A not-so-funny thing happened last month while I was on a business trip to Austria and Sweden: My country started to resemble a second-rate power. I saw it in three different places ”” at an international conference at the Benedictine Abbey at Melk in Austria, at a quiet public square in Stockholm and at the Los Angeles International Airport, when I got home.
At the Austria gathering, the Waldzell Institute held its annual meeting aimed at the spiritual development of society. The theme on the stage with the Dalai Lama was legacy, but the conversation among participants during breaks turned to America. The questions came not as accusations, but as laments: “What’s the matter with your country?”
The Europeans who come to this conference are worldly people who track what’s happening globally with an impartial eye. To them, China’s growth and dynamism is the most compelling story of the 21st century. “Dynamism” was the sort of word people once used when talking about the United States. Now, they watch us like rubberneckers driving past a car wreck. “You used to be such a great country,” they say. “Not even a country. What happened to the great idea that once defined America?”
It’s more than a fair question, and one that you can appreciate only when you are outside the bubble that passes for media and public discourse in the USA today. Because when you’re outside the bubble, only then do you realize how far the United States has drifted from its promise, how large the gap is between what we profess and what we do. What is important is how far short we are falling and, in some important ways, falling apart. From afar, you see how closed our once-open society has become; how diminished our economic superiority has become; and how worn our once impeccable image has become.
The Danish have a saying that translates into “home blind,” which is a malady that appears to be striking Americans.
One of those condescending articles which is almost impossible to answer, not because it is true, but because it has zero factual content, and depends on the author’s impressions of others’ views. Having had similar discussions, both at home and abroad, I have found, without exception, that the views of objective reality behind these opinions are the stuff of fun house mirrors.
Mr Webber: Surely a man of your worldly sophistication would feel more at home in a country that embraced the Nazis or tried to remain neutral and had to be rescued by those who take their responsibilities seriously.
As for security measures keeping our “friends” away – our “friends” didn’t lose 3000 people in a single attack. Our “friends” see no need to support the global war on terror unless it hits their own lands.
Mr Webber, it is not these “friends” who work to keep your whining lips free to speak. The last time I checked, emigration from this country was still legal; you may want to consider it….
Sorry, but I’ve traveled and lived abroad in widely varied societies and there’s no doubt in my mind that the greatest material blessing one can have is to be born a citizen of the United States. While there is much that is attractive about life in many countries, and much to lament in what passes for popular culture in the US, we remain the nation that affords its citizens the most liberty of any country on earth. We have also done more good in the world than any nation since the demise of the British Empire.
If we sucked like he thought, there’s be enough American expats for major US paper’s websites to have sections for them, the way the Brit papers do. They don’t.
Rather, some of the readers of this post probably had to stop for a second to think of what an expat was, because the term is uncommon in American English.
perhaps Mr. Webber can explain why people from THE WORLD OVER are clamoring to get into our 2nd rate country. but perhaps not.
Why do we care what the Europeans think? Europe is dead, and will not recognizably exist in a century. Let the dead bury their own dead.
carl
It’s the old colonial mentality that has never died out here. Emerson decried it, but it has never left. A certain percentage of the US populace will, particularly the self-described “intellecutals”, will always look down upon the US and whinge about how we aren’t Europe. Been going on since 1607 in Jamestown, I suspect, if not earlier in Florida. But each article sounds as if they think it’s something new.
There have been a lot of changes over here since our two skyscapers were incinerated by two airliners. I have changed a lot of my views about the world and lots of others have too. I do not care what Austria of Denmark think.
Actually, the most striking thing about traveling abroad is how wealthy the average American is. The cleanliness of our airports and of our cities in general has always been second rate (and used to be worse, particularly in New York) and has to do with culture, not wealth. The low dollar means a lot of things, but that the US is not the leading producer of wealth in the world is not one of them.
His remark about security is true to a degree, but only in airports. In other ways we have less security than some other countries. The perception is distorted because we otherwise have more personal freedom here than in other countries.
To the extent he is warning that we should be concerned about China more, I also tend to agree. Not because they are the powerhouse to emulate, but because they are getting so involved in things around the world it will have far-reaching consequences if things go wrong there.
