The Vatican has its own bank, its own postal system, its own pharmacy and its own soccer tournament–but until now, no official state-sponsored airline.
That will change when the Holy See teams up with a small Italian charter company, Mistral Air, to launch a low-cost charter service to ferry pilgrims to many of the most important Catholic shrines, including Lourdes in France, Fatima in Portugal, Czestochowa in Poland and Santiago di Compostela in Spain.
“The spirit of this new initiative is to meet the growing demand by pilgrims to visit the most important sites for the faith,” Father Cesare Atuire of the Vatican pilgrimage office, Opera Romana Pellegrinaggi, told the Rome newspaper La Repubblica.
One (= this liberal cynical one) always expects the worst of the Vatican. Strange how often this expectation is confirmed. Record temperatures over the Eastern Mediterranean, record flooding in the UK, half of Bangladesh under water, Greenland melting, etc. etc. And the Vatican chooses this moment? No more cogent proof of the moral and theological bankruptcy of the present RC hierarchy could be proffered … And yet there are still thousands within Anglicanism who are thinking of ‘swimming the Tiber’ because of WO, ‘non-compliance’ with Windsor, the gay issue, etc. Don’t make me laugh.
And here I was thinking how wonderful to help those with a lesser income make a pilgrimage if they so desire.
#2
Well, Andrew, I think you should just think about moral issues in all their complexity, don’t you?
I do. Most of the recent hysteria about air travel which I have seen has smacked more of wanting to make air travel more expensive and thus more exclusive, as it used to be. It feels like elitist exclusionary impulses wraped in the garb of the latest trendy “science.” Even for those who are members of the Church of Human Global Warming there are better causes, which yield greater returns. Perhaps I am wrong, but it has the feel about it of people annoyed at the “masses” clogging up “their” airports and holiday destinations finding a way to try to clmap it down without revelaing their elitist intentions or sullying their lefty credentials.
And I don’t think your smug condecension helps much.
Not sure where I’m exhibiting ‘smug condescension’. I’m sharply critical. I was trying to let you down lightly – obviously a mistake. As for ‘latest trendy “science” ‘ …
Your number 3 certainly came across as smug. It may not have been intended as such, and if not I appologize. But the statement seemed to say that if one failed to reach the same conclusion that offering a cheaper alternative for pilgrimages demonstrated “theological bankruptcy” then one was not considering the issues in all their complexity. This “if you don’t reach my conclusion then you’re not thinking seriously” came across as smug from one who feels the need to call himself “the learned.”
So the RC is morally and theologically bankrupt for sponsoring pilgrimages by air travel, thus contributing to global warming (which, BTW, I’m not denying GW as a serious issue). I guess all of the Anglican bishops are just going to swim to Lambeth in 2008?
Oh, wait. [b]That’s[/b] why no one is returning their RSVP’s to Canterbury.
I hope Scholasticus doesn’t belch it is, after all, a know pollutant and a cause of global warming, this, according to Norwegian scientists, far worse than than motive pollution.
#6
Andrew, sorry. ‘Scholasticus’ is self-ironic. I don’t want my employers to know how much time I spend on this site. I get fed up with all the adulation of the RC church that goes on on this blog. I think it is quite immoral to launch cheap flights at this moment. I also think that orthodox Christians should consider matters of relative morality: global warming, disastrous as it is and due to become ever more disastrous (as I sincerely believe, having made some effort to master the science), is far more important than what gay men and women do in bed.
I’m sorry my tone appeared/was patronising. I apologise.
Appology accepted. I’ve run into similar online names before, and those individuals used them as a sort of club with which the beat down contrary opinions. The worst sort of the “smug coffee house grad student/assistant professor” sterotype. I’m glad it is not the case here. You just happened to hit one of my buttons, and on a particularly stressful day at work. I apologise for reacting so strongly.
On the issue at hand, I too get tired of the RC adulation, but I feel you have over reacted on this point. I am not convinced on the issue of human-caused global warming. I remain open minded, but the stridency of many of the advocates, unto the point of supressing discussion, gives me pause. Your cynicism lead you to condemn the RC Church, mine leads me to question why this cause has been picked up by some many old lefties as a new way to secure ever greater government control over everyday life, once communism was discredited. Makes me look all the harder at the questions involved.
