Interesting that the home page of the organization presenting these findings highlights “Climate change is the defining issue of the 21st century.” I wonder if Jesus would say, “What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul”? were he to consider this claim. Or do other of his teachings seem more appropriate to consider in relation to this claim? Not that I don’t think we can profit from awareness of what others are saying about us and the various criteria (like this particular HDI) those others are claiming to use in their evaluations. That’s good to do even if sobering.
… Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Canada – all have same-sex civil marriage and all come above the US on the table… the other high-ranking European countries pretty much all either have civil partnership legislation already or are just bringing it in…
“The HDI – human development index – is a summary composite index that measures a country’s average achievements in three basic aspects of human development: health, knowledge, and a decent standard of living. Health is measured by life expectancy at birth; knowledge is measured by a combination of the adult literacy rate and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrolment ratio; and standard of living by GDP per capita (PPP US$).”
If someone can explain to me what that has to do with gay marriage, I will gladly explain to you what the mean temperature on Neptune has to do with the numbers of Ethiopian restaurants in Kalamazoo.
Of course, one can always find fault with the criteria chosen and wish other elements had been factored in, but when all is said and done, I think whatever value an annual index like this has lies in the trends it reveals over time. Hence the big jump up seven places by China is quite significant, I’d say.
As is the sad fact that not a single African country makes it into the top 50, yes FIFTY! Not one.
And among Asian countries, only Japan (#10), Singapore (#23), and Hong Kong (#24), make the top 25.
As for Latin America, the best on this list is Chile, way down at #44. Argentina is at #49, and Uruguay #50. Surprisingly, Mexico (#53) edges out Costa Rica (#54).
But Africa clearly dominates the very lowest tier. A stunning 19 of the worst 20 countries (out of 182 surveyed) are in subSaharan Africa. That speaks volumes about how desperately poor that continent is.
And makes the rapid growth of the Church there all the more impressive.
… or maybe it just shows, David, that the churches in the countries with the lowest human development are perhaps not best placed to stand in judgement over the others?
…because being able to discern the difference between right and wrong is intimately connected to whether one lives in a country with a high per capita gross domestic product.
David: I read the HDI report, and GDP is not the only criterion employed for human development in it. Things such as the number of women in senior positions in the work place, access of migrants to services, etc are not simply measures of GDP. Have you ever lived in Africa, I wonder? (I have) In which case, you would know what I mean – it’s not only poverty which is the problem.
Of course not–it’s a bunch of backward, unenlightened primitives unable to see the wonderfulness of gay marriage. Isn’t it obvious?
Here’s the point: you brought up the subject of same sex marriage, and seemed to be saying that there was some relationship between whether a country grants marriage and civil partnership rights to gays and its level of human development. Is that the case in Ireland? Iceland? Japan? Or do they just have large African populations? In any case, the fact that some nations that are high on the HDI also recognize gay marriage and civil partnerships says nothing–absolutely nothing–about the rightness or wrongness of such practices, nor does the fact that less developed nations (as well as most medium developed nations) don’t recognize them in any way support the practices.
If the Elves will permit me to answer David Fischler’s direct question to me; Ireland has a civil partnership bill going through Parliament at the moment; Iceland has had civil partnerships for some time. Japan is beyond my ken. And yes, it is a fact that the nations which are most developed discriminate least (my point was that those discriminating least against women gain high places on the HDI table). Isn’t that rather obvious? Do the African churches currently so critical of the C of E’s faltering steps in the direction of social justice themselves practise equality for women, I wonder?
I said “20” for the UK, but we’re beaten into 21st place by New Zealand!
Interesting that the home page of the organization presenting these findings highlights “Climate change is the defining issue of the 21st century.” I wonder if Jesus would say, “What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul”? were he to consider this claim. Or do other of his teachings seem more appropriate to consider in relation to this claim? Not that I don’t think we can profit from awareness of what others are saying about us and the various criteria (like this particular HDI) those others are claiming to use in their evaluations. That’s good to do even if sobering.
The top of the table is pretty much dominated by all those liberal countries that y’all seem to regard as in league with Satan…
… Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Canada – all have same-sex civil marriage and all come above the US on the table… the other high-ranking European countries pretty much all either have civil partnership legislation already or are just bringing it in…
From the HDR web site:
“The HDI – human development index – is a summary composite index that measures a country’s average achievements in three basic aspects of human development: health, knowledge, and a decent standard of living. Health is measured by life expectancy at birth; knowledge is measured by a combination of the adult literacy rate and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrolment ratio; and standard of living by GDP per capita (PPP US$).”
If someone can explain to me what that has to do with gay marriage, I will gladly explain to you what the mean temperature on Neptune has to do with the numbers of Ethiopian restaurants in Kalamazoo.
Oh, David (#5), that was just too funny!
Of course, one can always find fault with the criteria chosen and wish other elements had been factored in, but when all is said and done, I think whatever value an annual index like this has lies in the trends it reveals over time. Hence the big jump up seven places by China is quite significant, I’d say.
As is the sad fact that not a single African country makes it into the top 50, yes FIFTY! Not one.
And among Asian countries, only Japan (#10), Singapore (#23), and Hong Kong (#24), make the top 25.
As for Latin America, the best on this list is Chile, way down at #44. Argentina is at #49, and Uruguay #50. Surprisingly, Mexico (#53) edges out Costa Rica (#54).
But Africa clearly dominates the very lowest tier. A stunning 19 of the worst 20 countries (out of 182 surveyed) are in subSaharan Africa. That speaks volumes about how desperately poor that continent is.
And makes the rapid growth of the Church there all the more impressive.
David Handy+
… or maybe it just shows, David, that the churches in the countries with the lowest human development are perhaps not best placed to stand in judgement over the others?
…because being able to discern the difference between right and wrong is intimately connected to whether one lives in a country with a high per capita gross domestic product.
I suggest you stop digging, Father.
David: I read the HDI report, and GDP is not the only criterion employed for human development in it. Things such as the number of women in senior positions in the work place, access of migrants to services, etc are not simply measures of GDP. Have you ever lived in Africa, I wonder? (I have) In which case, you would know what I mean – it’s not only poverty which is the problem.
Of course not–it’s a bunch of backward, unenlightened primitives unable to see the wonderfulness of gay marriage. Isn’t it obvious?
Here’s the point: you brought up the subject of same sex marriage, and seemed to be saying that there was some relationship between whether a country grants marriage and civil partnership rights to gays and its level of human development. Is that the case in Ireland? Iceland? Japan? Or do they just have large African populations? In any case, the fact that some nations that are high on the HDI also recognize gay marriage and civil partnerships says nothing–absolutely nothing–about the rightness or wrongness of such practices, nor does the fact that less developed nations (as well as most medium developed nations) don’t recognize them in any way support the practices.
[i] This thread seems to be discussing only one aspect of the rankings. Please discuss the whole topic rather than just same sex marriage. [/i]
Elf Lady
If the Elves will permit me to answer David Fischler’s direct question to me; Ireland has a civil partnership bill going through Parliament at the moment; Iceland has had civil partnerships for some time. Japan is beyond my ken. And yes, it is a fact that the nations which are most developed discriminate least (my point was that those discriminating least against women gain high places on the HDI table). Isn’t that rather obvious? Do the African churches currently so critical of the C of E’s faltering steps in the direction of social justice themselves practise equality for women, I wonder?