Ok, I surely qualify as an international traveller. I’m writing this from a hotel in Dakar, Senegal where I’m enjoying lunch and have been catching up on e-mail and the blogs after a week of meetings. I’ll be flying to another African country this evening…
On the decline of the dollar. Oh yes, it’s painful for those of us who live and work abroad. But just perhaps the ridiculous price tag of that meal in Sweden can be blamed on the ridiculous cost of meals in most of Europe? Even long before the recent dramatic rise in the Euro, I recall being shocked at the cost of a continental breakfast in Parisian cafes. $8-10 for a croissant and small cafe au lait. These days that would be about $13 or maybe more. But was even $10 reasonable? Even if the dollar suddenly rose 20% against the Euro, bringing the Euro back to 120 from 140, that meal in Sweden would still have cost $80 for 4 salads and 4 drinks. Outrageous.
Here in Senegal, the exchange rate is much worse than the last time I was here 3 years ago. But nonetheless, my lunch of a lovely large salade nicoise, fresh-squeezed grapefruit juice, and an espresso will be costing about $10. Perfectly reasonable given this is a hotel.
And as for airports, yes there are some nice airports in Europe. Heathrow is a favorite (wonderful shops and excellent service, I was given incredible help a few years ago to make a way too short but necessary connection). Schipol is quite amazing. But has anyone flown via Charles de Gualle? It’s got to be the worst major airport in the world. I’ve missed flights there twice in the past 3 years because of security screening delays of over an hour and their unwillingness to let those of us who had flights being called move up to the front of the line…
China is not historically an expansionist power. China is not a natural enemy of the United States, nor will it maintain its Communist facade much longer. There is no reason for the US to fear the rise of China. A Sino-American axis would be a good thing for the world.
carl
To summarize the above remarks: Who cares what the rest of the world thinks? We are Americans and we know best.
For commentary: Read the Windsor Report.
To me this sounds a lot like the Greeks looking across the Adriatic and clucking about Rome sometime in the second century A.D. There is no question that the Pax Americana of the 1990’s is long gone, but for my money the Goths will get to Stockholm long before they get to LAX.
I’m also a bit mystified by the writer’s take on American security. It was in Europe, not America, that I got used to regularly seeing military hardware (armored vehicles and men armed with automatic weapons) as a regular part of travel.
There is no question that Charles de Gaulle in Paris is absolutely the worst airport in the world. It must have been designed by schizophrenics and managed by bureaucrats.
I actually agree with the author that America has many problems.
So it is surprising to see the rather shallow reasons and examples he gives of why he thinks that America is “in decline”.
Mine would of course be quite different . . . abortion on demand being one of them.
Dale, LOL. Touché! Yes, we Americans can be very self-absorbed and unwilling to hear the rest of the world. But I just didn’t find the author’s examples all that convincing, with the possible exception of the discussion re: a sense of paranoia. Yet, having had friends who were in both the WTC and the Pentagon on Sept 11 (they all survived, thankfully), and having another friend who had been booked on United 93 but changed his flight plans the day before to head out to San Francisco a day early, I confess I do understand why Sept. 11th changed most Americans’ perception of risk so dramatically. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect something so terrifying to be shaken off lightly and NOT change people OR a nation.
The ‘barbarians’ (militant Muzzies) are already mostly in control of Malmo, Sweden’s third-largest city. And according to papers published by Swedish economists, Sweden would rank 51st as a US state, and average income there is currently below that of black Americans as a group.
Birth rates in Italy, Spain, and other ‘important’ countries are so low that their populations are likely to drop by 50% before mid-century. There are long waiting lists of French citizens applying for US residency. And so on.
The US has its share of challenges and problems, but I’ll willingly take it over anyplace else … that after having lived more than 20 years of my adult life outside the US, and even though I’m linguistically comfortable in over half a dozen European languages.
Nice museum, but you don’t really want to live there.
Carl, you must not be a Christian in China, trying to worship outside of State-controlled churches. The repression of religious freedom in China, along with human rights issues, are troubling.
To the article, one word: Bull. Make that two words if you prefer the alternative phrasing.