In this instance, as I alluded earlier, air travel seems to draw a disproportionate amount of ire from the GW folks. To my mind, demanding sharp tax increases on air travel (which will still allow elites to jet off to now less crowded destinations) while opposing the contructions of nuclear power plants to replace coal fired ones makes no sense. To my mind, we ought to open up construction of nuclear power plants (and other alternatives if they make sense, such as hydro or geothermal in some locations) while pouring money into other alternatives, said money coming from scraping farm subsidies and removing trade barriers for food, thus helping to raise living standards in the developing world.
And for the record, I also don’t really give a damn about the gay issue. I’ve said before and now repeat, give me a 100% LGBT House of Bishops if they will be free of the universalist “Christ is one of many equaly valid options” and similar heretical nonsense.
And I apologise about the typos and such. Trying to type it quickly, and I’m spoiled by my Firefox at home with the built-in spellcheck
It seems to me that we are better off tending to our own problems, as opposed to searching for problems in other Churches. There actually is increased interest in [i]walking[/i] to pilgrimage sites in Europe including trails to Canterbury and Santiago de Campostella. But time and distance do not always cooperate. I actually think the Vatican is doing its duty in this case. It is attending to the spiritual wellbeing of her faithful by making it easier to reach various shrines.
John, since you are put off by Rome’s carbon footprint, I have a question for you. Do you walk to church every Sunday?
John are you a provincial American rube who’s never been to Europe? What’s that, you vacation in Provence? You eco-terrorist!
Smug condescending leftists love to gripe about provincial Americans who speak only English and don’t even have a passport. Now only moral cretins would dare to get on an airplane for any reason short of life and death. We’re laughing at your pretensions, John.
I believe John is English
Andrew717 (#10): How in the world does a 100% LGBT HOB become orthodox??????? Aand how does that accord with scripture, for example Romans 1:25-28?????
In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
“One (= this liberal cynical one) always expects the worst of the Vatican. Strange how often this expectation is confirmed. Record temperatures over the Eastern Mediterranean, record flooding in the UK, half of Bangladesh under water, Greenland melting, etc. etc. And the Vatican chooses this moment? No more cogent proof of the moral and theological bankruptcy of the present RC hierarchy could be proffered …”
Oh, the humanity! Oh, ecological genocide most foul! Away! Away! Away with the detestable Pope of Rome and his ecoterrorism!
This really is the silliest complaint against Rome I have ever heard, and I have heard quite a few.
“In this instance, as I alluded earlier, air travel seems to draw a disproportionate amount of ire from the GW folks. To my mind, demanding sharp tax increases on air travel (which will still allow elites to jet off to now less crowded destinations) while opposing the contructions of nuclear power plants to replace coal fired ones makes no sense. To my mind, we ought to open up construction of nuclear power plants (and other alternatives if they make sense, such as hydro or geothermal in some locations) while pouring money into other alternatives, said money coming from scraping farm subsidies and removing trade barriers for food, thus helping to raise living standards in the developing world.”
Sounds like a good plan to me. The late Julian Simon would no doubt approve.
Well Andrew, I’ve certainly met smug Brits who voice the “provincial Americans” meme. I believe my point stands. There’s a fundamental dissonance between the cosmopolitan world-traveller self-image of leftists and their newfound antipathy for commoners traveling by plane.
I think this is a good idea. If the U.S. offered low cost flights to certain destinations for citizens, I bet the liberals would cheer. The Vatican offers it to Catholics (many, who by the way, are not rich by any means), and it is proof of “moral bankruptcy.” People are going to fly to these places anyway, why not save them a few dollars? Oh, wait, because the Catholic Church is evil, that’s why.
Despite a self-righteous attitude, most educated, rich, whites who harp about global warming still use a scandalous amount of energy compared to the rest of the world. And I do believe in global warming, which is one reason (among others) why my rather small apartment’s thermostat is set to 80 in the summer, and why the windows are open each night when the breeze is cool. However, I know that compared to the rest of the world, I am not that great about energy use, so I tend not to judge others about it.
#9: Frater Magnus te spectat!
Eheu fugaces, Postume, Postume,
labuntur anni, nec pietas moram
rugis et instanti senectae
adferet indomitaeque morti ….
Wouldn’t it help the carbon footprint if we apply high taxes on air travel by liberals? That would allow them to feel superior and guilty both at the same time.
