For 2002 through 2009, Members are down 13.5 percent, ASA down 19.3 percent, and Plate & Pledge down 12.1 percent when adjusted for inflation. There are now (USA) less than 7,000 churches (6,895) and less than 700,000 ASA (682,763). But TEC (USA) managed to hold the 2 million Member level (2,006,343) by the misreporting by Fort Worth, Quincy, Los Angeles, and Ohio. I would have never expected to see the day that Money losses would rival Member losses. And Money losses in 2009 may have been somewhat reduced by many parishioners maintaining their pledges in order to offset large losses in Trust incomes. Statmann
Go [url=http://www.episcopalchurch.org/109378_ENG_HTM.htm ]here[/url] to find the following reports:
* Statistical Totals for the Episcopal Church by Province: 2008 – 2009
* Statistical Totals for the Episcopal Church by Province and Diocese: 2008 – 2009
* Domestic Fast Facts: 2009
* Domestic Fast Fact Trends: 2005-2009
In 2009, we lost the ASA of three average dioceses! With a 2008 ASA TEC wide of 747,376 and 107 dioceses, we have an avg diocese of roughtly 7,000 ASA. Our ASA loss TEC wide was about 22,600 – more than three average diocese.
To put it in more stark terms, we lost more than the ASA of every single diocese in TEC with the exception of Virginia and Texas.
Why are not heads rolling at 815???
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Please, Phil+. We have the from the PBess:
[blockquote] The number of Episcopalians leaving the church over same-sex unions and gay clergy has dropped, according to the faith’s presiding bishop.
“There were very, very few in the past year,†the Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori[/blockquote]
Form the Domestic Fast Facts (see my link above), we have that there were 69 less parishes from 2008 to 2009, or 1% of parishes closed, but there are 276 parishes with a ASA of 10 or less. That’s 4% of parishes. I don’t think it unreasonable to say that 10% of parishes have an ASA of 25 or less. Almost all of these would be diocesan supported.
In the brouhaha about the recent loan, there was talk about “rightsizing” the budget. It seems to me that dioceses aren’t making the tough choices and closing non-viable parishes. Certainly understandable, but this inertia stands in contrast to Ms Schori’s desire to be “nimble” and avoid “suicide by governance” (but I really have no idea what Ms Schori meant but the later phrase). The inability to make the tough calls threatens the diocesan ships.
robroy, note that the “EPISCOPAL DOMESTIC FAST FACTS: 2009” has an arithmetic error in it. The “Net Change in Active Membership from Previous Year” for 2009 should be -50,949 rather than -51,949 (because 2,057,292 minus 2,006,343 equals 50,949).
That means, on net average, over 139 people per day in the United States left the Episcopal Church (50,949/365=139.6).
[i]”…The number of Episcopalians leaving the church over same-sex unions and gay clergy has dropped” [/i]
The TEC PB is probably correct there.
Those who left because of the issue sexual immorality have probably already left. However, that number is a great deal larger than the ACNA population because many went to the RC, Orthodox, PCA, Baptist and Continuing Anglican churches.
However, now people are leaving (or not ever joining) due to the lack of Biblical integrity and the Power and Life of the Holy Spirit and the stupidity and falseness of what they are preaching.
TEC has become fomenters of every kind of social utopian political agenda propaganda (man’s attempts to achieve his own salvation, other than God’s way). The latest social theories, and ancient heresies (global religion/government, global warming, pluralism, socialism, pansexualism, feminism, abortion propaganda, syncretism, philosophical, psychological, paganism, even wiccan tripe) can be found in their bookstores.
Their services (look up videos of Glasspool’s ‘consecration’) are full of inter-faith syncretism (spiritual pollution) and compromise of Biblical truth.
TEC is on the whole (there are exceptions) not preaching the Scripture, not preaching True Gospel of salvation/redemption, transformation/sanctification, of Christ and His Cross, Blood, Resurrection. The General Convention does not blush to contradict or ignore Scripture, tradition or even reason and evidence in science, medicine and CDC statistics or even the Constitution of TEC. By not adhering to holy Love, Truth and Life defined in Scripture) but substituting counterfeits of God’s message and mission, they have nothing to offer and they will shrivel and die.
If they have hoped to draw from the pansexual community, they will be disappointed. They will lose these members to AIDS. (latest stats in the news: 1/5 of all practicing homosexuals have AIDS and 44% of those don’t know they have it). Heterosexual promiscuity also dramatically increases incidence of AIDS and other STDs. Teens in Conyers, GA and South Floridian retirees rocked CDC statistics and proved that point.
What TEC is spouting is disease, relational emotional chaos and misery and death…both physical and spiritual/eternal death.
1. Statmann
Could you say more about how Fort Worth, Quincy, Los Angeles, and Ohio numbers are misreported? What are the real numbers? Who misreported: Diocese? National Church? Both?
