Israel moved its troops into Gaza starting a ground offensive eight days after launching an airstrike campaign in efforts to end rocket attacks from Hamas militants.
“We have just a short while ago launched the second stage,” a spokeswoman for Israel Defense Forces Maj. Avital Leibovich, said in an interview broadcast on CNN.
She said that troops are targeting areas responsible for the launching of rockets into Israel, as well as tunnels, bunkers, and training facilities ”” “everything that is affiliated with Hamas is a legitimate target,” Major Leibovich said.
“We have many, many targets, and therefore to my estimate it’s going to be a lengthy operation,” she added, with specifying how long the ground war could last.
This is the right way to proceed. Although it will cause Katie et al. to go ballistic, the troops on the ground will be able to identify the terrorists and to deprive them of their weaponry. The down side is that it means that troops who would otherwise be safe will now be called on to lay down their lives. I pray justice will be done and that the cowards who send up missile attacks from residential neighborhoods will be struck down.
And there will be civilians who will get killed. Hamas men will be at home with their families, and the families will get killed with them. Those Arabs who wanted non-violence will be further marginalized. Those Palestinians who were ambivalent about Hamas will now be forced to support Hamas, or be killed by them.
Hamas, unfortunately, is looking forward to a ground battle. Some will be made into heroes.
In many, many situations throughout human history, there have been possibilities for successful negotiation and compromise between belligerents.
I honestly think there is no such possibility here. There never has been. In some (thankfully, few) situations, the only way to peace is – – some has to win, completely, and someone has to lose, again, completely. This is very likely one of those cases.
Israel occupies the moral high ground, here. Eight years of rocket attackes from the Gaza Strip, into Israeli civilian “targets,” is enough. Israel will be done with it, once and for all. And she should be.
“…and the war came.”
-A. Lincoln, March 4, 1865
Someone has to win we are told above, but really??? The Israelis have occupied Gaza before, for 50 years in fact, and in the end gave up because the intifada made it impossible to remain. Just as the Israelis are determined not to be forced out of their own country and will rather die in its ruins, so, too, the people of Gaza. I heard a man on the BBC say exactly that on the TV news last night: he had been warned to leave his home but he said he would rather die in the ruins than run. This is victory for Israel? No, I agree with John Wilkins above, it will further entrench bitterness, and erode Israel’s moral legitimacy. The whole thing is so desperately sad.
No, they gave it up because they were PROMISED that if they did, it would bring a new measure of peace to the area. Israel took the moral high ground, and gave it up. In return they got ‘homicide bombers’ (including, apparently, the son of one of the leaders of Hamas); daily rocket attacks, originally with short range homemade missiles, and now with longer range Chinese made ones coming from Iran; and so many attacks coming across the boundary that they had to erect a wall so that a Terrorist couldn’t just bicycle across and blow up a café at will.
Israel has been sending in humanitarian aid to Gaza, when Egypt won’t, and only stop when the rocket attacks make it impossible. Cease fires in the past have only served to give Hamas time to rearm and reload!
The objective of a new cease fire should be to prohibit Hamas from doing that, or building new bunkers for arms under hospitals and medical centers or setting up bombardment centers in civilian areas. They are cowards who attack from behind the skirts of women and children, and are not interested in true, lasting peaceful solutions.
Terry, with respect, you missed what I wrote. I said. . .”someone has to win, completely, and someone has to . . . lose, completely.” That has never happened before; always there has been some kind of cease-fire, some kind of (usually) imposed-from-outside kind of ‘armistice,’ which does not result in a once-for-all winner. If Israel is really thinking what I hope they are, this time, they will win, and the cries for “cease-fire’ from others in the world (who are quite willing for Israel to carry their water, as long as they do not have to stand up and be counted) will be ignored until the job is finished. There must be a winner, and there must be loser. That will work, if they decide to try it.
Israel bombed a Mosque. Chances are, they were right: the Mosque was led by a Militant Hamas Imam. There might have been weapons. There probably were.
But in the carnage were five girls. In the Arab world they will not care about the weapons. They will call these girls martyrs, and those who dropped the bombs murderers. Hamas, however, will mourn the girls – perhaps a cynical ploy – but they have the organization to get the family money and support. Israel will call them collateral damage and blame Hamas. And in practice, the anger deepens.
But, JKC, also with respect, what constitutes victory here? An annihilated population? Or 1.5m people forced at gunpoint over the Egyptian border? The people of Gaza only turned to Hamas in the first place because Fatah was so corrupt. There is no sign that the barrage is making them change their minds: rather, the reverse. Moreover, while every death is to be mourned, do 4 dead Israelis really equal 400 dead Palestinians? I would beg you to remember that proportionality is one of the conditions of a just war.
library jim, it has become clear that Israel also only wanted the cease fire to plan for an eventual invasion.
Nobody supports Hamas’ bombing of Israel. Lots of Arabs would like to see Hamas destroyed. But you might want to compare the number of rockets before Nov 4th and after, when Obama was elected. Israel is trying to get the best hand before his inauguration. The rumor is that Obama is going to offer some “tough love” (as the progressive Israeli press calls it). Israel had agreed to lift its economic embargo, but never did. The number of trucks it allowed, was not enough to feed 1.5 million people. But there were 5 months of relative calm until November.