And, Gordian: “¿Qué pasa en lo qué tu escribes?” (Sorry, that’s as close as I can get to whatever it was you said :^>.
In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
It seems to me that the Catholic Church’s biggest fault in this issue is still having an economically-viable quantity of faithful interested in pilgrimage, and some modest solicitude to enable those faithful who are economically-burdened (the vast majority) to go on pilgrimage.
I’m also reminded that the Vatican is the world’s ONLY carbon-neutral state.
I have spent 40 years in an exacting scientific discipline where bogus reports are regularly uncovered. That is clearly where Global Warming As Caused By Evil Humans fits. The entire body of obscure apologia for this theory reeks of political and social manipulation of the facts, such as they are just being understood. If anything at all is going on, I think we are due another mini ice age. Cyclical you know. I’ve got another on John Sco. Second hand smoke in most enclosed spaces is certainly not harmful. The “science ” behind it is just bogus, but oh so PC. And what about the horrible silicon implants? Oh my goodnes, but it seems the trendy scientificos a generation ago screwed up on that one too. Have you seen these implants are back in use John Sco? How about the fact that my Great Aunt Frieda wouldn’t unscrew a light bulb in the ceiling because the electricity would pour out and kill every one? I’d sooner believe her than Dr. Algore any day. She baked cookies. Algore as far as I know doesn’t.
Sorry Drew, Vatican City is absolutely NOT the world’s only carbon- neutral state what with all those burning candles and incense!
“…researchers in Norway claiming that a grown moose can produce 2,100 kilos of carbon dioxide a year — equivalent to the CO2 output resulting from a 13,000 kilometer car journey…”
Perhaps the Vatican’s airline could become carbon-neutral, by having every flight strafe a herd of greenhouse gas-producing moose.
And if they dispatch more moose than necessary, they could then sell these excess carbon credits (a.k.a. [i] “indulgences” [/i] ) to people like Mr Scholasticus, to assuage the guilt they feel for emitting their own gases.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,501145,00.html
Dave, I never said a 100% LGBt HoB would be orthodox, just that I am less exercised by the gay issue than the others, like creeping paganism, and universalism.
Andrew: OK, what’s the difference? Why is homosexuality more acceptable than the others? Homosexuality is a violation of scripture, just like the others, so why is it less worrisome?
In faith, Dave
Viva Texas
dave@christos.cjb.net, dpeirce@christian.net
It just bothers me less personally. I don’t think it ought to be blessed, though I may be wrong.
I’ll drop you an email tomorrow, if you’d like a longer discussion. Right now it’s a quarter to one in the morning and I need to hit the sack.
Homosexual practice may be a violation of Scripture, just as is heterosexual fornication and adultery, but denial of the uniquity of Christ, or of the Resurrection, or of the Trinity, or of the objective reality of the Sacraments is denial of the Faith itself. Andrew is right.
You have got to think , the evil genius at work in the Vatican (I rather imagine John Scholasticus pictures a sort of James Bond villian in white cassock) is running out of ideas when the best that they can come up with is to part fund an airline.
BTW Wilfred – I rather like your style.
# 31: A white cassock? I knew it was those d****** Dominicans!
#26: Those Kiwis are ahead of the game!
There are some people who will comment on or criticize anything if it draws attention away from the elephant in the middle of their table. The argument over whether the Vatican should aid those in seeking deeper faith by offering affordable flights to its pilgrims is an excellent example of this.
The steadfast commitment to the truth of Christ and adherence to the faith by the RCC is, far and away, more advanced as a whole than anything the tragically flawed Anglican Communion has shown in the past fifty years.
Perhaps this is best summarized in the Pope’s own words from his recent statement on the struggle against evil in this world. “Christ is not looking for tired conformists, but witnesses of courageous faith, those who burn in the fire of his love.”
The Vatican’s purpose in engaging in this new airline is to assist its faithful members to do precisely that by visiting various shrines in order to facilitate their increasing faith.
I’ll echo #30.
Nikolaus,
Actually, starting this summer, the Vatican has been buying carbon offsets from Hungary and installing solar panels–it really is carbon neutral:
http://www.cathnews.com/news/707/76.php
Wow, I did not know that! Hopefully Scholasticus is still reading.