Gordon Brown, Britain’s next prime minister, on Sunday promised a foreign policy that recognizes that defeating terrorism is as much a struggle of ideas as a military battle – a lesson he said was drawn from Iraq.
As he took control of the governing Labour Party from Tony Blair, Brown said Britain would “learn lessons that need to be learned.”
Britain’s future foreign policy will “reflect the truth that to isolate and defeat terrorist extremism now involves more than military force,” Brown told a conference of party members in Manchester, northern England.
“It is also a struggle of ideas and ideals that in the coming years will be waged and won for hearts and minds here at home and round the world.”
The struggle against Marxism was certainly one of ideas, as well as a military struggle.
But I’m not so sure the one against Islamism is one of ideas. The only “idea” or argument they ever seem to advance, is “submit or we’ll kill you.”
Wilfred [#1]: Islamists are probably a minority of all Muslims and weapon-wielding Islamists are surely a tiny minority of all Muslims. There is huge scope for a struggle of ideas and ideals.
How does one reason with a person or group who only want you dead? What would one say? Where does one begin? What possible conclusion will there be other than your death?
But, you might ask, can’t we change their mind about us?
A few – likely. All of them – no chance whatsoever.
So the questions remain; Where can the discussions begin with some expectations of a reasonable conclusion?
DonGander
Something unctuous this way comes.
Reasoning with terrorists … I’m sure that will prove helpful.
The book “Answering Only to God: Faith and Freedom in Twenty-First-Century Iran” by Geneive Abdo and Jonathan Lyons is a little out of date but it is an excellent analysis of the factions among the clerics in Iran.
For a taste of the thinking in Iran please see the Iranian president’s letter: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12984.htm.
There is a Muslim revival sweeping the Middle East and the main agenda is to deal with the corrupt regimes in the region, Israel, and the corruption from the west. In the 70’s it was common to see Iranian women in southern Tehran fully covered in their chador and to see American women or teenagers in the North wearing shorts and tank tops. How do you think American women are perceived in the Middle East where it is unacceptable for a woman to even shake hands with a man who is not a relative?
What Khatami, one of the senior Iranian clerics visited Washington DC he met with Bishop John Chane. Although I disagree with Chane on key theological points he definitely has the right idea on this one. One of the challenges is that western governments see ‘winning hearts and minds’ as a secular challenge or a role for the government but in the Mid East it is clearly seen as a theological discussion as indicated by President Ahmadi-Najad’s letter.
amen gordon brown
September 11, 2001, changed our lives, and since then we have been a nation living in fear. That fear has led us to accept policies that promised to end our vulnerability, yet we must still go to the roots of terrorism for an effective response.
We have seen the outcome of the right-wing mantra that “either you with us or you are against us.” We have witnessed the results of Bush’s preemptive wars coupled with global bullying dressed in the fig leaf of the “coalition of the willing”.
In the wake of Iraq and Abu Ghraib, the world has lost trust in our purposes and our principles. The Bush Regime’s ideology, their agenda, and their actions are at the heart of this failure.
“Reasoning with terrorists … I’m sure that will prove helpful.” –MD Brian, #5
“How does one reason with a person or group who only want you dead?” —#3, Don Gander
Brian [#5]: Who has proposed reasoning with terrorists?
Don Gander [#3]: The world has roughly 1 billion Muslims. Their hearts and minds are among those at issue here. Do they all want you dead?
Bob [#7]: Abu Ghraib was a disaster but the Bush ideology of promoting democracy is equivalent to the Carter administration’s policy of promoting human rights some 30 years ago. The muslim world distrusted our motives before the Bush administration and will even when the democrats are back in the White House. The first attack on the twin towers occurred under Clinton and the planning for the second was underway during the Clinton ‘Regime’. Osama Bin Laden got his early war experience fighting in Afghanistan with fighters supplied and trained by the Carter ‘regime’.
