those whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. Larry
I agree with Pageantmaster; and, just for the record, there are some of us still in TEC who think that circus in LA last week was a travesty.
One more thing that this PB obviously has no appreciation of, are the hundreds of thousands of us who, for now, remain faithful to our local parishes despite our total opposition to her destructive doctrine. We will likely stay that way until the trickle-down of these profane directives reach our Rector/Vicar, and then our future in TEC may depend entirely on what that local minister does with it.
For now, this PB and her national Church should understand that she and her cohorts have reached a level of total irrelevance (at the very least) to these many faithful Episcopalians. She may care, she may not, but she should understand that this underlying resentment is large, very large…and for the most part, very quiet.
My parish is clearly in the smallest 30% in TEC, which have suffered the most from the fallout since 2003. We’ve shrunk so much in plate, pledge and pew, we had to let our (bibically orthodox) rector go. The new vestry is fully aligned with The New Thing (if any of them are aware of recent events, they are sure to be all for it, since afterall, the Church needs to keep up with the times!), and seems to think that All Is Well. Being among some of the last of the conservatives, Dear Hubby and I are looking for a graceful path to the exit. But where to go? Quite the quandry in the liberal northeast!
One is tempted to repeat at this point the famous remark of Jerome: “The whole world groaned and marvelled to find itself Arian.†But in the overall course of history – for how much longer …?! “Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat itâ€: Butterfield
As far as I know, that figure of 2.4 million includes people in 16 overseas jurisdictions, but just how many there actually are in those jurisdictions is questionable; just as the 2.4 million figure itself is questionable. I suspect that quite a few of those people may be residents of graveyards who are still on the rolls in some places, or people who have left TEC for other churches, or organized religion altogether.
It is always quieter in a graveyard. The PB should have stuck to oceanography, a field she seems more accurately knowledgeable about than the Bible.
Comments appear to have a central theme. The TEC data will include the effects of the departure of Fort Worth, Quincy, and Pittsburgh. Members (in USA) WILL drop below 2 million. There will be fewer group departues in 2009 than in 2008. But individual losses will also be significant and reflect a reaction to GC 2009. Interesting and quite reasonable. Stay tunes. Statmann
the anger may have eased, but so too has the energy, enthusiasm, membership, and most importantly average Sunday attendance. Now why is it that she does not want to talk about those things?
#21 is correct, and I are one of them. But one has to wonder when that trickle – down will actually become so overwhelming that us “orthodox” pewsitters will finally pick up our knapsacks and leave? I suspect most of us will die first.
Well, how about [b[DENIAL[/b] for starters?
Elanor –
Try this site: http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/kaysplace/-finding.html
Bless you and Hubby.