America’s largest Lutheran denomination has reached its crossroads on homosexuality and allowing openly gay clergy, with crucial votes slated at its biennial assembly this week in Minneapolis that participants say are too close to call.
“We recognize we’re in for some long conversation this week,” said Virginia Synod Bishop James F. Mauney, who oversees 42,000 members in 163 churches across the state. “I am hopeful that our worship will guide our conversation and we will be guided by the Holy Spirit.”
The gathering of 65 synods representing the 4.6-million-member Evangelical Lutheran Church in America mirrors a denomination split over homosexuality.
Only celibate gay clergy can serve in ELCA churches. A small majority – 54 percent – of ELCA clergy support gay ordination, according to a Clergy Voices survey conducted in May and posted recently on the denomination’s Web site.
Long conversations, huh? A con artist will drag out the “conversation” as long as necessary to work the scam. Ever heard of Integrity, ELCA? Any Christian church worthy of the name would have said at the start, “This issue is not open to conversation or negotiation as far as changing doctrine or practice.” True “pastoral” care would consist of frank, confidential, private one-on-one counseling and clarity of essential Christian doctrine of sin, salvation, redemption, sanctification and the transformed life and the prayers of the body of Christ for the grace of Jesus for the troubled one. Real despair of one’s own goodness or power to change is one thing, in fact, the necessary starting point for the Christian. Guilting, pressure, political maneuvering, corruption of doctrine and practice are of another spirit, not the Holy Spirit. As John said, those who are truly of Christ will stay. Those who are not of Christ but actually of the world will go out from us when they see that their pity parties and temper tantrums will not get their way.
The “Clergy Voices” survey that’s now being quoted around our church was funded by a San Francisco based pro-homosexual group. Gee, it’s not like our national office is lobbying for anything …
cLink for who paid for the survey:
http://www.haasjr.org/index.php/visitor/who_we_are/mission_statement
You shock me, Brian of Maryland. Who ever heard of a national church office pushing unbiblical changes? You have my prayers this week.
Katherine,
As you dig down into their site, you can see just how politically motivated they (the funding source) are in their zeal. BTW, note what this also means; the financial support for undermining the church’s teaching on marriage and family is not coming exclusively from within the church. Indeed, kind of makes you wonder what else has been funded over the years and by whom:
http://www.haasjr.org/index.php/visitor/our_grantmaking/gays_and_lesbians
A big part of the problem is that it’s the majority of clergy who support gay marriage, but the laypeople don’t. The clergy have been to seminaries where the hear the liberal arguments for gay marriage. etc. I am sure too that there is huge political backing from pro-gay groups. and the gay clergy seem very well organized and funded. At one of the ealier bi-ennial gatherings of the ELCA, gay clergy put out a very well done PR piece which had pictures and stories of ECLA pastors who were out and gay. “We are just like you (straight people); Look at our wonderful partners and families.” was the basic theme. I know a gay Lutheran clergyman. He’s very talented ,a great preacher, been with his partner for 10 years and has two adopted children. He writes very well and the struggles he has as a partner and father are the same struggles straight people have These kinds of peices of PR are very compelling for people on the fence. Of course, one can’t argue with him because he will say “Love isn’t a sin” ; “I was born this way ” or “Gossip and slander are also sins,” which of course, they are. And as has been pointed out on this site by others, hetrosexuals have done a lousy job at marriage. This clergyman I know also has arguments when you say “Well, marriage is intended is the Bible between a man and a woman” or “Homsexual sex is always considered as sin.” If the arguments go too far with some people, it’s immediately said, “You’re a bigot.” Even if you think everybody-gays ands straights whould have civil uinions, you’re still called a bigot. Your church may have white powder sent to it. You may receive death threats. No wonder so many people choose to go with the prevailing social trends and say nothing in denomination gatherings. abuse.
Fenelon,
Having been on the receiving end of the gentle pastoral caring of advocates, I know of what you speak. When one side keeps dropping mortars on the bridge, sooner or later it’s time to jump in the river and pick a shore. As per people going along, they have been able to until now because the official policy of the church has not yet been changed. Once that policy is changed, I think we’re likely to see a different response.
My problem has been the lack of longer-range Lutheran vision related to next steps. Working diligently now to create a new US based Lutheran body doesn’t get at the real problem; how to maintain orthodoxy through the long dark night of corrosive secularism that lies ahead? To that end, ACNA is ahead of us. They are well connected to Christians outside our experience here in the States and are, as long as those distant voices are heeded, more likely to keep U.S. Christians on the narrow road.
Hi, Brian-
I am sorry for the pain that the more conservative people in the denomination are going through. So you are saying that for you and your family the ACNA is ahead of you? I wish you well. Please let us know what transpires at the meeting in MN. I will keep you in prayer as well as the entire gathering.
I wish to add that the person I know who is a Lutheran clergyman would not advocate violence of any kind. Whether he calls people in his denomination “bigots” to their face, I don’t know, but I don’t think so. I honestly feel that this is painful for him as well since he doesn’t want to have to leave his denomination if it continues to vote against gay marriage. I still think marriage should be between men and women and I think the Scripture is unequivocal about it.
Grace and peace to you in Jesus Christ.
As usual, a well-done piece by Julia Duin. I’m glad to know more about when the big votes come up this week. And apparently, one of the biggest is a procedural vote tonight over whether or not to allow a simply majority vote to approve “the recommendation” (permitting regional synods the local option of ordaining active homosexual clergy).
David Handy+
David,
I think I called the right number, but don’t know. Feel free to contact me through our webpage.
StJohnMD.org
BTW,
David has noted tonight will be the first divisive vote: changing from simple majority to 2/3 to accept the recommendations. Most of the synods in assembly this past spring voted in support of the 2/3 vote. The majority of our Bishops have already voted their opinion: 2/3 vote. The national church council has ignored all input and decided a simply majority will be sufficient for this assembly. Changing the procedures requires a 2/3 vote. I doubt the votes are there on the assembly floor to support the change.
The fix is in. Sort of like the taskforce who wrote the recommendations. Only three orthodox where selected to participate amid a team of 15 chosen for the work to be done.
And yet … our PB says he wants to avoid a schism …
Thanks, Brian. We’ve now talked, and I enjoyed getting acquainted. Let’s keep in touch. The outstanding evangelical catholic ELCA parish I spoike of that’s near where I work is Reformation Lutheran in Newport News, VA. A lively place, with passionate worship that’s a nice mix of charismatic fervor and catholic ritual (Eucharist every Sunday with a full eucharistic prayer, not just the Words of Institution, often with the celebrant in a chasuble, modern chant plus contemporary Christian music, etc.).
About the vote tonight, please note that Julia Duin’s article and Brian’s note seem to indicate that the issue isn’t whether the liberals have a majority to pass their agenda in Minneapolis, the question is whether they have the overwhelming 2/3 majority they’ll need. Duin’s article claims the vote is “too close to call.” But I think that only means too close to the 2/3 margin needed.
David Handy+
The proposal to require a two thirds vote to change our policy (rather than the simple majority) was just defeated. No surprise here; tonight’s vote marks the beginning of the collapse of the ELCA.
So it goes …