The primates and moderators of the Anglican Communion will be hosted by the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East for a February 1-5 meeting in Alexandria, Egypt, a January 15 press release from the Anglican Communion Office has confirmed.
Meeting behind closed doors at the Helnan Palestine Hotel, the primates will discuss international concerns such as the proposed Anglican covenant, the situation in Zimbabwe, global warming, and Christian responses to the global financial crisis.
The primates will also hear an update from the Windsor Continuation Group and receive a report the group is presenting to the Archbishop of Canterbury. The group, which last met in December 2008, is charged with addressing questions arising from the Windsor Report, such as recommended bans on same-gender blessings, cross-border interventions and the ordination of gay and lesbian people to the episcopate.
Re: “the primates will discuss………the situation in Zimbabwe, global warming, and Christian responses to the global financial crisis.”
Who set this agenda?
There ought to be one and only one item in the agenda; the situation in the church in the US, in Canada, and the Church of England.
Global warming??
Is this a meeting of some environmental scientists, or what??!!
The last time the Primates meet in DS, they gave the US church some conditions for their (TEc) continual membership in the Anglican Communion. As at this momment, TEc has gone from bad to worse.
Where are we on this matter?
If RW and Sentamu, with their masters/handlers in the US and their acolytes everywhere else think they can continue making a joke of the “process” and continuing to kick the can further down, they may need to rethink.
Fr. Kingsley Jon-Ubabuco
Arlington, Texas
The last time the Primates met in DS……
I hope RW is not plannig on another indaba.
Whereas ENS hopes they will only “hear” about the Windsor Continuation Group and the Windsor process, because, God forbid, anyone should actually do anything about the running amok ECUSA/TEC/GCC/EO-PAC and Canada and their fellow-travelers, we may pray for decisive intervention against the tomfoolery of the same.
Rowan Williams had alloted only four hours for the “American question” at DeS. This was simply ignored. If Rowan thinks that he can [i]indaba[i/] ABp Akinola or Orombi, he has another thing coming.
Yeah right – they have all spent thousands of dollars and flown round the world to talk about the weather. Dream on.
Who set this agenda? The ACC? I would hope the GAFCON Archbishops inform ACC to change the agenda immediately, or they will organize their own meeting to deal with the real world.
I suspect that was what the meeting of the White Commonwealth in London before Christmas was about – the one with the Presiding Bishop pictured next to Dr Williams grinning from ear to ear. If the ABC, Kearon and the ACC try to foist several days of such filler on the Primates I suspect that they will lose even more of what remains of their credibility. Oh well.
No – on the agenda is the communique of the last Primates meeting. I rather think Dr Williams and the Presiding Bishop have some explaining to do.
Sorry in #7 that is ACO not ACC. Alphabet soup! Covenant is the only thing on the agenda that makes any sense for peoples’ valuable time. The others while important do not warrant a meeting.
I wonder how the GS primates will treat Ms Schori. At DeS, Rowan Williams expended much political capital to have them accept her in a limited fashion. Ms Schori repaid him with lying to the world about what was agreed upon.
I suppose what most concerns me is the position of the office of ABC in the Communion. I suppose it was utterly predictable, that like at the meeting at Dar and Lambeth, this ABC and the ACO would attempt to manipulate the agenda away from confrontational issues. The net result was that at DAR the Primates were having none of it, nor of the ‘report’ which a committee of the ABC’s appointees had presented. Similarly at Lambeth where again the net result was that representatives of at least half the world’s Anglicans did not turn up. None of the things Dr Williams said he would do have happened: no pastoral forum, no reaching out to those who did not attend Lambeth.
Here again it looks as if the manipulation is in full swing notwithstanding the truculence we have seen from the PB and the bishops of Los Angeles and Colorado.
Complaint has been made that the Global South and Gafcon are increasingly making Canterbury and the office of ABC irrelevant. My worry is that with this stubborn determination to manipulate this particular ABC is making that certain.
How much of the office which he took on will Dr Williams leave behind I wonder?
Quiet, innit?
Contrary to what the article suggests, the Primates’ Meetings originated in response to the action of the Lambeth Conference, not merely the action of the Archbishop of Canterbury.