The people in Gaza did not benefit from the ceasefire. Thus, there was no incentive for Hamas to keep it because they knew that the Gazan’s wouldn’t prevent them from showering rockets.
Terry, this is not a war. This is a reaction of a sovereign nation, recognized and respected by other nations throughout the planet, against a terrorist organization, whose stated intent is to totally annihilate and eradicate the nation in question. Nowhere else, in the world, would we ever expect a sovereign nation to put up with this for a day, much less eight + years.
Israel is well within her rights, and must win over Hamas, completely. For my own part, since you asked, I would suggest the removal of all elements of Hamas resistance to the Egyptian border, and offering them to the Egyptians, who can then offer them to the Syrians and the Jordanians (from which most of them have originated) would be a good solution. If Israel wins completely, takes Gaza, then the rockets stop. It really is that simple. Why do we need to complicate it? This is a highly moral reaction, by Israel, to a vicious and evil attack (multiplied by thousands) on the Israeli civilian population, over a period of years. Israel owes no one an explanation, much less an apology.
If you believe that this is not a war, then presumably you believe that Israel has not erected a 30-foot high concrete wall around Bethlehem, only a fence, which is official Israeli government terminology. JKC, you know, when any population is victimised, the first thing is to make it faceless. To rob it of humanity. Hence these bombs are not falling on men, women and children. No – they are falling on a terrorist organisation. Puhlease. I have visited Israel four times. I greatly respect its people and their achievements. And I believe that the moral tradition which they and we share calls them to find another way.
Of course, the last time that Israel went for an all-out land offensive (in Lebanon) the results were far from encouraging. In some ways, it’s a great pity that Israel absorbed the West Bank and Gaza after the Six-Day War. Egypt and Jordan both had a marked incentive to keep terrorists within their borders under restraint and faced little criticism from the Arab world for doing so.
[blockquote]But in the carnage were five girls. In the Arab world they will not care about the weapons. They will call these girls martyrs, and those who dropped the bombs murderers. [/blockquote]
And in the quaint old world of the Geneva Conventions (remember them? They were a useful brickbat when some imagined the evil Chimpy Katrinaburton had violated them), those that put weapons in close proximity are called “war criminals.” Ditto for “Hamas men [who] will be at home with their families, and the families will get killed with them.”
The moral bankruptcy of today’s Left never fails to astound.
JKC, your terminology of “complete victory” makes me uneasy, because it has an uncomfortable ring of “final solution.” I’m certain that’s not what you mean, but it might help if you said what you did mean by “complete victory.”
I don’t know what the solution is to Israel’s problems. I truly don’t know what they can do other than what they have done. But it’s also clear that what they have done, and what they are doing, only increases Palestinian resentment and hostility and thereby creates a fertile breeding ground for more terrorists like Hamas. If I thought I knew what the answer to that dilemma was I’d be writing everyone I could think of, but I don’t.
Terry, they have tried to find another way – – – time and time and time again. Each time, terrorists (or whatever you would feel comfortable calling them; people whose sole stated purpose is to destroy the nation of Israel completely – – to win completely) wreck the attempts, in one way or another. Terry, the terrorists fully understand what I originally said; there must be a complete winner and a complete loser, here. They get that. It is the rest of the world that cannot figure that out. And our humane desire to avoid causing death in the civilian population keeps our UN Security Council meeting behind closed doors (as they are preparing to do, even now) to figure yet another way to convince the Israelis that their proper place is to continue to take the hits to their civilians and their property, in order to somehow eventually placate the terrorists. That is not going to happen – – not now, not ever. Defeat is all they will understand. If Israel utterly defeats them, that they will get. And that is the only way to achieve anything that passes for peace, in that area of the world. The Lord knows we have tried every other way.
I have not been to that area. I sit in the comfort of the heartland of the USA, and I know how easy it is for me to make these observations and pronouncements. But I am not blind. I can see the longsuffering of the Israeli people. I can see the “imposed solutions” of history in that area. They do not work. Defeat for the terrorists will work, or nothing will. But we ought to at least try that option, one time.
Ross, that is a fair question, and I am not suggesting anything more or less than a war against terrorism, fought to its completion. I do not suggest war as an option easily; I lost family in several wars throughout the world (though I have never been involved in one). However, once in a great while (rarely, I think) fighting a war to its completion, to its conclusion, to the surrender or destruction of a belligerent, is the only way that one side can figure out how the thing ends! And in this case, in this region of the world, I contend this is the case.
Israel has put up with rocket attacks on their civilian population centers and people for over eight years, from Hamas, a de facto government in Gaza, which government the people of Gaza have never protested (or at least I am not aware of any protest). Hamas took power in Gaza, and Abbas had to flee to the West Bank, right? There is absolutely no reason why Hamas should not be completely and utterly destroyed – – to a man, if necessary. And that is the only way this can be settled, to the moral satisfaction of the planet, if not the satisfaction of the Security Council.
