A Texas appeals court said Thursday that the state had no right to take more than 400 children from a polygamist sect’s ranch, a ruling that could unravel one of the biggest child-custody cases in U.S. history.
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the state offered “legally and factually insufficient” grounds for the “extreme” measure of removing all children from the ranch, from babies to teenagers.
The state never provided evidence that the children were in any immediate danger, the only grounds in Texas law for taking children from their parents without court approval, the appeals court said.
I’m glad to see this ruling. It could become another Waco or Ruby Ridge situation.
The question is where is the balance between protecting children and protecting parents’ rights. Both are very important. As I see it, it is hard to get good evidence of abuse. If a family is abusing a child in the home, it is hard to get evidence and protect the child. In the case of a compound, like the polygamist sect’s ranch, it is even harder. However the parents’ right to raise their child without interference of the State is also important. How do you find out about, and protect, the child that is being abused without trampling on the rights of the parents?
In this case, it has been ruled that there was not enough evidence to conduct the raid. In all probability there never would be. However based on the reports of the number of minor mothers and mothers-to-be there was abuse. So in cases like this do we just let the children be abused?
I have no answers, but it seems there is a very fine line.
Right on, Brian. Texas evidently executed the operation properly as evidenced by no known blood shed. Now, if the state can just clean up their mess over at CPS so they don’t do this stupidity again, we Texans might have a chance.
Aggie, Class of ’70
An Anglican Firearms “Enthusiast”
Frankly, I think the state, by removing children (including non-breastfeeding infants under the age of 4) was abusing children.
We have rules regarding evidence not to protect “parental rights” but to keep kids from being abused in foster homes by an officious bureacracy.
I hope whoever engineered this travesty is fired, and barred from working in the field of Social Work or Law again.
This is good news. The Texas legal system had overstepped its bounds.
As Western culture becomes more and more post- and anti-Christian, legal protections for the (true) Christian minority will become more and more important.
Thank goodness, home schooling is still being allowed. There may come a day when Christian parents who home-school will come under suspicions not unlike that of this heretical sect.
[size=1][color=red][url=http://resurrectioncommunitypersonal.blogspot.com/]The Rabbit[/url][/color][color=gray].[/color][/size]
#5: Rabbit, California is one step ahead of you. By judicial decision, homeschooling is now illegal in California unless the parents have teaching credentials issued by the State.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL
Eww Ick.
Jim, your news just ruined my day.
[size=1][color=red][url=http://resurrectioncommunitypersonal.blogspot.com/]The Rabbit[/url][/color][color=gray].[/color][/size]
Very sorry, Rabbit.
You might also be interested in the following story about the Southern Baptists considering a national resolution to pull all their children out of California public schools:
http://christiannewswire.com/news/188586685.html
The end is nearer every day.
#2
[blockquote]In this case, it has been ruled that there was not enough evidence to conduct the raid. [/blockquote]
Not exactly. The raid was never questioned – actually State law required it. It was ruled today that there was not enough evidence to take the children from their homes.
This, of course, will be appealed to the next level (Texas Supreme Court) and I suspect that the State will make the argument that the YFZ functions as a ‘single family unit’ and/or that the lack of vaccinations, the inability of many of the children to identify their parents, the 31 pregnant teenage girls and the lack of teenage boys is proof of some kind of abuse. And it will go back and forth for months. This is far from over.
[blockquote] The end is nearer every day. [/blockquote] Marana Tha.
[size=1][color=red][url=http://resurrectioncommunitypersonal.blogspot.com/]The Rabbit[/url][/color][color=gray].[/color][/size]
When this raid took place, I posted here that I had become “uncomfortable” with the whole thing. I mentioned this group of LDS fanatics “were a singularly unattractive cult” whose life style and dress has raised the hackles of their Texas neighbors. I thought then this was the probable real reason for the raid, not child abuse. I was and am offended and very disturbed by the behavior of the female DA and her Dept. of Social Services hatchet women. They were in a “Gotcha you bastards” mode for sure. Their public comments and now apparently groundless accusations were highly highly prejudicial and inflammatory. These harpies are definitely of the nightmare variety to someone who loves the Constitution. There were some rather heated responses to my post, in the vein of child abuse must be ruthlessly stamped out etc etc. I now take small comfort in saying “I told you so.”
I am a 3rd generation Coloradoan whose family has long been in conflict with Mormonism, some of it violent, so I am probably predisposed to disliking them. However, the DA and her jack booted red necks who assaulted this peacefull if odd community in Texas went horribly beyond the pale. This strikes at the very basis of the Constitution of The United States. I remain no defender of Mormonism and its sects, but the spectacle of children torn from their mothers on the complaint of a woman who was never in Texas and who has a history of filing false child abuse actions is sickening. The State of Texas and its out of control enforcers needed this quick course in the Constitution. I hope it costs them a bundle.
Tedd Mak,
I’m with you 100% on this one. The state should be ordered to return the children to their parents at once and there should be a whole lot of state officials in the unemployment line over this sorry mess.
Don’t know where the “y” went teddy. sorry.
Jim,
I heard on the radio yesterday that Tennessee is not going to recognize the diplomas of homeschooled- and religious school- children when it comes to State jobs.
That means if you were homeschooled in Tennessee, and got a diploma, and then want a job as a ranger or whatever in a State Park (for example), they can look at you and say “Sorry, you never ‘officially’ graduated high school, and a HS diploma from a PUBLIC school is needed for this job. Good luck elsewhere.”
Jim Elliott
“the other Jim”
Oh, but a thought: Isn’t polygamy illegal? Wouldn’t that be enough to shut down the compound and toss the ‘husband’ into jail? Oh, they don’t have a state marriage license. I see. Just a ‘church’ one. Ok, how about welfare fraud? I hear that the Mom’s were getting WIC and food stamps based on unwed mother status, with no father present who was providing financial assistance.
#15
All of which has nothing to do with the state seizing a whole community’s children for alledged child abuse, based on a phone call that was a HOAX.
Ah, but they didn’t KNOW it was a hoax. Law enforcement officials MUST act on a charge of abuse, and refer to CPS any findings.
My wife had to deal with this with the elderly when she was a social worker with HRS. They would receive calls from 911 dispatch requesting a social worker accompany a police officer to a certain house as a report of abuse had been recorded. It was not optional, it was mandatory.
If any abuse was suspected as being founded (justified), the person was removed from the environment until further investigation rendered the case either unfounded or founded, if the latter then arrests and court proceedings were called for. I don’t have all of the details, as much of what she did was confidential.
Why don’t we all admit the situation is not subject to an easy solution that will resolve all our Christian concerns about family, society and that cult? Consider, for example, that the officials may not have acted only as officious bureaucrats, but that they may have had honest concern about the children. As a starting point, I suggest we all read yesterday’s Wall Street Journal article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121132858677808907.html
GeneB
I’m more than willing to admit that.
Jim Elliott
I simply cannot believe that number of people who are defending these polygamists and pedophiles. Presumably, you must believe the state is less trustworthy and more apt to harming the children than this cult. I say — Stop being concerned about black helicopters and start being concerned about innocent children!!
It is probably a little early for any “I told you so’s” from anybody. The decision has already gone to the Texas Supreme Court and this only represents 38 out of the 189 women. This isn’t even close to being over.