The article states: “The Primates Meeting was established in 1978 by Archbishop Donald Coggan (101st Archbishop of Canterbury) as an opportunity for ‘leisurely thought, prayer and deep consultation.’â€
According to the Windsor Report (par. 104), the 1978 Lambeth Conference called upon the Archbishop of Canterbury to work with all the primates of the Anglican Communion to initiate such a meeting.
It’s difficult to tell if this ENS report is providing the actual agenda for the Primates’ Meeting or its wishful thinking on what the Primates will undertake. This catalog also doesn’t take account of what the Primates may decide to do once they are gathered in Alexandria. Pray that God’s will is the first and most important thing on the agenda.
I don’t mean to be cruel here, but who cares what the agenda is of the Primates Meeting.
It’s nice, I suppose, that all the Primates intend to show up — but what does it matter? They all showed up last time — and fought for the agenda — and it profited absolutely nothing, other than the spectacle of RW completing flouting the “decisions” of the Primates Meeting at Dar.
So . . . what’s the point about figuring out the agenda? They could end up with a fantastic agenda — who cares?
They could end up making great and wonderful decisions — who cares?
In the end, RW will do as he sees fit. As was demonstrated at Lambeth with crystal clear effect, the only instrument of Communion with any power whatsoever is the Archbishop of Canterbury. The rest of them are just for show and filler.
Sarah,
I understand where you’re coming from. And I see your point. However, if I understand your previous articles on SF and comments here on T19, you advocate involvement in existing structures, whether those be parish vestries, diocesan conventions, or TEC General Convention. Does this also not apply for existing Communion structures?
You recently wrote:
“those Episcopalians [Anglicans] interested in the inside strategy need to connect with one another, and seek counsel where they can — but with crystal clarity that there is no organizational or institutional or national help for them. We are, as I have said for the past almost two years, on our own”
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/19243/
Maybe I’m not clear about what you’re saying. On the one hand, I hear you say we still in TEC should be very concerned about the agenda of vestries, conventions, and, (the logical extension) Anglican Communion Instruments. But then I hear on this thread the sort of talk I heard last summer justifying not going to Lambeth, ie, there is not point; they’ve had they’re shot; nothing will get accomplished; “RW will do as he sees fit”.
Are you advocating activity / concern about what ultimately happens in TEC, but not what ultimately happens in the Anglican Communion? That almost sounds like what I hear out of 815.
Help me understand.
In Charity,
Cal
It matters because their vote will legitimize the new North American Anglican Province and give more of a global voice to our plight over here.
They will make sure it is on the agenda, and it will pass.
A part of me agrees with Sarah. Another part is praying for tongues of fire to appear at the Helnan Palestine Hotel and for the conversion of the “liberals” to genuine Christianity. And yet another prayer is for turning the heart of +Cantuar. He tried last summer to kick the can down the road, in the hopes the trouble would go away. If faced with the actual, imminent collapse of the Anglican international body in its present form, what would he do? Stay tuned. Why not hope and pray? Can it hurt?
What’s on the agenda matters. What orthodox Primates do (and seek to do) despite the agenda matters more.
The world doesn’t turn on the quirks of Abp. Williams. The Anglican world shouldn’t turn on them either. The more persistently and effectively we push back against him, the more clear his obstructionism will become—and the more it will be seen as dysfunctional and illegitimate.
In this world we face tribulation. In this world we will ultimately lose, just as Jesus in worldly terms “lost.” But he wants us to fight the good fight.
Hi Calvin,
My thesis for two years now has been — with regards to the Anglican Communion — that Rowan Williams is encouraged in his passivity and desire to see nothing at all substantive happen when everyone is meeting together and “continuing the dialogue.”
Perversely, every time another meeting takes place with all the players at the table — “in conversation” — he is heartened and realizes that “my plans are working — the Communion is holding together. See — everyone came to the table.”
There’s only one thing that could dynamite — and it would take many many sticks of dynamite — the ABC out of his current position of “oh, I just can’t do anything disciplinary” [while of course, doing any number of things to sabotage efforts at discipline] and that is the conviction that the Anglican Communion is ending, with Primates who are leaving the Communion entirely.
When I advocate participating in vestries, etc, in TEC, please understand that that is only in cases where it could do strategic good. There are plenty of cases in which it would do harm. Let me offer one specific example.