Try going through customs in Milan. 3 hours with people who had obviously not bathed in weeks. Yes, we do have a certain paranoia. But USA Today (this author’s paper), NY Times, Wash Post and LA Times are the biggest contributors to that with their biased reporting and editorials. These papers seem to forget that the rest of the world takes what they say seriously, even if most of us in the US know they are pushing their own agendas. #7, above, is absolutely correct. In addition, the liberal NE “intelligensia” of our country simply love to find fault everywhere in our country, as long as a Republican is in the White House. That “fault finding” spills over into all facets of life, and especially into the international arena. The old saying, “if you don’t respect yourself, how can anyone else respect you,” plays out on the international stage as well as in small group settings.
dale rye,
great comment, i wholeheartedly agree. i personally love europe, what i have seen of it and wish we were more attuned as a country to what is happening around the world, we are a great country but why can we not admire other countries? it is almost considered a sin here if we do not to look down our noses at europe. this may be a bit frivolous, i mean does anyone here know that the rugby world cup is happening right now? i just started watching it and think that it is absolutely the most exciting game i have ever seen. but not a pip about it in the media and the usa even competed in it! i love being of european ancestry in america, these are my roots-without my ancestors i wouldn’t be here…
# 11: “China is not historically an expansionist power.”
Want Ti-bet on that?
Whoever admires China today should have a good word for the slave trade of old as well. Whether China can maintain its breakneck pace of growth is far from certain. It has some serious demographic problems rising (gender imbalance), along with a government that officially holds to an ideology that it rejects in practice. Someone’s gonna notice one day … The interesting question for readers of this blog is, I think, whether China’s Christians will provide leadership at this critical juncture of empty ideology, materialism, corruption, and enormous inequality.
#22
In many European circles, both conservative and liberal, it’s considered de rigeur to look down your nose at the USA. It seems Mr. Webber has perhaps been moving in these circles for too long.
As punishment for this article, the author should be forced to re-read it in ten years time. Sweden may very well cease to exist in any meaningful way within this century, the land of Beowulf, the Vikings and the Normans gone forever. China has probably already peaked as a world economic force given its aging population and a crushing demographic bill coming due. Remember Japan in the 1980’s. And comparing the airports of Stockholm, Vienna and Frankfort to JFK, LAX, and O’Hare is, to say the least, apples and oranges. A more appropriate comparison would be to my home airport, Albany, NY, the easiest airport to use by far of any I have ever seen. But of course it serves a population of just under a million people, so life is easy.
Europe is nice. It is especially nice if you are not trying to get ahead in its stagnant socio-economic environment. And it is nicest of all when you are an affluent American visiting or working there temporarily, as we were when the franc was ten to the dollar and the pound sterling and dollar were at parity. But even then you really did want to stay away from CDG airport and you had to acquire a taste for tanks and automatic weapons on the boulevards.
Re #11: One of my favorite “What if?” scenarios in world history happened sometime during AD 116, when the Roman military reached its farthest eastern advance into the Parthian empire (near modern Baghdad) at the same time that the Han Empire had extended its reach the farthest to the west. The two armies were within a day’s march of one another, but apparently did not come into contact.
I think we can only say that China is not historically expansionist in the same sense that we can say that Italy is not historically expansionist… both have been constrained for much of their history by internal strife and powerful neighbors, but both have shown the potential to build historically unmatched empires.
As someone who regularly travels to Europe (and eaten plenty of meals there, from cheap sandwiches to fairly expensive restaurants), all I can say is . . . well, it’s a sad day when I agree with Dale Rye.
I consider most of the comments here as proof positive of the accuracy of Webber’s observations.
This view of Europeans as “objective” is strange. If you live abroad and read only the newspapers fed by the New York Times, the BBC, Reuters, and watch CNN, you won’t recognize your country. Germans and French enjoy sneering at America which sweeping their own problems under the rug. And this extends to other regions. It was amusing, and irritating, to have Indians ask me about the terrible race problems in the U.S. (CNN was running a series) when they themselves are astoundingly color-conscious and have a 2500-year-old class system which has barely changed despite official efforts. And the German expats I knew in India liked living there because prices are so high at home that they can’t afford to take the family out to lunch, much less eat dinner in a restaurant.
And don’t fly through De Gaulle if you can avoid it. It’s awful even when they’re not on strike.