This is a very long term struggle. The Ottoman Empire began in the fourteenth century and collapsed in World War I when the Brits and the French carved up the ME. The ME was in a sort of suspended animation while it was under the control of the Ottoman Empire. The ME has not yet had their renaissance. They still have monarchs and tyrants and have not worked out the relationship between secular and religious power let alone democracy.
I agree that “we must still go to the roots” but which purposes do you think the “world” had, but “lost trust in” when you write “the world has lost trust in our purposes and our principals”?
Theo van Gogh tried reasoning with his Moslem assailant. He was shot 8 times, stabbed, & half-decapitated. And I’m sure Mr van Gogh was very articulate in expressing his ideas.
This jihad against us was not started because of George Bush or even Abu Grab. And it will continue after Mr Bush is out of office. Muddled thinking (e.g., #7) won’t help us.
Wilfred [#10], are you saying it is pointless to reason with Muslims?
wilfred, i mourn for theo van gogh – along with the thousands of others victims of violence perpetrated under the name of radical Islam. I do him & all the others a dis-service if I forfeit my principes & values to “get even” – it is precisely what these people depend on in our response.
#9
what principles ? honesty, for starters. respect for life – all life, not just u.s. citizens or the unborn. justice – economic & social. honor – among our global partners & our armed forces. duty – supporting our troops, our first responders & all who serve. sacrifice – for a greater communal good.
#11 John, Well, let’s just say I don’t think Salman Rushdie is alive today because of all the cogent arguments and witty ripostes he can wield against the jihadi .
“Well, let’s just say I don’t think Salman Rushdie is alive today because of all the cogent arguments and witty ripostes he can wield against the jihadi.”
Wilfred [#13]: Your reply to John’s question [#11] is insultingly unresponsive. Looks like the itch for a “witty riposte” triumphed over any attempt at a reasoned reply.
But I think Wilfred’s 13 has a point, despite the fact that it is a feeble argument.
… or is the problem more basic. Having seemingly cast off the need for God, might it just be possible that citizens of western civilization cannot fathom a possible reality of evil? I note: it’s not just the countries in the West who are combating jihadi terrorists. The Saudis, Turks, Jordanians and now Iraqis are also trying to push them back into the dark holes from which they’ve sprung. The Russians also have their own problems, but we don’t hear much about that these days. Then there is the Sudan and other parts of Africa.
Unlike Bob’s rosey picture above, I’m one who actually believes these people really do want us dead and they’ll stop at nothing to bring that about. And blaming it all on the current president demonstrates a profound disconnection with reality. In reality, both France and Germany recently elected pro-US leaders, hardly actions of nations who think we’re off the rails when it comes to understanding what’s really at stake. Considering the nightly car burnings in Paris (which hardly ever show up in our press), think maybe even French citizens have also come to understand that’s going on?
Maryland Brian
The issue of Sir Salman Rushdie as he is known in Tehran and Islamabad typifies the volatility of feeling. Until relatively recently Britain’s relations with the Arab world were pretty good and still remain warm in some quarters. As far as I can see the Muslim world is not one homogenous whole any more than Bosnia was. More a complex patchwork of ethnic, tribal and different theological groups, quite often at odds with each other.
Like Ireland it is not possible to understand the problems without tackling the history; why the Shia, followers of Ali are the poor, historically persecuted and fastidious group they are and the Sunni are different again and then split into further sub-groups.
There are issues which act like running sores with these real people and it is important to try to deal with them. We have to be aware of our own assumptions which can colour our way of dealing with them. For example a dispensationalist take has its own pre-conceptions which may not always be helpful.
As ever knowledge and sensitivity and respectfully listening to the complaints of the mainstream while remaining vigilant to protect ourselves remains a well tried method. Ireland took a generation and a lot of hard listening and negotiation to move forward.
We found out in Malaya that the policy of hearts and minds pioneered by Sir Robert Thompson was the only way of dealing with domestic terrorism. Giving the dispossessed a stake in the future of the society while cutting off the terrorists from their sources of finance and support by protecting those they intimidated worked well there and has proved a model for other such situations.
