A few weeks ago, a group called Roman Catholic Womenpriests staged what it called an ordination, vesting three Boston-area women in white chasubles and red stoles. It told the local papers that the ordinations were valid, despite the Catholic Church’s teaching to the contrary; it even asserted episcopal approval from a rogue bishop whose name it won’t reveal. But, as a statement from the Archdiocese of Boston put it: “Catholics who attempt to confer a sacred order on a woman, and the women who attempt to receive a sacred order, are by their own actions separating themselves from the Church.” In other words: The ordinations were not Catholic.
Don’t tell that to Judy Lee, one of the “priests.” She insists that the archdiocese’s pronouncement will be a dead letter: “We are Roman Catholics. . . . The all-male hierarchy and their legal traditions came along with the spiritual package that we embrace. We do not have to embrace both if they are contradictory.” Bridget Meehan, spokeswoman for Roman Catholic Womenpriests, which claims 61 priests in North America, including one bishop, insists: “Nothing or no one can stop the action of God’s Spirit moving in the Church. . . . We are not discouraged by excommunication. In fact, in many ways, it is a catalyst for growth.” Ms. Meehan, who was ordained in 2006, believes that a “more transparent, community model” can bring nonpracticing Catholics back into the fold.
Sound familiar, Episcopalians? We have these types too, sadly.
“We are not discouraged by excommunication. In fact, in many ways, it is a catalyst for growth”
The only growth it should be a catalyst for is reflection, confession and penance. Else say hello to eternal death.
Shhesh, this is the 21st century, “ladies”. If you want to be ordained, there are plenty of denominations that recognize Women’s Ordinations. Go join one of these. Or form your own.
Jim Elliott <><
What an amazing coincidence! I crowned Cutter, our pet golden, King of Siam today. Perfectly valid.
I have never quite understood the argument that by wanting to change something from within we go off and do our own thing in direct defiance of the rules. Granted, it is effective in wishy-washy churches, but I still don’t follow the logic in the argument, unless its the old “D*** the torpedoes, full speed ahead” mentality.
For those of us who honestly try to be objective and weigh the theological argument for women ordination on its own merit, I don’t find actions of this nature helping the argument.
Null and utterly void. Excommunication? Valid until repentance. No exceptions.
These women are all aboutmaking polotical statements. Nothing but another box checked on their list of activist causes. One of these women was fired from her teaching job here after getting arrested for trespassing during on of her several acts of civil disobedience against the former School fo the Americas at Ft. Benning. She’s also a leading local anti-war noise maker. Just another leftist yearning for the good ol’ days of the 60’s.
[blockquote] “We are Roman Catholics. . . . The all-male hierarchy and their legal traditions came along with the spiritual package that we embrace. We do not have to embrace both if they are contradictory.”[/blockquote]
Of course they are priests. These womyn must be respected. Surely they know who and what they are. It is insulting and offensive for people to refuse recognition to their obvious standing.
Napoleon
Emperor of France
(Kindly route correspondence to us through our Imperial Secretary)
Like the Episcopal prelate who declares that he/she is in Communion with all Anglicans whether they recognize it or not, these women stake a unilateral claim in a bi-lateral situation. Communion is [i]between or among[/i] people. Ordination is an event [i]within[/i] a community. Narcissism, however, recognizes the Self primarily, and others only to the degree that they serve the Self.
They are now proceeding down the same road to oblivion as the TEc. The Roman church knows how to handle the problem, prompt excommunication. This is what should have happened when the irregular ordination of women took place in the PECUSA, look where we are now!
#4 wrote:
[i]For those of us who honestly try to be objective and weigh the theological argument for women ordination on its own merit, I don’t find actions of this nature helping the argument.[/i]
Thank you. My thoughts exactly.
How long will it be before these impetuous egomaniacs give up and cross the Thames to us? Look for them to be prominent leaders in General Convention 2018.
Of course, this is the same path chosen in 1974 with the illegal ordinations in Philadelphia. However, I don’t see Rome falling for the ‘human rights’ view of ministry.