Actually, if you live in the U.S. and read only newspapers fed by the NY Times, Wash Post, LA Times, and watch CNN, you may not know your country very well either. We had an interesting conversation with a Kenyan taxi driver in NC when we left home two days ago. He said that he has a hard time talking to blacks in America whose families have been there for generations — as opposed to recent African immigrants — because they complain about “poverty” when they’ve never seen the poverty he left. He loves the U.S. We’re not perfect by any means, but I do think some of the overseas critics are suffering from a tenth-commandment failure.
My sister is an official of a Florida city government whose City Manager spent three weeks in China a year ago. He came back shell-shocked at what he saw: a vibrant growing economy and a degree of entrepreneurship that has surpassed in his view our own. He told my sister that he now sees America as a second-rate country.
I have travelled and even lived for a time in Europe over the past several years, and I can attest to the attitudes towards America that are expressed in the article. Until we are willing to listen to those abroad who admire America and feel we have lost our way, we will go on being the declining country we presently are, all the while being in denial about the facts of the matter.
I hope the next administration, of whatever party, will work hard to undo the terrible policies and failures of the present one.
27, perhaps so, until you read the article, rather than just the excerpt. What a load of rubbish. America isn’t perfect, but that doesn’t mean I should accept newspaper articles that are shoddily researched if at all.
Paranoia: US security measures are still far less invasive than what I experianced in Europe pre-9/11. I have not yet seen US army troops chase street vendors through the streets with assault rifles, as I did on my first night in Europe.
Face Value: Yeah, the dollar is low at the moment. What of it? Currencies fluctuate. There are good and bad sides to both overvalued and undervalued currency. They sort out over time. The author of this article realyl needs to find a middle school level economics book and read it.
Subpar Facilities: What’s his point? Yes, new airports are nicer than old. This holds true if we are comparing new Euro airports to old American, or vice versa. What’s his point? To say a civilization is in decline because the airport you happen to travel to is an older one strikes me as at best childish.
But Italy isn’t a unified cultural and historical entity like China has been for thousand of years. It’s an accident of geography. Sure, there’s an Italian culture, but it’s branch of Western culture, not Western Culture itself. And it wasn’t Italy that created the Roman empire, it was Rome which created the Roman Empire, starting with its Italian neighbors
#32 is responding to #26
30: I agree, Bob, if those people who think we’ve lost our way have valid points. Not all do. Socialism is still popular, for example, and we’d be utter idiots to follow that path. We musn’t fall into the trap of simply aping the euros no matter what.
China has always been entrepenurial when their government allows. Look at Hong Kong or Taiwan or Singapore. It isn’t surprising that when you remove the dead hand of the State from their shoulders that they grow. The worrisome bit is that we seem to crave the dead hand more and more here.
[blockquote]I consider most of the comments here as proof positive of the accuracy of Webber’s observations.[/blockquote]
Webber would be more convincing except that his observations would turn in an instant given (from a European perspective) one favorable election result in the US. Europe isn’t the ‘world’ in any case. It’s not even an especially important part of the world anymore. It can’t even find the will to reproduce itself. It’s a degenerate cirrhotic old man covered in syphillus chancres. And its opinions should be given no more weight then its terminal state warrants.
carl
Interesting to see how this discussion is shaping up. I think there’s truth on both sides that Americans can too easily scoff at Europe (particularly France!) and vice-versa.
And I do think there’s a certain malaise in the US these days. It does concern me. But we’ve seen these things turn around before. Think Carter – Reagan. A new administration no matter who wins next year’s election is likely to bring some new energy and vibrancy, I imagine. Right now feels like a holding pattern.
BTW, I’m now at the Dakar airport and quite floored to discover free Wi-Fi. Who’d of thunk it! What fun…
I have lived and worked in America for 65+ years – I know something about it. My father’s generation shed a lot of blood, sweat and tears to preserve the right of some Europeans to look down their noses at us.
Are we perfect – of course not. Is there another place in the world I would want to live? No.
36, I think you hit the nail on the head. People tend to have too short of a memory. Pull back the zoom to 25 years, or better yet 50, and things make more sense and patterns emerge.
And it is amazing how things like wi-fi have spread. Technology is amazing.
While I do not quite agree with the upbeat picture of China (reports I’ve seen indicate that it is in fact suffering serious growing pains, especially ecologically), I must say it is a strange day indeed when I find myself ranged together with Bob from Boone and Dale Ryle.