I recently corresponded with an Episcopalian in a ravingly revisionist diocese, with a revisionist rector of his parish. Before all the leavers get on and shrill that he needs to “leave now” understand that he is in a rural area, and there are NO Anglican options, or even “more moderate” Episcopal options down the road thirty minutes. He can 1) go be a Baptist, or 2) convert to Rome and join the liberal RC parish.
This is what I said to him:
[blockquote]. . . the inside strategy for this kind of parish — one led by revisionists — is quite subtle.
What you do is you do a teaching thingy — as [the person in discussion] did — and you are generally active in the parish — lay reading, chalice, etc. Get to be known and liked through all of your good efforts.
And then offer to [i]host[/i] and be a facilitator of a small group at your house.
The fact that [the person in question’s] class was well attended and well received means that there is a market for his kind of teaching and thinking amongst the laity.
Believe me — a well-organized small group could quickly grow to bursting in a nice home with a couple or three well-known and well-regarded [usually for artificial reasons like his service in the church] facilitators.[/blockquote]
In the case of this particular Episcopalian, going and being the one voice of traditional reason on a vestry — all without knowing one’s fellow allies at the parish — would be insanity.
I hope this helps to clarify my position on strategic action and work.
LibraryJim,
Re: “It matters because their vote will legitimize the new North American Anglican Province and give more of a global voice to our plight over here.
They will make sure it is on the agenda, and it will pass.”
It will not pass.
Not only will it not reach the 2/3 majority necessary to pass, but it will not even reach half the Primates [assuming that all provinces are represented there].
Sarah,
If it doesn’t pass, we will see the end of the Anglican Communion as it has been known to us, as more dioceses and even provinces secede from the AC.
[i] There’s only one thing that could dynamite . . . the ABC out of his current position . . . and that is the conviction that the Anglican Communion is ending, with Primates who are leaving the Communion entirely [/i] —Sarah Hey [#20]
Even that might not do it. Merely leaving would too quiet, too placid, too inconspicuous. Abp. Williams and his allies could continue business as usual, telling themselves that the orthodox would eventually return.
The most effective way to jolt Williams out of his current position would be for the orthodox primates to [b]take effective control of the meeting[/b]. They could, for example:
— [i]Insist on discussing and acting on the real issues[/i], including ECUSA’s defiance of the Dar es Salaam resolution.
— [i]Meet among themselves before the official meeting[/i] to coordinate action and prepare to confront Williams.
— [i]Insist on dealing with the key issues up front[/i], so that the primates will have ample time to act on them. Refuse to get drawn into indabalating, table groups, and other busywork.
— [i]Get all important decisions reflected in writing[/i] before the meeting adjourns. Refuse to delegate anything important (e.g., assessing compliance) to Abp. Williams or his appointees.
— [i]Meet among themselves after the official meeting[/i]. That way Williams cannot jam them up against an adjournment deadline: their schedules and travel arrangements will permit them to stay beyond the scheduled adjournment time. Holding their own after-meeting would also serve notice that Williams should not expect to railroad them and then expect to have the last word.
By taking steps like these, the orthodox primates would let Williams know that if he refuses to provide the requisite leadership, others will begin to do so. No longer will massa’s word be law.
RE: “Even that might not do it.”
I agree, Irenaeus.
But it should be noted that they did 1, 2, and 4 at Dar. And they couldn’t really refuse to delegate the invitations to Lambeth — that’s his prerogative. They did the next best thing and met at Jerusalem.
RE: “If it doesn’t pass, we will see the end of the Anglican Communion as it has been known to us . . . ”
If that is so, then prepare for the end.
As I have said more than once before: God willing, eventually, there WILL be a province, other than TEc, of the Anglican Church in North America, with or without the ABC’s liking. How much kicking and screaming from the ABC this would take, I cannot say. But come, it shall.
A lot of North American Anglicans are watching, hoping and praying. There are far too many Episcopalians/Anglicans (lay and ordained) who are not courageous enough to make a lot of noise (and “troubleâ€), but they are simply waiting for the courageous ones (read Iker, and co.) to lead them to where they really want to be – which is definitely NOT where KJS and company are going and leading them.
Fr. Kingsley Jon-Ubabuco
Arlington Texas