The Bishop of Indianapolis on the Release of the JSC report

What an amazing turn of events! The overall response of the Joint Committee to the House of Bishops message is positive ”“ yet the Evangelicals in the Church of England demand that the ABC denounce the church in the US over the possibility of consecrating a partnered gay to the episcopate – and our blessing of same sex unions! They threaten to divide the English church over this – just as TEC is threatened.

We simply have to be more vocal about this….the C of E blesses same-sex unions. The partnered homosexual clergy in the C of E are entitled, under British law, to register their relationships in order to gain the legal benefits accorded them. The C or E House of Bishops issued a statement to that effect in November or December of 2005.

Following that C of E HOB statement a condemnatory letter issued from Nigeria – reminding the English church that TEC and others were being ostracized for that sort of thing. But outrage at the C of E does not seem to have any staying power — either in other parts of the Communion or in TEC. When Bishop Mark Sisk and I asked the ABC about same-sex blessings – about what the difference is between what happens in the Cof E and what happens in some places here he answered, “They ( in England) are not public.”

Read it all.


Posted in * Anglican - Episcopal, - Anglican: Primary Source, -- Statements & Letters: Bishops, Anglican Primates, Episcopal Church (TEC), Primates Mtg Dar es Salaam, Feb 2007, Sept07 HoB Meeting, TEC Bishops, TEC Conflicts

23 comments on “The Bishop of Indianapolis on the Release of the JSC report

  1. Rick Killough says:

    If I understand it correctly, the CoE is being forced by the government to conduct these blessings, whereas TEC voluntarily does it.
    Now, that may argue for a stiffer stand by the CoE against the British government, but there is a distinction, with difference.

  2. Br. Michael says:

    An example how innovation builds upon inovation and is used to justify the next. It appears that everything is up for grabs with these people.

  3. PadreWayne says:

    Rick, I believe you are incorrect — the C of E is [i]not[/i] required to bless civil partnerships.

  4. robroy says:

    No, rather the CoE must recognize civil unions of their clergy and pay benefits. But Rick’s conclusion is correct: “Now, that may argue for a stiffer stand by the CoE against the British government, but there is a distinction, with difference.”

  5. robroy says:

    The statistics showing the diocese of Indianopolis’ slide to oblivion may be found [url= ]here[/url]. Gamaliel still speaks.

  6. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    Driver 8 put the position in the Church of England clearly [url= ]here[/url] and [http:// ]here[/url]
    SSB’s are not approved or permitted for such relationships. We do have disobedient priests but they run the risk of sanction under the rules.
    I am fed up with hearing this tripe from the uninformed along with all the racist rubbish about polygamous, polytheistic African Anglicans.
    It is a disgrace and don’t look to us for justification for what you are advocating bishop.

  7. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    The second here is [url=]here[/url]

  8. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    By the way the CofE is under no current or proposed legal compulsion to provide SSB’s either now or in the future so far as I am aware.

  9. Billy says:

    The key point for this bishop is that this is all about power and the apparent loss of it by men. And there is no question that TEC has become over the last 30 years a feminized organization (look at how few men’s groups there are and how few men attend church). But unfortunately for this bishop, those statistics go against what she is saying. Men don’t want power in TEC. Men have abandoned TEC to the organization it has become, a small ineffective sect of politically liberal extremist, who are constantly begging for attention by saying outrageous things and throwing around its money from dead people’s trust funds. This bishop needs to put her priesthood first, and her feminism second. But I find most politically liberal female priests are unable to do that … their political liberalism always seems to be their primary motivation, even if it conflicts and confounds their priestly duties. Very sad.

  10. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    #5 Dr Dr Rob Roy – those figures are extraordinary – can you really have a diocese of just over 4,000 worshippers? Many of our deaneries are larger than that. How do they keep going and pay for a bishop as well?

  11. Irenaeus says:

    Pageantmaster [#10]: There are U.S. dioceses with far fewer than 4,000 worshipers. Even as ECUSA’s membership has declined, it has created more dioceses.

  12. Helen says:

    This is what baffles me: How can we in the orthodox wing of TEC think that realignment (with an African province, for example) will solve our problems, when a corrupt C of E is still our flagship, and we are under a weak or vacillating Archibishop?

  13. Fred says:

    For a bishop who admits she doesn’t speak out much, when she does, she hits the nail on the head! Calling the C of E evangelicals on their hypocracy exactly what ALL our bishops should be doing. Kudos to her for stepping up!