A cocky interviewer asked the Saudi ambassador in London what his country what he was going to do about the terrorists in his country. The ambassador tellingly but courteously replied that his country did not have a problem, our country did.
Insofar as our government is prepared to take this further on that would be good news.
#13 Wilfred, according to the Economist “Sir Salman was forced into a decade of hiding when Ayatollah Khomeini, then the Supreme Leader of Iran, issued a death warrant against him as punishment for the book’s unflattering depiction of the Prophet Muhammad. The fatwa was lifted in 1998, but not before the novel’s Japanese translator had been murdered and scores more injured in anti-Rushdie rioting around the world.” What the article does not mention is that the fatwa was lifted as part of a *negotiated* agreement between Britain and Iran. The rioting that has followed the fatwa has been in non-Shiite regions which indicates fairly broad support for attacking Rushdie.
I agree with you that words alone are inadequate. There must be a comprehensive strategy. One of the key areas we must talk with Muslim regimes and clerics is on what is taught in schools and in the Mosques. We also need to hear in what ways we are perceived as being unfair or immoral.
On a personal level I am fascinated by other perspectives and I try to promote the Gospel and democracy at any opportunity. I find as long as I am respectful and listen first, most people are willing to listen even if we don’t always agree.
#12 Bob, I think almost everyone would say they agree with the values you list. The most critical value that has lost credibility is the value of democracy.
#17, Regarding “what the Saudis are doing”: From a May 3rd article in the Economist “But last week’s announcement by the Saudi authorities was the most dramatic. Seven separate al-Qaeda cells have been busted in recent months, they said, netting no fewer than 172 suspected operatives as well as big stashes of weapons and $5m-plus in cash. The sweep was especially striking since the kingdom remains a prime source of both recruitment and finance, particularly for al-Qaeda in Iraq.
After a spate of bombings in 2003 and 2004 jolted many Saudis out of complacency, strong police action reduced the rate of terrorism. A state-sponsored ideological campaign, promoted by formerly radical preachers, appeared to mute public expressions of support for jihadism. Police also say they convinced some 1,000 extremist detainees to repent through religious re-education and financial incentives. Some former radicals, including 65 released from American custody in Guantánamo Bay, have benefited from $30m in state aid, including monthly stipends, cars, dowry payments and wedding presents.”
John,
The Saudis also don’t mess around when it comes to crime in their kingdom. For all the “gifts” they are showering about, there is the understated alternative … lose a hand, lose your head, etc.
Maryland Brian
MD Brian,
Iraq, as anyone paying even the scantest attention now knows, had zero to do with 9/11. Saddam and Osama? Hated each other. Iraq hiding massive Costco-size warehouses of WMDs, big nasty biotoxins and nuclear warheads and giant boxes of Red Devil firecrackers? A nasty joke, told by Bush, at Americans’ expense.
The 9/11 terrorists were mostly Saudi. Suicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi. And we’re allies?
Saudi women cannot vote. They are not allowed to drive. Political prisoners in Saudi Arabia are regularly tortured. Journalists are regularly arrested and persecuted and beaten for being too outspoken against the deeply repressed and closed kingdom. Human rights groups have been appalled by the oppressive and dictatorial Saudi society for years, perhaps no more so than following 9/11, when scrutiny was at an all-time high due to the obvious Saudi kingdom’s connections to al Qaeda and terrorism.
I fear you’ve proven my point about values in a time of battle. MD Brian.
Bob,
.. and in the spirit of talking past one another … I believe you have also nicely made my point too. There were connections between terrorist groups and Iraq as Saddam provided safety to terrorist training camps. WMD’s were found, though most seem to continue to spew the lie that none were there. As per connections to 9/11, if memory serves me correctly, that connection was never made as explicit as opponents seem to suggest. The connection was to terrorists, Iraq’s WMD programs/weapons and materials and the potential to distribute same. The inability to recognize evil is, IMHO, part of the West’s problem.
