Having been tipped that the numbers were being shared with the Executive Council during its Oct. 5-8 meeting, I e-mailed church public affairs officer Neva Rae Fox late Wednesday, Oct. 7, and asked for a “copy of the new ASA and membership figures that were passed out to the Executive Council at this week’s meeting.”
She e-mailed me back that “ASA and membership figures have not been passed out to Exec Council.”
So I e-mailed back: “Perhaps passed out is the wrong word. It’s my understanding that the figures are finished and were shared with the Executive Council this week.”
This morning, she responded: “if so, not yet. nothing has been shared yet.”
That didn’t match what I’d been led to believe by a very reliable source. So I asked Anderson and the Presiding Bishop about the numbers during the press conference. Here’s what they said…
Read it all especially the responses to Mr. Lockwood’s question.
All is well.
Perhaps they are reworking them… this time with Significant Figures in mind…
Of course the numbers are down. We lost 4 Dioceses! They are probably 1.8-1.9 million. But then again, if she was off by a single member, she’d be vilified for that too.
[i] Sarcasm edited by elf. Commenter is warned. [/i]
TEC is dropping about 2% members per year and has been for awhile. That’s attrition, without regard for group leavings (parishes and the 4 small to moderate size dioceses). If formal membership does drop below 2 million, however, that would be a significant symbolic blow.
More important, ASA has been dropping at a rate greater than membership for at least the last couple of years. That suggests to be that folks aren’t just dying off and not being replaced (attrition), but involved people are leaving. Again, that’s without consideration of whole groups leaving.
[b]Brian from T19[/b] [[url=”http://new.kendallharmon.net/wp-content/uploads/index.php/t19/article/25784/#395845″]3[/url]] exclaims:
[quote]We lost 4 Dioceses![/quote]
No, dioceses cannot leave. No dioceses have been lost, just a few disaffected people. Whom you wish well because you are diminished when they’re not at the table, but if that’s the way they feel … . Being prophetic sometimes has costs, but it’s all good.
Please review the official position papers and try to stay on message. Thank you.
regards,
JPB
Mrs. Schori did say something in Wyoming. Here it is:
“Attendance at the Episcopal Church is declining just as it is at other traditional denominations. The average Episcopal congregation has 75 worshippers on a Sunday and 19,000 more members of the aging church die than are born each year. The presiding bishop said the solution is to reach out to growing populations, including Hispanics, who have not been part of what is mistakenly perceived as a white, upper class church that kneels and stands and supports gays and lesbians. “The task of evangelism is to present worship in a language that can be understood and shape worship to speak to a new generation. It’s not necessarily change. It’s addition,†Jefferts Schori said.” She implied there was a problem and suggested a solution. Whether her understanding of the problem and her solution mean anything is a matter of debate. So far, her approaches suggest she hasn’t a clue.
Regardless of what the numbers are, we won’t believe them. That’s because they’re not really accurate, are they? Question: Is there an independent, objective organization that measures membership and attendance?
[blockquote]No, dioceses cannot leave. No dioceses have been lost, just a few disaffected people. Whom you wish well because you are diminished when they’re not at the table, but if that’s the way they feel … . Being prophetic sometimes has costs, but it’s all good.[/blockquote]
Well, it is true that no diocese have been lost. They are now dioceses of [i]Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sur de América[/i]. TEC should not be counting them as dioceses in union with General Convention, they are not.
There is, of course, such a thing as false prophets. And that is not good.
[blockquote]The presiding bishop said the solution is to reach out to growing populations, including Hispanics, who have not been part of what is mistakenly perceived as a white, upper class church that kneels and stands and supports gays and lesbians.[/blockquote]
Most of those folks running the show at 815 and General Convention are, in point of fact, “white, upper class” folk.
Most Hispanics are quite accustomed to a church that “kneels and stands”. Check out the Cathedral Shrine of the Virgin of Guadalupe here in Dallas–its Sunday attendance is huge, and mostly Hispanic.
Most Hispanics are not into the “supports gays and lesbians” game. You might start talking about Jesus Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, who for us and our salvation was crucified and is risen…and will come again to judge the quick and the dead. That seems to be where Hispanics are.
Hispanic TEC churches aren’t hurting too bad, either:
San Mateo, Houston
http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_109200915226PM.pdf
I knew this as St. Matthews from 1972 onwards, during which time the parish flourished and foundered under a succession of Anglo groups.
San Juan Apostal – Fort Worth
http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_109200915424PM.pdf
Iglesia San Miguel
http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_109200915454PM.pdf
Neither are hurting. I don’t know how they relate to the split in FW.
St. Simon of Cyrene, Fort Worth – a black parish holding it’s own. I think (may be wrong) it stayed with the TEC diocese. Of course, Bp. Iker gave them the building (they just built an addition, so there may be a mortgage, too).
http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_109200915606PM.pdf
Ah, the real reason the TEC wants to be international…………so it can count places where they actually go…to church, I mean, on Sunday.