“Most of our people are, frankly, tired of the struggle, but we don’t want to give up,” says the Rev. Paull Spring, who heads Lutheran Coalition for Reform, a group that opposes the ordination of clergy in openly gay relationships.
“There’s nothing personal attached to this at all,” he adds. “But it is a biblical concern. What does Holy Scripture teach about marriage, what does it teach about family, what does it teach about sexuality? It’s very clear: There is no support within Holy Scripture for this kind of relationship.”
Those wanting gay ministers disagree: They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.
Now that disagreement is being put to the test. And it looks as if the liberals have a good chance of winning.
Well … they’ll have a good chance of winning the vote, but killing the church in the process. Sometimes stupid goes clear to the bone.
“They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.”
You hear this all the time. I wish someone would come up with a scripture verse to back it up.
Amen, Jim. I have heard this too many times; it is an empty cliche that operates on the principle that if you say something often enough, eventually people will believe it. Larry
2. Jim the Puritan wrote:
[blockquote]“They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.â€
You hear this all the time. I wish someone would come up with a scripture verse to back it up.[/blockquote]
The last time I challenged someone on this, they referred me to Matthew 25.
Inclusive?
I don’t think so. Matthew 25 is the parable of the 10 virgins (guess what happened to the 5 foolish ones), the parable of the 3 stewards (guess what happened to the one who buried the talent) and the parable of the sheep and the goats (guess what happened to the goats).
He also referred to me to John 3:16 which, if I am not mistaken, puts a condition on eternal life.
And this was one of the leaders at General Convention.
There are a few “universalist” passages in the New Testament, but they are mostly in the Pauline corpus–and the GLBT crowd tries to avoid the Apostle.
But Jesus himself says, “For many are called, but few are chosen” (Matthew 22:14) and
[blockquote]Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. (Matthew 7:13-14)[/blockquote]
But I was told it was hyperbole and Jesus didn’t really mean it.
Could be, but he also said
[blockquote]”Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. (Matthew 7:15)[/blockquote]
And we all know that TEC is a bunch of prophets–of some sort.
Unfortunately, as a spiritual evolutionary throwback I’m still stuck on “Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God.” http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edwards/sermons.sinners.html
“The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.” Proverbs 1:7
It really bothers me when a false prophet teaches that you can do anything you like and it doesn’t matter to God. It’s one of the major problems I have with the Episcopal religion and mainstream liberal Christianity in general.
Did Christ go through crucifixion and death simply so that we could continue to live and exult in our sins? I think not. And when that is preached and done we crucify Him again and again. Hebrews 6:6
5. Jim the Puritan wrote:
[blockquote]It really bothers me when a false prophet teaches that you can do anything you like and it doesn’t matter to God. It’s one of the major problems I have with the Episcopal religion and mainstream liberal Christianity in general.[/blockquote]
Of course, the truth of the matter is that, according to the gospel of Jefferts Schori, you can’t do anything you want. Namely, you can’t take the property with you when you leave TEC.
[blockquote]Did Christ go through crucifixion and death simply so that we could continue to live and exult in our sins?[/blockquote]
Of course not! He went through all that for the MDGs.
The leadership of the ELCA and the liberal pastors try to reinterpret what St. Paul had to say about homosexuals. Charles Porterfield Krauth in his book “The Conservative Reformation and Its Theology” said that error in the church comes in three stages. It looks like the ELCA is going to be in the third stage. The possibility of ordaining gays was the final reason why I left the ELCA for the LC-MS.
Jesus did not change the truth so as to include folks who would not accept it otherwise.
[blockquote]“They say Jesus was all about including everyone in his work and mission.â€
You hear this all the time. I wish someone would come up with a scripture verse to back it up.[/blockquote]
They won’t, and they can’t. The people who say that are liars. Nothing more.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)