A number of bishops expressed frustration with the conference’s design, comparing it to “Bible school for bishops,” with endless talk but little action. “I don’t think we’ve done anything to resolve the crisis,” said conservative bishop Keith Ackerman of Quincy, Illinois, despite Williams’s suggestion that “the pieces are on the board” to resolve some problems.
In a presidential address, Williams said he would be bringing forward proposals within two months for a pastoral forum to deal with conflict situations in the Anglican Communion. The forum could also offer recommendations on what to do if any of the three moratoria were broken, said a paper presented to the conference.
Liberal Episcopalians such as Dean Wolfe, a bishop from Kansas, said the succession of meetings after Lambeth “is a dance that will go on for some time.” Wolfe added: “We don’t see this as a permanent marginalization.”
Sorry, but “temporary bans” on the ordination of gays and lesbians and same-sex “marriages” won’t hack it. If these so-called “bans” are not made permanent, nothing will save Anglican unity. There can be no via media here.
[blockquote]A number of bishops expressed frustration with the conference’s design, comparing it to “Bible school for bishops,” [/blockquote]
This is precisely what many Bishops (and others) need.
The liberals in TEC are feeling marginalized? Gosh, how does it feel, I wonder. One can only feel marginalized if one is not at the center of Reality.
I have to agree with the liberaql bishop of Kansas, this marginalization is not permanent. Only I say that the Orthodox will NOT be permanently marginalized or held hostage by the GLBT agenda and queenie Schori. GAFCON should show them the door by showing them theh backs of the orthodox as we go into all the world to serve God.
I have a simple proposal which would make this very doable from the point of view of the Global South primates. The GS folks promise to enter a cease fire. As long as TEC keeps its part of the bargain (including no further SS blessings of any kind in any parish inside TEC) then the GS bishops will do no further border crossings of any kind with any parish inside TEC.
Of course, such a moratorium will last about a few weeks at the most. Surely some TEC parish will hold a gay marriage ceremony in August and another in Sept and one more in Oct and so on.
But such a proposal would at least clearly demonstrate the GS primates willingness to abide by what was requested.
So, to repeat:
The cease-fire begins any time KJS says, but not until she says.
The cease-fire is in effect until either side breaks it.
Once one side breaks it, it is no longer in effect.
With this agreement, the GS primates could agree to it with total confidence that border crossing three months from now won’t be a violation of the cease fire—since TEC will have already broken by then.
PS. I have posted this proposal at T19 before. My apologies to anyone who was just made to read it again! 🙂 But I feel like one real weakness of Windsor and Lambeth 2008 is finding a practical way for the GS to abide by requests without being the only group so doing. This would enable them to show good faith and to protect themselves from later charges that they were unwilling to give up anything.
I find it utterly maddening that ++Rowan can now issue dire predictions of communal implosion after running interference for TEC these past five years. Every signal he’s sent TEC has been one of either insouciance or tacit support, only to then declare that the consequences of what he has been enabling may mean the death of the Communion.
When ++Rowan’s actions align with his words, I’ll say he’s finally seen the light. Until then, he’s a muddle-headed incompetent.
#6, I agree with Jeffersonian! In fact, while I am a clear traditionalist here, I have a lot of sympathy with the reappraisers, for exactly the reasons you give. It’s unfair for Rowan to tell them NOW that they have got to immediately halt every single SSB ceremony being planned for the fall when he has sent them clear signals so far that he’ll do nothing to discipline them in any way.
I’ve commented in several threads already that the AC is dead. I’m not the least surprised. It was prophesied. All the organization of men will fail. That’s why Jesus will returning. If MEN were able to solve their own problems, then there would be no reason for Jesus to return. But God has promised us he will intervene before MEN have a chance totally irradicate mankind by their constantly worsening immoral and evil practices.
Mt 24:22 – “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
The ABC who has repeatedly refused to defend the Faith, ignored various resolutions, stacked the deck on various commissions, boards, panels, etc., etc. and allowed TEC to be run into a ditch, NOW predicting disaster?!?! Simply another indication that we’re no longer in a Christian Church, but the Theatre of the Absurd!
