In her recent address to the Scottish Episcopal Church, the Presiding Bishop used the same list that she used in Southwark, but began her address to another “Episcopal Church” by defending the use of the name “The” Episcopal Church: “we’ve struggled with what to call ourselves because ECUSA is not accurate.” In fact, the official name of TEC as designated in its constitution is“The Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America, otherwise known as The Episcopal Church (which name is hereby recognized as also designating the Church).” She also stated that the Churches in Europe were “rapidly becoming indigenized.” The data show that they have declined 13% since 2003 from an ASA of 1500 to 1302.
TEC is not, of course, the only “international” church in the Anglican Communion. Others include the West Indies, Central America, Southern Cone, Ireland, West Africa, Central Africa, Southern Africa, Indian Ocean, Jerusalem and the Middle East, Southeast Asia, Melanesia and Aotearoa New Zealand and Polynesia.
But the most international of all Anglican churches remains the Church of England. In addition to churches extra-provincial to Canterbury in Spain, Portugal, Bermuda, Ceylon and the Falkland Islands, the Church of England’s Diocese in Europe includes parishes or missions in forty-three countries with a weekly attendance of 12,600.
The quotes are the usual spin and froth. sigh….
Yet another illustration of Mrs Schori’s endless capacity for mendacity. Do her supporters really believe what she says, or does she get support merely because of her two X chromosomes, trendy-lefty politics, and Laodicean theology?
I wish it were mere spin. Every person I have heard from the National Office uses this same intro and greeting, no matter what context we’re in at the time. It’s as if this has become the required mantra and first talking point for every conversation. This is a major sales pitch underway.
[b][i]2. A Senior Priest[/i][/b],
Your mention of mendacity simply reinforces my decision to repurpose the digram [b]PB[/b] (in relation to her) to signify [b]P[/b][i]revaricating[/i] [b]B[/b][i]ishop[/i]. Unfortunately, [b]they really do believe it[/b], at least those like the Rector of our final Episcopal parish before we became Catholic. He is extremely (liturgically) conservative—we were a parish that explicitly affirmed the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, had a monstrance and humeral veil, and they were used most Saturday evenings for Contemplation and Benediction, usually in conjunction with Evening Prayer or Choral Evensong—but very (socially) liberal, a former Counter-Intel Marine, who met her when she visited our Diocese 2+ years ago, and then described her to the parish as “a very spiritual person.” [Place wool hood above head with opening facing down and distended. Pull down on hood. Secure with drawstrings as desired.] I do owe him a debt of gratitude, because his sacramentality did bring both myself and my wife to a conscious realization of just how sacramentally Catholic we had become. So, when I learned that the Executive Council had joined TEC to the RCRC, an action beyond their remit, it made it quite clear that there were only two places we could go from TEC, the Catholic Church or an Orthodox Church, and the latter has very heavy ethnic baggage for either of us—my wife was a cradle Episcopalian, I was a convert from LCMS in 1969.
The prevalence of this phenomenon, a form of [i]wishful thinking[/i] I suspect, reinforced by her ability to [i]sound[/i] erudite while spewing nonsense (I’m intentionally being generous by choice of that term), is just one more bit of evidence that seems to support my perception that the overwhelming majority of [i]progressives[/i] (political, social and/or theological) are Myers-Briggs “[i]Feeling[/i]” types. Which is to say they don’t make decisions on the basis of a linear sequential process of ratiocination from facts and premises to a logically-driven conclusion, as a “[i]Thinking[/i]” type, like myself, would attempt to do. Rather, even when they utilized that process, if the conclusion doesn’t “[i]feel right[/i]”, they will reject that conclusion and adjust the premises and/or facts to enable them to arrive at a conclusion that does “[i]feel right[/i].” I can’t prove this hypothesis, but it would account for the frequency, tone and logical content, actually absence thereof, in the responses one hear’s from most of them when engaged in rhetorical disputation.
Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer
Hi Martial Artist — T’s on the Myers Briggs can unfortunately be incredibly irrational and illogical.
My read on KJS’s MBTI is that she’s an INTJ.
The problem, of course, is not her MBTI personality, but rather her character.
There are plenty of fine upstanding INTJs . . . and even, heaven help us all, ENFPs [my old business partner] . . . who have excellent character and rational processes.
To understand KJS, even with her INTJ personality, I think one merely needs to read Jude.
Looking at those numbers in Europe, is there a good reason why TEC doesn’t simply cede the Convocation of American Churches in Europe to the CoE’s Diocese in Europe? There actually might be, but I’m curious on what that reason or those reasons might be, besides American ex-pat comforts and TEC constitutional concerns.
Also, is there any surprise that the “official” anything from this PB is outside the constitutional description?
Jeff Rowthorn, a welshman, suffragan in CT, was appointed Bishop and sought more coordination of the two (if memory serves, Henry Scriven was his counterpart at the time). Not sure of the state of affairs at present — and the PB’s US-based TEC idea is probably not helping matters.Then again, they are very different in size and composition. I did summer supply in the late 70s, early 80s in Munich. A good example of the difference, in that the congregation had military as well as expat commerical links; there was then a US church in Wiesbaden, for example. But the US rolled back military presence at this time. The size difference is also a factor, as has been noted. There are 11 parishes in Aquitaine alone (british wine trade, holiday making, Helen of Aquitaine, Churchill painting in Bordeaux, etc). I think the figures show 400 in church in France in the US churches (the Cathedral in Paris), probably with a good dollop of tourists. Obviously Europe includes the UK, and cheap air fares mean lots of toing and froing for holidays/second homes/retirement abroad, etc.