Pelican Anglican: The basic problem is that the dioceses not only claim the property of departed parishes, but also claim the Members, ASA, and Plate & Pledge. To claim Members and ASA is wrong but understandable. To claim Plate & Pledge that the diocese DID NOT receive is truly odd. I wonder if +Ohl in Fort Worth declares income on his 1040 that he DID NOT receive? I am sure that the IRS would gladly accept tax payments on this bogus income. If one wants to “spin” stats, at least do not be stupid! My estimates for Members and ASA for Fort Worth are 5,300 and 1,600. For Quincy, they are 575 and 250. In 2009, Los Angeles and Ohio finally realized the Plate & Pledge error and posted them at ZERO. My estimates for overstated Members are 2,450 for Los Angeles and 2,300 for Ohhio. My estimates for overstated ASA are 990 for Los Angeles and 1,040 for Ohio. Statmann
Thanks Statmann! Very helpful. I’m still puzzled about where a diocese gets ASA info on departed congregations. Of course, there’s always the option of just making things up I suppose
I see a big decrease in Albany’s ASA from 2008 to 2009. Anyone know what the story is there? It looks like staying in and standing for the faith is not so slowly strangling their health. Whatever the story, pray for them.
For 2002 through 2009, South Carolina led the way with a 13.9 percent increase in Members. The only other dioceses to have Member increases were North Carolina with 2.0 percent and Tennessee with 4.5 percent. And South Carolina was the ONLY diocese to have an increse in ASA (3.3 percent). Statmann
In the case of Albany and ASA, I’ll venture a guess that it is the “fatigue” effect (a term I stole from a past blogger). Small, declining churches just keep asking fewer to do more. Also, Aging causes more to stay at home but still remain loyal members. And Albany has a lot of small churches. In 2009, Albany had 72 percent (83 of 116) of its churches with ASA of 66 or less (using the TEC Median of 66, it would be 58 of 116). And in 2009, Money was again a big issue with 88 percent (102 of 116) of its churches with Plate & Pledge of less than $150K which means that each “rich” church had about 7 “poor” churches to help. And then add to all this the lousy fiscal condition of New York. Kyrie eleison. Statmann
I’d say it’s pretty clear that DioXC is “out of step” with the EcUSA. IT IS GROWING BY THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION not the “loss of members = vibrant” mantra of the hirelings at 815.
For 2002 through 2009, Members are down 13.5 percent, ASA down 19.3 percent, and Plate & Pledge down 12.1 percent when adjusted for inflation. There are now (USA) less than 7,000 churches (6,895) and less than 700,000 ASA (682,763). But TEC (USA) managed to hold the 2 million Member level (2,006,343) by the misreporting by Fort Worth, Quincy, Los Angeles, and Ohio. I would have never expected to see the day that Money losses would rival Member losses. And Money losses in 2009 may have been somewhat reduced by many parishioners maintaining their pledges in order to offset large losses in Trust incomes. Statmann
If your’e going to adjust Plate & Pledge for inflation, care to run the attendance/membership figures relative to population growth in the USA?
Go [url=http://www.episcopalchurch.org/109378_ENG_HTM.htm ]here[/url] to find the following reports:
* Statistical Totals for the Episcopal Church by Province: 2008 – 2009
* Statistical Totals for the Episcopal Church by Province and Diocese: 2008 – 2009
* Domestic Fast Facts: 2009
* Domestic Fast Fact Trends: 2005-2009
For example, from the Domestic Fast Fact Trends, we have the five year percent ASA change for the domestic dioceses for the past five years:
Five Year % Change in ASA -8% -11% -14% -14% -14%
Sort of a moving average. It seems to have plateaued and stayed at 14% which translates to a fairly fixed 3% loss per year.
In 2009, we lost the ASA of three average dioceses! With a 2008 ASA TEC wide of 747,376 and 107 dioceses, we have an avg diocese of roughtly 7,000 ASA. Our ASA loss TEC wide was about 22,600 – more than three average diocese.
To put it in more stark terms, we lost more than the ASA of every single diocese in TEC with the exception of Virginia and Texas.
Why are not heads rolling at 815???
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Please, Phil+. We have the from the PBess:
[blockquote] The number of Episcopalians leaving the church over same-sex unions and gay clergy has dropped, according to the faith’s presiding bishop.
“There were very, very few in the past year,†the Rev. Katharine Jefferts Schori[/blockquote]
If you’ll notice the Ft. Worth numbers have been adjusted down since the original data release. Quincy has been changed too but only trivially.
Form the Domestic Fast Facts (see my link above), we have that there were 69 less parishes from 2008 to 2009, or 1% of parishes closed, but there are 276 parishes with a ASA of 10 or less. That’s 4% of parishes. I don’t think it unreasonable to say that 10% of parishes have an ASA of 25 or less. Almost all of these would be diocesan supported.