Jon, the moratorium is, even if upheld, insufficient. TEC must UNDO the damage it has done. Only then will we know that homosexualization of Anglicanism has been cut off at the root. After all, a moratorium is merely a pause, not a cessation, recantation and reconstruction. Since TEC will do nothing of the sort, why do we continue to suggest that TEC might yet save itself if only it would do “the following” FROM NOW ON. No, I say, it must go back into the barn and shovel out all the stalls, not merely put more sawdust on the fouled bedding until such time as someone else mucks out the stalls and makes them pay the bill. Larry
I understand where you are coming from, Larry. But there’s at least two reasons to make a good faith effort towards the moratorium, if a way could be proposed that would not make it one sided (I propose one such way above in this thread). The reasons are:
(1) It’s what the Primates agreed to, including folks like Akinola and so forth. They supported Windsor, which asked, for example, for no more gay bishops but accepted VGR’s ordination. They asked for no more SSU’s but did not ask that GC pass a resolution revoking previous SSUs already performed. And so forth. So the moratorium is simply Windsor, and it would be wrong for Primates who signed it to go back on it now (just as KJS did, for example).
(2) The moratorium will NEVER be implented by TEC. There is simply no way all TEC bishops will support it. There will be several such bishops who would defy even a GC resolution (and that won’t happen either). So it’s actually a good thing for the GS primates to keep their word, simply on grounds of integrity, and allow TEC to be the first to shatter the moratorium. It permits the GS primates to continue to be ethical in ALL respects: keeping their original commitments/promises at Dromantine and other meetings, and also be true to their own understanding of the Gospel.
That’s why I view it as a complete risk free move if they would simply say to KJS: “Tell us when the moratorium begins, and we’ll comply. After that, if you break it, the moratorium is off.” My guess is that TEC would last maybe two weeks. Three?
#5 and #11 Jon,
You’ve fallen for the popular media representation of the situation as being about homosexuality. However, that is merely a symptom of the disease (which is lack of respect for scriptural authority.) Granted, skirmishes over ordinations of non-celibate gays, and blessings of same-sex unions get all the headlines, but the disease will run to its fatal conclusion regardless of the gay issues.
TEC’s consecration of Gene Robinson was merely a statement by the revisionists to the conservatives: “In your face, we have the votes and we can do anything we wish!”.
RalphM, you nailed it the true issue, thanks!
too late…..TEC will proceed full speed ahead….as Robinson points out
The ABC has made a serious strategic mistake…
nor is it his first
Much too late
#12. On the mark precisely, and I have been saying this for some time, that the disease is systemic and the homosexualization of our church is simply a symptom. Now, what exactly is the disease? What are its symptoms? And is there a cure? for we have an entire culture which is sick, don’t we? Larry
#12… hi RalphM. Sorry for the long delay but I have been slammed with work lately.
I’m puzzled by your claim that I have “fallen” for something, though it’s nice to have someone so concerned about my naivtee.
I certainly agree with you that the real issues behind the crisis of the last 5 years run much deeper than the presenting issue of Gene Robinson and so forth. That’s an observation that lots of people have made — Ken Harmon, Bob Duncan, Paul Zahl, Fitz Alison, and loads of bloggers. I mean, people have been saying that for a long time and I agree with it.
All I was doing, however, was refering to something very simple and very concrete, namely: the Global South bishops have been asked to do something at Lambeth 2008 (no further border crossings), and it would be nice if we could find a way to have them honor the request in a way that doesn’t put their mission or convictions in any practical risk. Nice because then they’d be keeping their word (when they affirmed Windsor and agreed to it) but wouldn’t be forced to do so while watching TEC throw Windsor down and dance on it.
As I said, a simple method would be to say “Sure… let’s wait TEC is ready to begin the moratorium. Then we’ll be glad to keep our side for as long as TEC does.” It’s a simple practical honorable move. Honorable because it honors requests and keeps promises. Practical because we all know that TEC will break it in a week, and therefore it won’t in practice be binding on the GS for more than a week.
Anyway, that’s all I was addressing: one very simple practical issue. Hope that clears up any misunderstanding you may have had.
All the best,
J