There will be casualties, many casualties. But there will also be an end to it.
Israel may well have little alternative to its present course of action. But this will not be the end of the fight. It will simply be another faze of an endless cycle of carnage and revenge. Some on this thread have spoken of victory. But what is victory? When is one side defeated? By any rational measure the Palestinians have been defeated for 60 years. They have lost their homes, their land and their national identity. They have been reduced to a stateless people living in utter poverty, scorned by much of the world and dependent upon charity because almost all of their best land has been annexed or simply stolen by so called “settlers” with a nod and wink from the Israeli Government. Yet they continue to fight for what they believe (with some justification) to be rightfully theirs.
I am a strong supporter of Israel’s right to exist within the pre-1967 borders. But Israel has often been their own worst enemy. There will be no peace in the Middle East that does not include a sovereign Palestine. And Israel’s unilateral annexation of Jerusalem and other territories can not be morally defended. Israel’s hands are not clean here. Not by a long shot.
John,
Don’t you want Israel to go after those who are in armed conflict? Don’t you want Israel to attack the Hamas terrorists? The only way to minimize civilian casualties is to us ground troops.
But you have the small problem of Hamas hiding in civilian areas and using Mosques to store munitions and to hide terrorists. There is a reason that Chaplians and medics are not allowed to pick up a weapon – even in extremis. It is because of the international accords that recongize them as non-combatants.
Hiding behind civilians and houses of worship is a very cowardly way to fight and it endangers the civilians too. If there are sooo many peace loving Palestinians, then why did they elect Hamas?
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Phil,
I am not arguing that Israel should not go after terrorists. Nor am I defending terrorist acts targeting civilians. I am arguing that Israel created an awful lot of those terrorists. And they are in the process of creating a lot more as we sit here and type back and forth. Way too many of the posts here and in other threads seem to be written with a view that Israel is the martyred saint. They aren’t. And until we wake up and realize this and take a more balanced approach to what’s going on over there I see no end in sight to the carnage. I find that Americans are by and large woefully ignorant of Middle Eastern history.
Under the mercy,
John
ooops I think the post I just responded to was directed at the other John. Apologies.
Under the mercy,
John
Some points, from a person who has lived in the Middle East with Muslims for 12 years:
1. Westerners are naive. A Muslim does not have to win, to “win” as defined by a Westerner. Any destruction or death to Israel (or America, or whoever is their enemy of the day today . . .), even if accompanied by their own death, is a win to them. They are like the Kamikaze. And we know what Give-em-Hell-Harry did to them.
2. For those who do not know, there s no “P†in the Arabic alphabet. Do you know how Palestinian is pronounced in Arabic? Well, it’s Philistine. Does this ring a bell?
3. These people have been fighting for thousands of years and disturbing world peace. They are like a bunch of brat kids ruining the peace of the household. Why don’t we make them ALL stop? Anyone who knows parenting should know that the only way to stop kids fighting each other is to punish both (or all), until they learn to get along.
4. Having said all this, the Israelis are absolutely doing the right thing. I am amazed they had the courage to wait this long. May God bless them. To quote a line from Jon Meacham’s biography of Andrew Jackson: [Jackson admired] William Wallace as portrayed in Jane Porter’s “The Scottish Chiefs†. . . “God is with me, Wallace says . . . God armeth the patriot’s hand!â€
5. May prophesy be fulfilled. Come, Lord Jesus, Come.
Israel ‘created’ terrorists? Sorry, but that is nonsense. It is like saying that passing tax laws creates tax protesters, or something like that. There may be such people, but Israel didn’t create them. Israel is a sovereign state, created by no less an ‘authority’ than the united Nations, and Hamas is a terrorist organization, whose stated purpose for existence (by their own acknowledgement) is to destroy the sovereign state of Israel. No other nation on this planet would ever be expected, by the U.N. or anyone else, to absorb the attacks that Israel has been expected to take, and continue to allow that organization to exist next to it. No one!! And Israel has put up with them for almost a decade. It is time for it to stop, and Israel must do what is required to protect its citizenry, constituted as it is by international law and history. It has an absolute right to do that, if it destroys every single person in Gaza in order to do it. That is a very harsh statement, I know, yet it is true.
And historically, Israel has been very forthcoming to the international community, as it has put up with this nonsense. But it is nonsense, and it is time for it to end, with a winner and a loser. I hope Israel is ready to continue until the end of it arrives, whenever that is. And I hope the civilized world supports them (and I doubt it will).
To say that I am appalled at some of the comments on this thread would be the understatement of the decade. Israel is and has been in direct contravention of International Law for years. It’s occupation of land stolen from other people is a crime. And now we have people standing up and justifying genocide if that’s what it takes to silence the victims of thieves. I think I will stop here before I type something that would be inconsistent with standards of a Christian blog.
Under the mercy
John
Given the fact that Israel was originally quite prepared to live within borders that were less than the 1967 borders and given the express aims of Hamas in both words and symbols, any brain-dead invocation of “international law” in this situation as well as any attempt to link Israel and “genocide” is worse than a blood libel.
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