The president also said Iran was a major player in terrorism. Anyone giving even the scantest attention now knows he was right on that one too. Leiberman thinks its time to blow up their reactors NOW before they fully develop their bomb program. What says the left about that one?
As per the Saudis, yes human rights groups have their agendas…. it just depends on who gets to point what flashlight at what type of oppression.
Maryland Brian
#17 Mentioned Malaya, which became Malaysia when it gained independence from Britain. It adopted and, under their unique circumstances, has been governed by a coalition party quite well for a younger democracy. The following link describes how difficult it is to have viable representative government in developing nations, especially Islamic nations.
http://www.answers.com/topic/ united-malays-national-organisation
Islam is prone to hierarchy systems of government and dealing with them is difficult because we and they are coming from completely different directions that leads over and over to conflict. There are those Muslims, usually with education and money, who want very much to live in peace. On the other hand, there are millions for whom life is bleak. They depend on Islam for their future, even if that future is in heaven.
I lived in Egypt and in Malaysia. Both are mostly Sunnei Muslims and terribly afraid of the Shia, especially the firebrand version that was being exported to Malaysia when I was there decade ago.
What’s the answer? It is hard to listen to groups who still fight the same battles that the immediate descendants of Mohammed fought and also the terrible religious trauma of the Crusades. We live in worlds of different perspectives, and seldom understand that this battle goes all the way back to the immediate children of Abraham.
Sound silly? But it’s the truth.
If you follow the link above, be sure you add “united-malays-national-organisation” or it will take a while.
check your memory, Brian. Cheney described Iraq as “the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9/11.” It is clear that the war with radical Islam has much more active fronts (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the Gaza Strip, Pakistan, Afghanistan).
Recognizing evil requires some evaluative skills, which the Bush Regime seems to have opted out of, along the lines of Cheney’s selective view of the Constitution.
In terms of Iran, the Bush Regime has had 6 years to formulate a viable strategy here – they have ignored the pleas of US & global experts, choosing to go their own way.
In terms of Saudi Arabia, I’d suggest you visit our ally, then ponder if it is simply a case of human rights group trumping up charges.
DH #24 & 25
– Interesting I also lived in Eastern Malaysia (Sarawak) in my youth and travelled round it and many parts of the Far and Middle East. The assumption of power and predominence of Malays and Islam over the interests of the Chinese, Tamils and indigenous tribes and Christianity and other religions has been a pretty brutal business and an element of that and a hierarchical system seems to remain. This of course led to the separation off of Singapore which fared better for a long time than its neighbor. However as you say this does seem to have settled down into a compromise. It always struck me as curious that it has a revolving constitutional monarchy with each ruler or sultan of the states taking it in turn I believe to be king of Malaysia for a year. It is a stunningly beautiful country with great people. Later in England I got to know two Malay princes at school who were good rugby players and learnt a lot more.
It is a problem as so many Islamic countries have little or no history of democracy. The ruling families rarely help themselves by running everything as medieval rulers and even where they have been replaced the system seems to remain the same and it is unsurprising that trouble brews. Malaysia and Egypt are some of the rare exceptions.
Once again [#2]:
–1- The world has some 1 billion Muslims. Billion. As in 1,000,000,000.
–2- Islamists probably constitute a minority of this number.
–3- Gun-wielding jihadists constitute a tiny minority of that number.
–4- Gordon Brown rightly recognizes the importance of appealing to Muslims’ hearts and minds and urging them to oppose jihadist violence. We will never make real progress against such violence if we sit back and let jihadists and their enablers (e.g., Al-Jazeera and more than a few governments between West Africa and Pakistan) set the intellectual agenda in the Muslim world.