  14. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    Helen – I wish you could visit us – I think you would be very comfortable in the CofE. We are occassionally boring on our off days but corrupt I do not recognise; in theology we are a world away from the TEC innovations.

    Fred – you know better than to join in the tripe.

  15. The_Elves says:

    To follow up on Pageantmaster & Ireneaus’ comments on small dioceses, to be precise there are 42 TEC domestic dioceses with Avg. Sunday attendance of less than 5000 members. (i.e. 42%)

    The average TEC diocesan ASA (2005) was 7,873

    As far as membership, there are only 8 domestic dioceses with membership less than 5,000 as of 2005.

  16. pendennis88 says:

    #10 – Just to give you an idea, the two largest of the Northern Virginia CANA churches have combined ASA and budgets exceeding that of all the parishes in the entire Diocese of Indianapolis. Either one of them alone, I believe, is larger than the entire Diocese of Nevada that the current Presiding Bishop comes from. (I may be off by a little, but not by much.)

  17. wildfire says:

    PM #6

    I am fed up with hearing this tripe from the uninformed along with all the racist rubbish about polygamous, polytheistic African Anglicans.
    It is a disgrace and don’t look to us for justification for what you are advocating bishop.

    Very well said. Thank you.

  18. Hoskyns says:

    Fred (13), please could you clarify where you see the hypocrisy in the CEEC statement? I’m prepared to believe all sorts of things about the current key players there, but can’t understand what you mean by hypocrisy. The C of E does NOT bless same sex partnerships, and while legally required to grant the requisite employment protection etc. to registered partnerships it has stated (somewhat implausibly) that it will expect those who register them to be celibate.

  19. tjmcmahon says:

    Pageantmaster (re: #10):
    Check out the diocese of Northern Michigan (my current diocese)- a total ASA of 800 (which is an increase from last year).
    You probably have PARISHES bigger than that. Falls Church and Christ Church Plano (which have departed TEC) could be dioceses by this standard.
    If you have followed the diocese’s pronouncements on SF, you will understand that small ASA is not the only problem.

  20. JonReinert says:

    I am very intrigued by the numbers The Elves posted above. However there are some other numbers I would like to see. We have been running a ‘Ministering Communities’ program here in Perth over the last 15 years which was supposedly based on work in Nevada under a previous Bishop. What I want to know is how many congregations in Nevada, their size and how many stipended clergy they have. Reason being, all we have ended up with is a lot of very stressed unpaid clergy trying to run a day job and a parish at the same time.
    Jon R

  21. Pageantmaster Ù† says:

    Thanks Elves, tj, Irenaeus, Mark et al. A real eye-opener. Just looking at this I was struck by an overwhelming sadness that the US church is struggling on in decline while some have their eyes set on social action, inclusiveness, property litigation, in fact anything but Christ and building the kingdom. Probably like the UK, the rest of the country just passes us by with incomprehension seeing only the squabbling. No doubt in each of these dioceses there are many people struggling on trying to keep things going as JonReinert describes. It is just tragic, but well done to those who are showing the commitment and prayers for your efforts.

  22. Anselmic says:

    I’m not sure the Bishops statements are really worth commenting upon, but for what it’s worth, the charge of hypocrisy against Evangelicals really won’t stick. Look at the Church Society Webpage, Reform, the Church of Engalnd Evangelical Council. There are plenty of position papers and press releases criticising both the CofE’s stance with regard to Civil Partnerships, the unofficial practice of SSB’s, and Rowans own Theology. Those Evangelicals who are now being charged with hypocrisy were the same ones who opposed the consecration of Jeffrey John a partnered but celibate homosexual as bishop of Reading. Sorry they have been entirely consistent unlike the Prime Bishop Schori and Ecusa’s house of Bishops.

  23. JonReinert says:

    Thanks to the Elves, I had a look at some of the stats I was interested in. Interestingly according to the ‘official’ stats Nevada has ony 13 clergy, I was further intrigued by the 35 parishes and missions. I went to their diocesan website to discover how 13 clergy were managing 35 parishes.

    As I expected they have 40 or more ‘local clergy’ who are apparently non stipended and less than 20 seminary trained clergy. I was also interested to discover in one parish they can get through a ‘mass’ with music in under an hour!

    The one remaining mystery is where is their Cathedral? I could find no referance to it on the web site
    Jon R