Advocates of change in the Lutheran denomination argue that their church has a responsibility to accept all its members equally. They point out that the new policy would be voluntary.
“We fully believe the church will be a better place and a better student for its mission if it is fully inclusive,” said Phil Soucy, a spokesman for Goodsoil, a coalition of gay rights groups in the church. “Christ did not discriminate.”
But those who favor traditional Lutheran positions on marriage believe the proposed policy reflects cultural norms rather than the word of God. They say a liberalized approach would drive away conservative Lutherans and undermine relations with other Christian denominations.
“A church ought to be focused on Jesus Christ and not voting on whether the Bible applies in terms of how humans are to live in a sexual relationship,” said the Rev. Mark Chavez, director of Lutheran Coalition for Reform.
[blockquote]On Monday evening, representatives in Minneapolis decided a simple majority would be sufficient for passage. The measure’s critics wanted to require a two-thirds majority.[/blockquote]Ouch. This represents the first loss for the traditionalists and will make passage of the same-sex clergy measure more likely, it seems.
Katherine,
The loses happened long before last night …
In 2000 I was invited by the national church council to join a group of three other pastors and make presentations concerning the potential for gay and lesbian clergy. I had served on the gay and lesbian taskforce in the sierra pacific synod and concerned myself a moderate orthodox. In the end I argued against gay and lesbian clergy, that there was/is no biblical or confessional basis for changing our understanding of marriage and family, BUT, I could agree to disagree if it could be shown how a change might impact mission in a positive direction. By the way, the most orthodox of us four has already gone home to Rome.
Long story short: in San Francisco we have a number of openly gay and lesbian clergy. Their churches are tiny. They didn’t use to be before their current pastors. If a gay pastor in San Francisco can’t make a go of it… what does that really tell us about the Spirit’s work? For as we say in our confessions, it is the Spirit who calls and gathers the church. If the church isn’t gathering, well, you get the point.
And because I wasn’t a hard-core advocate, once I was in the Bishop’s office I was targeted for career destruction. So I learned along the way. I was terribly wrong in my naive understanding of what was going on.
This movement we see displayed has nothing to do with mission of Jesus Christ. It has nothing to do with the Gospel. It is about a great evil that has taken root in the church and it will not quit until the Body of Christ is numerically reduced as well as no longer able proclaim a life-transforming Gospel. They are leading the ELCA to become a culturally safe church, unable to actually heal anything or anyone.
By the end of the week the ELCA’s profound apostasy will finally become public. As for me and my house … I’m already looking for the exits.
#1 Katherine,
Right you are. The outcome for Friday’s decisions is now a foregone conclusion. The opening-day vote on the rule to require a 2/3’s majority to pass the pro-gay policy-changing church standards on sexuality was 436 (42%) for, 584 (57%) against.
That likely will be the approximate ratio we will see on Friday. Schism? I doubt it. More like localized ruptures with slow leakage. The traditionalist and conservative-leaning bishops and theologians tend to be too old and tired and tied to health and retirement plans to join, let alone organize and lead, a new denomination. Many pastors and congregations will put on blinders and try to carry on as before.
A sadly broken milestone in Lutheran history.
w.w.
w.w.
See above. I suspect you are right on target. Even as the U.S. is the new mission field, requiring a great deal of passion and zeal to reach out to the secular neo-pagans in our communities, the ELCA has become just another dead-line vestige of what use to be a vibrant evangelical catholic church.
The devil has won this round and the sad thing is the leaders of this movement are clueless as to whose tool they really are.
How about the ACNA work with dissident ELCA congregations and dioceses (districts??) to fold them into a wider, more catholic ACNA? Would the orthodox Lutherans be willing to join with orthodox of a different denominational tradition? Would this work given the ACNA’s already rather loose confederation style of organization?
James,
Yesterday I spoke with someone in CANA’s office. We shall see.
Brian of Maryland, I am only a laywoman, and so I have not suffered what clergy have gone through, but my heart is just aching to think that another of Christ’s churches is going under. I will pray that you find a way forward with the Lord’s help.
Katherine, amen to that.
[blockquote] Advocates of change in the Lutheran denomination argue that their church has a responsibility to accept all its members equally. They point out that the new policy would be voluntary. [/blockquote]
Not for long.
Brian (#2, 4, 6),
You won’t be alone in heading for the exits. Fortunately, Columbia, MD, isn’t far from a lot of Anglican churches in northern VA (not to mention a few in MD itself). Similarly, maybe my friend Fr. Tim Fountain (rector of Good Shepherd, Episcopal) in my hometown of Sioux Falls, SD, can start making common cause with all the orthodox Lutherans out there.
What I think (or hope) we’re going to see is a truly massive realignment eventually take place across denominational lines. with conservatives banding together in unprecedented ways, Lutherans with Anglicans, Presbyterians with Methodists perhaps, Disciples of Christ folks with American Baptists, and so on. The fault lines [i]within[/i] denominations are now much bigger and deeper than they are between denominations.
I know that I have [b]FAR[/b] more in common with the evangelical catholic former pastor (retired in January) of nearby Reformation Lutheran Church here in Newport News, VA, than I do with ANY of the TEC clergy here (and there are several TEC parishes around).
It will take time, but I suspect more profound and far-reaching changes are coming down the pike than any of us can imagine right now. Because the New Reformation isn’t just for Anglicans, it’s for the whole Body of Christ, and especially for the old, historic “mainline” (Christendom style) churches in our post-Constantinian era.
David Handy+
Oh woe! I’ve just made a move to join an ELCA congregation after TEC crashed and burned. Now I feel I may live deja vu all over again. The only other option left for me is LCMS. How long will they be able to avoid being painted with the rainbow brush?
Dumb Sheep.
[blockquote] What I think (or hope) we’re going to see is a truly massive realignment eventually take place across denominational lines. with conservatives banding together in unprecedented ways, Lutherans with Anglicans, Presbyterians with Methodists perhaps, Disciples of Christ folks with American Baptists, and so on. The fault lines within denominations are now much bigger and deeper than they are between denominations. [/blockquote]
No. 11 New Reformation Advocate, have you read Thomas Oden’s book [i] The Rebirth of Orthodoxy? [/i] He addresses exactly this phenomenon. It’s an exciting and hopeful prospect.
The only other option left for me is LCMS. How long will they be able to avoid being painted with the rainbow brush?
A rainbow LCMS is no more likely than a rainbow pope.
Laura (#12),
Yes, I have read Oden’s book, [b]The Rebirth of Orthodoxy[/b], and I find it very inspiring and encouraging. I think he’s right. This is a very exciting time to be alive as a Christian, when such momentous things are happening.
Sort of reminds me of the line in Dickens ([b]Tale of Two Cities,[/b] I think): [i]”It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.”[/i]
David Handy+
ww, I think your point about conservative clergy and theologians being too tired and/or too tied to pensions held by the increasingly apostate leadership is more true day by day. Especially if you’re in an ultra-revisionist diocese. I’ve seen good priests go from righteous indignation to quiet resignation, hoping either for the Covenant process to somehow magically allow individuals and parishes to sign on and opt out of the accelerating train wreck that TEc is becoming, or I guess just wanting to hunker down and wait until they can retire. And there’s a lot of battle fatigue.
At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Elves or Ms. Hey, that’s why I’m increasingly convinced that an “inside strategy,” “third way,” “congregationalism on a diocesan level,” or whatever one wants to call it is noble but likely doomed.