As for the second half of the article about the growth of traditionalist in the Roman Church – I find this absolutely true. My neighbor 6 doors down has TWO daughters in a VERY TRADITIONAL Dominican Order (one professed, one a novice) and they are women FULL OF JOY! The Roman “Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter” founded to re-incorporate those traditionalist/tridentine Mass clergy who left after Vatican II has built the first Seminary in the USA in at least 30 years, opening in 2000 and it is at its capacity of 60 seminarians! .
#11 — No, they won’t. These types feel its their duty to be “prophetic” in the RCC and their movement has been ongoing since Vatican II. Sister Joan Chittister, their most prominent voice, has never led them to TEC/the Anglican Communion, has she?
#12 – I attend an FSSP chapel in Chesapeake, and it is amazing. Young priests, and we are bursting at the seams (building a new chapel now, in fact). The Reform of the Reform is underway.
#13 – True – they feel it their mission to end the RCC and re-make it in their image. This isn’t about them finding a place where they feel welcome – it’s about them denying any other expression of faith than what they approve of. They are a vile lot.
But, mercifully, most are elderly, so will be unable to exercise their “priestly” ministry for too many years more. And then, one hopes, they will be repent before being gathered up for their spell in purgatory.
improper matter, form, and intent…………lacking all, they are deluded in their status and actions. But, if they can cook, they could manage an agape dinner on occasion!
What libraryjim wrote in 2 and what Jeffersonian wrote in 3.
[blockquote]We are Roman Catholics. . .[/blockquote]
I don’t call things [i]Roman Catholic[/i] that aren’t under Rome.
What they’ve done is joined the wild, woolly, largely imaginary world of [i]vagante[/i] churches. Because they’ve really left Rome and joined another church they’ve excommunicated themselves. Excommunication is not a ticket to hell; no-one on earth can declare that. It’s meant for the person to repent and come back.
Yes, it’s a bunch of older people nostalgic for their youthful rebellion 40 years ago. As with mainline Protestantism the kids aren’t interested. Either they’ve passed it by into honest unbelief or they’re conservative.
[url=http://aconservativesiteforpeace.info]Blog.[/url]
It is instructive that they claim that the Holy Spirit is on their side, moving them forward, the very same claim that TEC has made re the homosexualization of the church. It would be nice if the Holy Spirit would speak up and tell us what She is up to. She is SO tomorrow!
We know that they will be nailed as they try to steal second. What do they hope to gain? And the answer is “notoriety.” This is simply another example of a culture that has become a slave to narcissism and exhibitionism. If it has worked for homosexuals, why should it not work for them? And they are hoping, of course, that the American liberal establishment will pick up their cause as it picked up the homophile banner.
Because America has chosen not to weed its own garden, there are weeds growing no one has seen before, and, as is common with weeds, they are out competing the vegetables. Larry
[blockquote] Now in their 18th year as an order, the Sister Servants of the Eternal Word are as far away as one can imagine from that scene in Boston.
“As an active woman religious working in the field of retreats and catechesis in the Bible Belt South, I have to say that I am far too busy . . . to feel slighted by the fact that the priesthood is not open to women,” insists Sister Louise Marie, a member of the order. She suggests that if Catholics and non-Catholics understood what a “powerful role women religious have,” they would never “feel sorry for [us].” [/blockquote]
Not hard to tell which group of women is engaged in genuine, life-giving ministry.
Young Fogey,
There are actually a bunch of us RCs out there who are neither the liberals of the 60s or the new conservatives. We’re the ones in the middle who grew up in the post Vat. II craziness and probably retain some of that spirit, but also who look at the folks 10-20+ years older than us and think that many of them are raving. But we’re still here and still loyal to the “broad” mainstream – to put it in Episcopalian terms. BTW, we are also looking at the young conservative folks wanting to return to a “good old days” that never existed, and are confounded by them as well. I also think many of us are kind-of hoping that a middle ground can be maintained, found somewhere between happy clappy 60s folk masses and the Latin mass.
Though I’m not against women’s ordination per se, to be RC it must be a decision made by the entire Church Catholic. Given JPII’s statement concerning women’s ordination that does not seem to be possible, at least within my lifetime. I won’t go so far as to say that it is impossible, because the Church has been known to change its position. It just takes a few decades/centuries.