PS–when the Presiding Bishop ceased being a diocesan, the anomaly was addressed by saying the Convocation was the ‘diocese’ of the PB. So if it were ceded over–difficult for reasons noted above, and not likely to happen–the PB would have no ‘diocese.’ Probably doesn’t matter to the present incumbent, as she appears to think every diocese is to some extent hers to oversee. Not having any diocese of her own, she has them all, including the 16 nations of her domain.
[b][i]5. Sarah[/i][/b],
You may be correct, and I may be wrong, about the [b][i]PB[/i][/b] being an INTJ, and I would agree with you that the root of the problem is her character (hence my personal “usage” of the two-letter acronym PB when referring to her). And you are correct that INTJs can be irrational and illogical. However, I believe that to be the case mostly in situations when they are behaving neurotically, or they surrender their moral and intellectual integrity for other reasons. If a “T” is being rigorously honest in their thought processes, then they will be neither irrational nor illogical. At least, such is my experience (I am an INTJ, with Thinking as my dominant function). If you and I were having a discussion, and you adduced reliable factual evidence that a conclusion I had proposed (even a tentative one) were incorrect, my initial reaction is to reexamine my own thinking on the question. With someone like the PB, who has now had the habit of lying on this and related topics for at least two years, it is difficult to tell with what sort of person you are dealing.
Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer
P.S. Even if the PB is not an “F,” the argumentation provided by most of those on the [i]progressive[/i] side of most issues appears to me to exemplify “F” aspects more than it does “T” aspects.
P.P.S. Have you seen the grid of “Prayers of Myers-Briggs Types” during your perambulations? If not, let me know and I will send you a copy via PM.
Martial Artist,
It’s been some time since I did anything with Myers-Briggs, and I may be completely wrong, but what you describe as the T-F distinction sounds to me more like the S-N distinction (as I understand it).
However, I’d agree with your point that people who take a ‘liberal’ theological view tend to be F rather than T – i.e. their aim is to avoid causing upset to others, rather than being focused on completing a task. I speak as an INFP who struggles with this issue!
[b][i]10. William S[/i][/b],
I am sorry to inform you that you have got it a bit wrong. S & N refer to the extremes of the function by which people perceive, [i]i.e.[/i] gather and interpret new information. S ≡ Sensing, N ≡ intuition. These can be defined operationally as follows: A sensing person prefers (or is more effective by) gathering and interpreting new information by being shown all of the details, from which he or she will then construct an interior model of the whole. An intuitive person prefers (or is more effective by) seeing the overall structure first, at which point they can then begin to examine the more detailed substructure of whatever is being studied.
By contrast, in Jungian and Myers-Briggs terms, [i]Thinking[/i] and [i]Feeling[/i] are the decision-making functions.
On your second point, concerning not upsetting other people, [i]Feeling[/i] has very little to do with emotions. Rather, [blockquote]those who prefer thinking tend to decide things from a more detached standpoint, measuring the decision by what seems reasonable, logical, causal, consistent and matching a given set of rules. Those who prefer feeling tend to come to decisions by associating or empathizing with the situation, looking at it ‘from the inside’ and weighing the situation to achieve, on balance, the greatest harmony, consensus and fit, considering the needs of the people involved.[/blockquote] Stated more simply, the use of feeling, can be thought of as making a decision based not on a linear and sequential process, but rather on whether the decision “feels like the right one.”
Wikipedia has a fairly good explanation of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, from which the block quote above was excerpted. Much of what I have added is from my own experience working (on my own psyche) with a Jungian therapist in the 1970s, plus doing a bit of reading in Jung (in the English translation by R. F. C. Hull).
Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer
Dr. Seitz,
Thanks for adding your perspective here. I’m glad Mark McCall exposed the ludicrous nature of the proud TEC boast of being a mini-Communion of “16 nations” besides the US, when some of those international dioceses are so teeny tiny. Facts are stubborn things, and unfortunately, the PB doesn’t seem to have any more respect for facts than she does for TEC’s canons. Unfortunately, for her, the end seems to justify any and all means. I’m glad the ACI called her on that misleading ploy TEC has adopted.
Keith and Sarah,
While Sarah could well be right in guessing that the PB may be a T of some sort and maybe even an INTJ, and while she’s certainly right that what matters is her character and not her temperament type, I still think that Keith has a valid point as a general concern. I’ve long been troubled by the fact that such an overwhelming majority of TEC clergy are NFs in Myers-Briggs’ terms.
Maybe that’s because I’m an INTP myself. It’s not that I have something against Feeling types (I married one), but I think that it’s unhealthy for a denomination to be so dominated by just one personality type. For example, among Southern Baptists and Roman Catholics, according to informal, anecdotal reports I’ve heard, the dominant MB type are SJ’s. But they are in short supply among TEC leaders, a majority of whom are indeed NFs.
David Handy+
Now see . . . the libs I read and hear, by and large strike me as the Ps. Vague, rambling, continually open-ended, indecisive . . . I’ve also often thought that RW is a P.
I just don’t think it’s a T/F issue. Many of the charismatic yet traditional Episcopalians I’ve known are rampantly F.
No, I just think that Jefferts Schori, as with a number of other progressive activists in TEC, is most likely severely mentally ill. A person of the lie, as Scott Peck would put it. And such people — deeply dysfunctional, fractured, and delusional — don’t know that they are “of the lie.” They are unaware of it. That’s what makes it so frightening.
They simply don’t know nor can they recognize that, for instance, they are not the Queen of Sheba. No amount of logic or reason will convince them that they are not the Queen of Sheba. And that’s not because they’re “Fs” — we insult the Fs when we assert that. It’s simply because they’re very sick people.