How interesting it is the hear that Europe (which stretches from Ireland to at least the Urals and from the Black Sea the Baltic and whose population exceeds the US) is now unimportant. Would I rather live there than here? No. Do I fear for my country’s future if we don’t learn from BOTH Europe’s example AND Europe’s mistakes? Yes.
The price of a restaurant meal is anecdotal evidence. The precipitous decline of the dollar in order to finance . . . well, fill the blank . . . is not. It will take years to undo the damage this administration has done, and it isn’t only the (alleged) liberal media that is saying so.
BfB: If you think Chiina is such a fine place, by all means live there. (See here Jim Fallows, about two months a go in Atlantic?) My son was a Chinese major at Colby and is back in China for the third time at Qinghua University. He has been all over China – spent his first tour in ShenZhen (I meant to put the Fallows citation here. Fallows remarks that the entrepreneur he talked to summed up china’s stare presently as :Happy with crappy.”
You cannot breath the air, the water in undrinkable, the general pollution so widespread that even so centralized a power as China cannot deal with it. The Old China is disappearing with astonishing speed. My son told me that in three days, a whole quarter would be leveled, iin three days the foundations poured for the next high rise. The people have become utterly rapacious as China enters what we used to call the era of the Robber Barons.
I have studied China all my life and wha I see is frightening. The water shortage alone is staggering, and when the country, giant aquaduct or not, really feels the final pinch, then there is no telling what will happen in the rest of the world. I assume gigantic desalinization plants. Remember now that major rivers in China no longer have any water left when the reach the sea.
Tha China has never -well, rarely – been expansionist over the last 2000 years means nothing. Their world has changed utterly, and they are as now as economically dangerous as we are for precisely the same reasons. What’s coming? Warfare from within, as the nung min out in the countryside finally demand some piece of the action – and we are talking here about many millions of people – more indeed than in the entire US. LM
I don’t look down my nose at Europe and like much of it and many Europeans. And much of Europe does not look down its nose at the US. On both sides, our media let us down. But Webber’s simple proposition, as I understood it, was that the US is a declining economic power based on his anecdotes. Europe is many things, but an economic power overtaking the US it is not.
China is booming. #11 should understand I am not concerned about its political expansionist tendencies. Its increasing economic integration will probably mitigate that. I’m just afraid that it is at risk of becoming a bubble. Many of the things #40 says are true. And its increasing investment throughout the world makes that a little scary should it suffer a hard landing. Not necessarily catastrophic, just painful.
The decline of the dollar? I think that is complicated and due to many factors. I don’t think it has anything to do with the some sort of systemic decline below those of the rest of the world.
The best airports are in Asia.
The dollar is in decline because we buy more foreign stuff than we should. If we all tried harder to buy American that would help – the wife and I are in the process of replacing her volkswagon with a GMC Acadia. and just because we are paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get us. The fact is that with the possible exception of the UK most of Europe is a second rate or third rate power. The price of being a first rate power is high.
i don’t understand all the europe bashing-isn’t our beloved denomination from a part of ‘old europe’? isn’t a lot of our culture and tradition here in the good old usa from ‘old europe’? i get it that no one likes to hear criticism but sometimes it is healthy to take an objective look at oneself isn’t it?
For an enlightening view of the roots of European anti-Americanism, read Jean Francois Revel’s book Anti-Americanism. He sees it arising from a combination of factors such as ignorance, envy, and a sense of inferiority.
At the same time, we need to be honest and admit that the American entrepeneurial spirit can be brash and offensive in its boundless self-confidence. I don’t think most Americans look down at Europe; more likely they are just ignorant about Europe.
Of course there is irony close at hand when we consider that some of the fiercest domestic critics of America’s unilateralism are leading proponents of TEC’s unilateralism, so criticized by the large majority of worldwide Christianity
[blockquote] [N]o one likes to hear criticism but sometimes it is healthy to take an objective look at oneself isn’t it? [/blockquote]
Criticism is only heard from those you respect. And what exactly is there to respect in Europe anymore? Hedonism? Nihilism? Craven appeasement? Weakness? Cowardice? Sterility? The quest for the perfect orgasm? Let the Europeans pull the log from their own eye before they dare comment on our problems.