Yet this thread seems to have drawn a spate of swaggering, tone-deaf comments [#3, 5, 10 & 13] implicitly equating Muslims with gun-wielding terrorists and harping on how one shouldn’t expect to reason with a terrorist “who only wants you dead.â€
If you dispute any of the 4 points I outlined above, please explain why—and make clear why we shouldn’t bother appealing to Muslims’ hearts and minds.
What I would like to know is why we overthrew a largely secular Sunni Islamic dictator who allowed Christian and even Jewish worship in favor of a far more fundamentalist Shi’ite regime whose members (remember Ahmed Chalabi) are closely allied with Iran? Even by the cynical measure of realpolitik it doesn’t make sense. I’d add to some previous thoughts by other posters that the silence over the plight of the Iraqi Christians on this board is deafening.
Pageantmaster. I made many great Malay and Chinese friends when we were in Malaysia and still hear from them. I belive the “King’s” reign is four years, but that is remembering which at my age I’m not so good at.
Good will is always the best answer in sticky political situations. Abdul Rahman and Lee Kwan Yew’s desire for a peaceful solution showed what it’s like to keep a country at heart.
Even so, I am told there is still a strong muslim resentment against other faiths. I went to a Catholic Church (there being no Anglican Church near by) that was allowed one permanent priest for a flock of almost eight thousand! Yet the faith was always there.
There were many lessons about Christian behaviour in the face of hostility that the TEC should take to heart. ++KJS would do well to seek advice from the Anglican Primate of that whole area. She would quickly learn that Christ is the head of the Church and true believers will make it through, despite all efforts to stop them.
#28,
I will engage your challenge the moment you can point me toward a similar global effort by Christian or Jewish adherents to emulate the terrorist activities of Muslim fanatics.
Maryland Brian
#28. You missed my point (or maybe I didn’t make it well) which is simply that Faith is more important than politics. Love is more important than law suits. Our National Church authorities need to be more understanding of the feelings of us orthodox and not threaten to “bring us in line” with their culturally correct declarations…..and law suits.
#31,
For that comparison to hold, you would have to show that most Muslims are fanatics when, out of one billion globally, it is clear that most are not. And this is at a time after media images of Iraqi children killed by US bombing runs and the atrocities at Abu Ghraib have been broadcast all over the Muslim world. This is as unfair as tagging all Christians as fanatics based on the actions of Protestant and Catholic paramilitaries in Ireland.
In other words 33, there is no current parallel to Muslim terrorist fanatics to be found among Christian or Jewish believers. Christian or Jewish men, women or children are not to be found strapping bombs to their bodies and walking into crowded public spaces. Or blowing up nightclubs filled with Australians just for the fun of it. Or filming basement beheadings and posting them on the internet. Or setting off bombs in all sorts of places all over the world for that matter. I note, the actions you highlight were limited to country; Ireland.
Like I said, there is something about the West’s rejection of God that seems to also cloud the ability to name evil.
Maryland Brian
#28
Don’t agree with all your detail but still great stuff and a healthy blast of common sense.
I agree slaughtering civilians who’ve never harmed you is evil, but I cannot agree that being Muslim equates to being a terrorist fanatic since the evidence of the world’s one billion Muslims is to the contrary.
#36,
NOTE – I have not said anything about the majority of Muslims. What I have said is that the bulk of the world’s terrorists are Muslims. Christianity and Judaism don’t appear to produce the quantity of participants or the level of evil that’s coming out of the Muslim world. It is what it is. The question on the table is how best to confront that evil. My contention is that most of the so-called western world is having difficulty even defining it as evil because they have also tossed overboard the concept of God.
How else to explain the left’s ability to ignore the factual evidence that WMD’s were found in Iraq, that the previous government of that country did have connections to terrorists, that the previous government invaded another country, grossly abused the peoples there until such time as they were kicked out, and the inability to understand that Iran is now behind most of the violence we currently see in Iraq. NOTE – see previous statements concerning the connection between evil and terrorists and the inability to see or understand how these two are linked.
Maryland Brian
“I will engage your challenge the moment you can point me toward a similar global effort by Christian or Jewish adherents to emulate the terrorist activities of Muslim fanatics.”