But here, the actions of these women, who at this point are neither C/catholic or priests, put the “cause” of women’s ordination back another 100 years. I’m afraid KJS has personally contributed another 100 years or so to ensuring that the RCC will not even consider the idea of ordaining women. She has not exactly been the poster-woman for making the case for the ordination of women. It seems to be the beginning of a very slippery slope, which has not led TEC in a very healthy direction. I’m afraid the leadership across the Tiber is looking at what has been happening in TEC, as well as the actions of these women and the women like them, and saying that Hades will freeze over first before they would recognize these ordinations.
But what really gets to me is the idea that these women are deluded enough to believe that they remain Catholic. They need to either be Catholic and drop these claims, or find a home elsewhere.
As an aside, I’ve always wondered – how can you claim to be RC, much less a priest, knowing that when any other RC accepts any of your “sacramental” acts it means that they have just committed an overt act of heresy? How is this “catholic” in any of its meanings, much less an act of salvivic ministry? I just don’t get it. But then again, neither did they.
#4 and #10, in 2,000 years of history the Christian church has consistently, unanimously, and unexceptionally found that there is no theology which supports women’s ordination. Please remember that at no time has the w/o crowd presented a reasonable theology for their actions. The AmiA discovered this fact when they finally went in search of a theology for women’s ordination, though they apparently lost their nerve in Canada. CANA has found the same lack but refuse to admit it, instead creating a double mind they call the “two integrities” – a paradox St. James spoke about.
The mature Christian mind can embrace the fact that some ideas are in fact without reason and actions which flow from such unreasonable ideas are ridiculous. St. Paul exemplifies ridicule of the ridiculous when he wishes the circumcision party would take too much. Such is women’s ordination in the Christian church. The homework is done and has been for many centuries. Ridicule is appropriate for the ridiculous. St. Paul seemed to believe that fewer people will fall for that which is shown to be ridiculous. I agree.
Of course, suggesting that there is possible merit to w/o arguments does sound “nicer.” Unfortunately, niceties also get you +VGR and ++KJS tossing you to and fro (as per St. James’ not very nice but certainly very kind warning.)
A 2007 study found that 66% of those considering religious vocations were drawn to them most by a “desire to live a life of faithfulness to the Church and its teaching.” The young women in this majority don’t feel the need to remake Catholicism in their own image. Christ’s is more than good enough for them.
Why can’t the women of TEC and Cof E etc. understand this? That is all they have tried to do, remake Christs Church in their image rather than His. Women’s ordination was a mistake when started, is a mistake now and somehow must be dealt with.
These women would be more convincing if it weren’t for their tie dye vestments and heterodox (and often downright heretical) views on other matters of Church Doctrine.
Boone’s Farm Blush and Ciabatta bread were never valid matter for the Eucharist either.
Nevertheless, many RC laypeople and a significant number of priests believe in WO. And they are not just those who look back to the 60’s.
“Nevertheless, many RC laypeople and a significant number of priests believe in WO. And they are not just those who look back to the 60’s.”
Leave the dead to bury the dead — or else let them be urged to become Episcopalians.
The RC is not a democratic organization. It doesn’t really matter what ‘many laypeople and a significant number of priests)’ want, it’s what the magesterium and the Pope decrees that counts.
(BTW, what is ‘many’ and a ‘significant number’? And is that of ALL the RC priests or just those in America?)
Peace
Jim E. <><
To 24: in the [url=http://sergesblog.blogspot.com/2003/05/from-conservative-blog-for-peace.html]catholic[/url] world including not only Rome but the communions of the East, outside the Protestant-influenced First World the issue just doesn’t come up! For example there’s no movement in the Russian [url=http://home.att.net/~sergei592/IntroToOrthodoxy.html]Orthodox[/url] Church, a very big church with lots of urban Europeans, to ordain women.
[url=http://sergesblog.blogspot.com]Blog.[/url]
Thanks all for responding. No. 27 – I’m well aware. No. 26 – I know, but is it not also true that the Pope and/or the Magisterium are said to speak the mind of the church? No. 25 – Do they see any reason to become Episcopalians?
hi ………..
john………….
what is all about…
RhodeIslandDrugAddiction