They call us a second-rate power. When Bosnia put the lie to their whole “Post-War Europe” myth, they could not of themselves do anything to stop it, but instead came crawling to the US. (Suddenly UN mandates for the use of force were not so important.) They could not summon the ability to project power into a country on their own continent even in the face of their own accusations of genocide. What is there left to respect?
carl
Having been born in the UK and having voted with my feet to emigrate to the USA, I can confidently say that Europe, while full of lovely places, museums, ancient historical sites and yes, some very wonderful folks, is not a vibrant place where new things are developed.
The dead hands of culture, class & government imposed regulation combine to suppress most entrepreneurial activity and opportunity and certainly, vibrancy of expectancy. The elites still have the attitude that if the peasants receive sufficient bread and circuses, they will keep in their places.
This downward spiral in W. Europe has been going on for generations, really since the bloodletting of WWI and two or three salient points have become vividly clear:
1) There is no will left in Western Europe to defend itself. Even 60 years after D-Day, Europe still calls on the US to come in to resolve another of their tribal squabbles, this time in Kosovo. They are anable, unwilling or incapable of doing the job, themselves.
This reminds me of when Roman citizens refused to enter the legions, the empire was forced to hire barbarians to guard the borders. Perhaps, the modern Euros see the USA as modern hired barbarians so hence, their disdain of those who keep them free?
2) There is no will in Western Europe, to suffer any economic drain to their effete existances. Therefore, the no longer have children in sufficient numbers to preserve their populations. The result to this drop off in birthrates, will be to open up a vacuum which will be filled by waves of people, with other faiths, other traditions and a much greater vitality.
3) Finally, secular humanism and social engineering has so captured Euro thought patterns, that the entire land mass of Western Europe is becoming ever more unchurched. They have lost their religion.
What is to become of a society that loses its vitality, its willingness to be self-sacrificial to ensure the future, or its faith?
carl,
i am curious; which countries do you respect? would you be willing to listen to any criticisms?
[blockquote] I am curious; which countries do you respect? would you be willing to listen to any criticisms? [/blockquote]
This is an interesting and difficult question, and frankly one I did not anticipate. Much depends on the subject and the nature of the criticism. A nation which is serious about its place in the world, and its use of power could provide valid criticism on one subject but not on another. It’s hard to give general rules, because all of western civilization is infected with the same virus that killed Europe. And the acceptability of criticism from nations beyond western civilization must always be surronded with qualifiers.
But without some spiritual awakening, Europe will never again occupy this position. It is a universally weak and degenerate continent. It has only two sources of credibility: 1) it has grown rich under American protection, and 2) it stood astride the world 100 years ago. But it no longer stands astride the world. And its riches will be consumed by its own hedonistic pursuits.
carl
While I agree that the writer’s “evidence” was uncompelling and anecdotal, I do agree with his concerns. The dollar is nearly worthless and foreign investors are selling off. On the other side of the equation, we are overly indebted to China and they have us by the na-nas — I saw a report last night stating that the Chinese are looking to buy up American financial firms. Remember China’s warning a few months ago, stating that if we continue to criticize them, they could call in our debt?
Russia’s increasing the rhetoric and backing Iran. Would Putin do that if he feared retribution? If he feared our strength? This country is mired in debt and in an interminable war. Our enemies are smelling blood. I’m very concerned about our future if Americans refuse to remove their rose-colored glasses and remain self-satisfied.
What a load of crap!
I was in Germany for a week in September and Japan for a week in October. In neither place did I get anything like this type of comment. Both places welcomed me warmly as an american and the clammoring to be able to hang out with an american in Japan was truly amazing.
Perhaps it was because I was there for business and not hanging around with people on “spiritual journeys” that I got a different reception. But in both places people were just friendly and happy.
Maybe it’s the church ladies who need to stop judging lest they be judged?
[N]o one likes to hear criticism but sometimes it is healthy to take an objective look at oneself isn’t it?
We get enough criticism from our own press and from TLWC (The Liberal Whining Conspiracy) to last for twenty lifetimes. Besides, Europe is a continent, not a country, regardless of the Euro, or how many “meetings” with no meaning they call together. One can’t really compare the two (US and Europe) can one?