Maryland Brian [#28]: Gordon Brown declares that the West should—in its own self-interest—struggle for the hearts and minds of Muslims (e.g., by seeking to persuade them that the West is not evil, does not hate them, and has much to offer them).
Why should such outreach to Muslims depend on whether I can show you “a similar global effort by Christian or Jewish adherents to emulate the terrorist activities of Muslim fanatics”?
Your reasoning remains unfathomable.
MD Brian,
Almost all of the terrorist are male and under 40 – are those attributes criteria for evil ?
And why is it that Saudi Aarabia gets off so easily in the Bush Regime’s evaluation of evil & good doers ?
“Your reasoning remains unfathomable.”
Exactly my point.
Japan and Germany have joined the company of democratic republics. Why? Because following a war they lost it was in their best interest to do so. I make the assumption that nation states should be inherently moral. That some are, through our limited ability to perceive these things, is obviously a good thing. Most nation states do what they do out of self interest. What is Iran’s current self interest? Why should Iran stop supporting terrorists around the world? Because we will talk to them? Will that end their massive financial support of terrorist organizations now thriving in Syria, Lebanon, and the Gaza strip? The EU and the US have been talking to Iran for years now and … they are on the verge of producing nuclear weapons.
“Struggle for the hearts and minds” makes a wonderful sound bite. Your nation (I’m assuming you’re from the UK?) and ours struggled violently the previous century, both times on European soil, and those struggles had little to do with hearts and minds. At the conclusion of that struggle another struggle began, only this one was mostly engaged through financial competition or proxy wars. Watching Putin at work, maybe that one really isn’t over yet either.
Terrorism will end when a nation’s self interest makes it so. Thus far the primary supporter of terrorism has seen no basis for ending it. And as previously highlighted, there are more than enough violent fanatics willing to accept Iran’s continuing support.
And Bob keeps making noises about Saudi Arabia. OK, there’s little doubt they too are also supporting schools that are indoctrinating their children in a conservative direction. OTOH, they aren’t dressing up terrorists as mickey mouse and putting them on TV either… And we have little doubt that Saudi Arabia has not allowed terrorism to flourish in their nation nor do they house training camps. And then there’s Libya’s response when US troops went into Iraq – they abandoned their nuclear program and have sought to rejoin the “family of nations.” Again, it was in their self interest to do so.
And we haven’t even touched on the “oil for food” dollars that ended up in France and Russia … btw, for those of you across the pond, how’s that corruption probe of France’s last president coming?
Maryland Brian
Irenaeus wrote:
–1- The world has some 1 billion Muslims. Billion. As in 1,000,000,000.
–2- Islamists probably constitute a minority of this number.
–3- Gun-wielding jihadists constitute a tiny minority of that number.
Ok, so let’s say the number of (2 & 3) is around 5% of all Muslims. So what’s 5% of 1 billion? Is that such a small number that we don’t need to be concerned? Just asking.
Jim Elliott
“Is that such a small number that we don’t need to be concerned?”
Jim [#41]: Of course not. That’s why we should appeal to the hearts and minds of the nonjihadist majority of Muslims—to be sure they understand why jihadism against the West is grievously misguided. Those who understand that are much less likely to become jihadists, assist jihadists, or give jihadists moral support. We should seek to deny jihadist any semblance of legitimacy.
Facts and logic don’t necessarily win out (as this thread may remind us) but in the long run they often make a difference.
Why would any red-blooded human being want to let Islamist extremists set the intellectual and political agenda for the Muslim world?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Maryland Brian [#40]: You in effect advocate a colossal self-defeating snit. Because some Muslims have hardened their hearts, you don’t want to both trying to appeal to all the other Muslims in the world. It’s too much trouble. Indeed, it irks you enough so that you pour could water on those (like Gordon Brown) with the gumption to try. Lah-de-dah.