In the brouhaha about the recent loan, there was talk about “rightsizing” the budget. It seems to me that dioceses aren’t making the tough choices and closing non-viable parishes. Certainly understandable, but this inertia stands in contrast to Ms Schori’s desire to be “nimble” and avoid “suicide by governance” (but I really have no idea what Ms Schori meant but the later phrase). The inability to make the tough calls threatens the diocesan ships.
robroy, note that the “EPISCOPAL DOMESTIC FAST FACTS: 2009” has an arithmetic error in it. The “Net Change in Active Membership from Previous Year” for 2009 should be -50,949 rather than -51,949 (because 2,057,292 minus 2,006,343 equals 50,949).
That means, on net average, over 139 people per day in the United States left the Episcopal Church (50,949/365=139.6).
[i]”…The number of Episcopalians leaving the church over same-sex unions and gay clergy has dropped” [/i]
The TEC PB is probably correct there.
Those who left because of the issue sexual immorality have probably already left. However, that number is a great deal larger than the ACNA population because many went to the RC, Orthodox, PCA, Baptist and Continuing Anglican churches.
However, now people are leaving (or not ever joining) due to the lack of Biblical integrity and the Power and Life of the Holy Spirit and the stupidity and falseness of what they are preaching.
TEC has become fomenters of every kind of social utopian political agenda propaganda (man’s attempts to achieve his own salvation, other than God’s way). The latest social theories, and ancient heresies (global religion/government, global warming, pluralism, socialism, pansexualism, feminism, abortion propaganda, syncretism, philosophical, psychological, paganism, even wiccan tripe) can be found in their bookstores.
Their services (look up videos of Glasspool’s ‘consecration’) are full of inter-faith syncretism (spiritual pollution) and compromise of Biblical truth.
TEC is on the whole (there are exceptions) not preaching the Scripture, not preaching True Gospel of salvation/redemption, transformation/sanctification, of Christ and His Cross, Blood, Resurrection. The General Convention does not blush to contradict or ignore Scripture, tradition or even reason and evidence in science, medicine and CDC statistics or even the Constitution of TEC. By not adhering to holy Love, Truth and Life defined in Scripture) but substituting counterfeits of God’s message and mission, they have nothing to offer and they will shrivel and die.
If they have hoped to draw from the pansexual community, they will be disappointed. They will lose these members to AIDS. (latest stats in the news: 1/5 of all practicing homosexuals have AIDS and 44% of those don’t know they have it). Heterosexual promiscuity also dramatically increases incidence of AIDS and other STDs. Teens in Conyers, GA and South Floridian retirees rocked CDC statistics and proved that point.
What TEC is spouting is disease, relational emotional chaos and misery and death…both physical and spiritual/eternal death.
1. Statmann
Could you say more about how Fort Worth, Quincy, Los Angeles, and Ohio numbers are misreported? What are the real numbers? Who misreported: Diocese? National Church? Both?
subs
Pelican Anglican: The basic problem is that the dioceses not only claim the property of departed parishes, but also claim the Members, ASA, and Plate & Pledge. To claim Members and ASA is wrong but understandable. To claim Plate & Pledge that the diocese DID NOT receive is truly odd. I wonder if +Ohl in Fort Worth declares income on his 1040 that he DID NOT receive? I am sure that the IRS would gladly accept tax payments on this bogus income. If one wants to “spin” stats, at least do not be stupid! My estimates for Members and ASA for Fort Worth are 5,300 and 1,600. For Quincy, they are 575 and 250. In 2009, Los Angeles and Ohio finally realized the Plate & Pledge error and posted them at ZERO. My estimates for overstated Members are 2,450 for Los Angeles and 2,300 for Ohhio. My estimates for overstated ASA are 990 for Los Angeles and 1,040 for Ohio. Statmann
Thanks Statmann! Very helpful. I’m still puzzled about where a diocese gets ASA info on departed congregations. Of course, there’s always the option of just making things up I suppose
Pelican Anglican: For departed parishes they just report the ASA for the previous year. Statmann
I see a big decrease in Albany’s ASA from 2008 to 2009. Anyone know what the story is there? It looks like staying in and standing for the faith is not so slowly strangling their health. Whatever the story, pray for them.
For 2002 through 2009, South Carolina led the way with a 13.9 percent increase in Members. The only other dioceses to have Member increases were North Carolina with 2.0 percent and Tennessee with 4.5 percent. And South Carolina was the ONLY diocese to have an increse in ASA (3.3 percent). Statmann
In the case of Albany and ASA, I’ll venture a guess that it is the “fatigue” effect (a term I stole from a past blogger). Small, declining churches just keep asking fewer to do more. Also, Aging causes more to stay at home but still remain loyal members. And Albany has a lot of small churches. In 2009, Albany had 72 percent (83 of 116) of its churches with ASA of 66 or less (using the TEC Median of 66, it would be 58 of 116). And in 2009, Money was again a big issue with 88 percent (102 of 116) of its churches with Plate & Pledge of less than $150K which means that each “rich” church had about 7 “poor” churches to help. And then add to all this the lousy fiscal condition of New York. Kyrie eleison. Statmann
I’d say it’s pretty clear that DioXC is “out of step” with the EcUSA. IT IS GROWING BY THE DICTIONARY DEFINITION not the “loss of members = vibrant” mantra of the hirelings at 815.