Consider the case of Indonesia—the world’s largest Muslim majority nation, with some 230 million people. Indonesian Muslims have historically been tolerant of non-Muslims. Indonesia has a largely peaceful Islamist movement and a violent Al-Qaida affiliated jihadist fringe. Why should we give up on the peaceful majority? Why shouldn’t we seek to persuade them that their interest lies in economic and political cooperation with the West, not in support for jihadists like Abu Sayyaf?
I agree that many governments act out of self-interest and have made that point at some length today on Stand Firm.
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/3938/#71190
Yet history, past and present, is replete with examples of self-defeating behavior. Palestinian rejectionism towards Israel provides a prime recent example. History is also replete with examples of governments that went to war against the interests of their citizens. Why sit back and wait, perhaps for generations, until hostile governments have exhausted their trove of self-defeating strategies.
(As for your assuming I must be a foreigner, I’m a tenth-generation American with many years of experience in U.S. government and politics.)
In #42, the 2nd sentence of my reply to Maryland Brian should read:
“Because some Muslims have hardened their hearts, you don’t want to BOTHER trying to appeal to all the other Muslims in the world.”
“Consider the case of Indonesia—the world’s largest Muslim majority nation, with some 230 million people. Indonesian Muslims have historically been tolerant of non-Muslims. Indonesia has a largely peaceful Islamist movement and a violent Al-Qaida affiliated jihadist fringe. Why should we give up on the peaceful majority?”
And how much easier would it be if the financial support and training bases for Al-Qaida were stopped at their source? Who said anything about giving up on majorities? The issue is how to help governments understand it is in their best interest to end their support of outfits like AL-Qaida.
cLink: http://www.breitbart.com/print.php?id=070625232254.etwt6z5u&show_article=1
Iranian forces crossed Iraqi border: report
Jun 25 07:23 PM US/Eastern
Iranian Revolutionary Guard forces have been spotted by British troops crossing the border into southern Iraq, The Sun tabloid reported on Tuesday.
Britain’s defence ministry would not confirm or deny the report, with a spokesman declining to comment on “intelligence matters”.
An unidentified intelligence source told the tabloid: “It is an extremely alarming development and raises the stakes considerably. In effect, it means we are in a full on war with Iran — but nobody has officially declared it.
This is what I mean by evil. This is what must be stopped at its source.
cLink: http://www.breitbart.com/print.php?id=D8Q01SKG0&show_article=1
Boy: Taliban Recruited Me to Bomb Troops
Jun 25 03:56 PM US/Eastern
By JASON STRAZIUSO
Associated Press Writer
FORWARD OPERATING BASE THUNDER, Afghanistan The story of a 6-year-old Afghan boy who says he thwarted an effort by Taliban militants to trick him into being a suicide bomber provoked tears and anger at a meeting of tribal leaders.
The account from Juma Gul, a dirt-caked child who collects scrap metal for money, left American soldiers dumbfounded that a youngster could be sent on such a mission. Afghan troops crowded around the boy to call him a hero.
Though the Taliban dismissed the story as propaganda, at a time when U.S. and NATO forces are under increasing criticism over civilian casualties, both Afghan tribal elders and U.S. military officers said they were convinced by his dramatic account.
Juma said that sometime last month Taliban fighters forced him to wear a vest they said would spray out flowers when he touched a button. He said they told him that when he saw American soldiers, “throw your body at them.”
#45, I agree, evil “must be stopped at its source”. At http://www.touchofchrist.net there are moving testimonies and a description of how this evil is being stopped:
“The voice of the Holy Spirit within our hearts has given us a unique strategy to break the grip of Islam over people’s lives. We know that Muslims respect power and powerful people. The conversion of influential people encourages those who admire them to come to the Lord Jesus. Therefore, we boldly target Islam’s most respected leaders for salvation through declarations of Jesus’ name. With accompanying signs and wonders we preach and testify to Muslim community leaders such as teachers, civil authorities, imams and media personalties.”