On Thursday, October 18, 2007, the Rectors and Senior Wardens of seven parishes of the Diocese of Central Florida and two church planters met with Bishop John W. Howe and representatives of the Diocese to discuss the possible scenarios by which all or part of the congregations may disaffiliate from The Episcopal Church.
Each parish will now enter a process of conversation and negotiation with the Diocese based on its particular circumstances. Bishop Howe reiterated his commitment to provide pastoral care both to those who leave and to those who wish to remain.
All parties agreed to enter into these negotiations in good faith using Biblical principles in an effort to avoid litigation and scandal to the Church of Christ.
The parishes are:
Cocoa, Gloria Dei Church
The Reverend Paul Young, Rector
Frank Travassos, Senior Warden
Crystal River, St. Anne’s Church
The Reverend Kevin Holsapple, Rector
Victor Hernandez, Senior Warden
Maitland, Church of the Good Shepherd
The Reverend John P. Nyhan, Rector
George C. Madill, Senior Warden
Mount Dora, St. Edward’s Church
The Reverend Woodleigh Volland, Rector
Charles Cronebaugh, Senior Warden
Ocala, Grace Church
The Reverend Donald J. Curran, Jr., Rector
Dr. Jim Wilkerson, Senior Warden
Vero Beach, Trinity Church
The Reverend D. Lorne Coyle, Rector
Mrs. Nancy N. Reichardt, Senior Warden
Winter Haven, Holy Cross Church
The Reverend Andrew S. Doan, Rector
Bill Johnson, Senior Warden
The church planters are from:
Lake Nona, St. Philip’s
The Reverend Paul Jagoe, Church Planter
Melinda Tedder, Lay Representative
Poinciana, St. Nicholas
The Reverend Geoffrey Boland, Church Planter
Charles Secord, Lay Representative
Media contacts:
Mr. Joe Thoma, Communications Officer , Diocese of Central Florida
The Reverend Donald Curran, Rector, Grace Church, Ocala
Roughly, based on the national church graphs:
Cocoa, Gloria Dei $300K 280 memb 120 ASA
Crystal River, St. Anne’s 240K 360 170
Maitland, Good Shepherd 275K 410 180
Mount Dora, St. Edward’s 350K 290 200
Ocala, Grace 900K 1270 420
Vero Beach, Trinity 1,000K 820 590
Winter Haven, Holy Cross 180K 190 120
Lake Nona, St. Philip’s
Poinciana, St. Nicholas
Total members 18,000 (12%) ASA 3620 (10%)
May these 9 (counting the plants) be blessed, and may their tribe increase!!!! Seems like Matthew 3:12 is happening. WOW x9!
I remember reading that it was reported to the Pope that there was a minor dispute among German monks. Could this be some of the same?
The Gordian wrote:
Repeat after me: This is a TINY number. Everything is dandy. nothing to see here. This is a TINY number ….
Apologies for the double posting of this.
Tom R, I think your math is off???? (Though your percentages look about right.) Where are you getting 18,000 members???
According to 2005 RedBook statistics:
Central FL Membership = 35,555
Central FL ASA = 15,654
By my estimate the ASA of these parishes is somewhere in the 1800 – 1900 range, so we are talking roughly 12% of diocesan ASA.
Bets on DBB’s opinion on this?
Based on ASA the dioceses would literally be more than decimated (i.e. 10% loss). I think it can be called a tithe. Let them go in peace, Bishop.
I met Don Curran at GC ’03. what a faithful, wonderful guy. Lorn Coyle was as well. We need to all be praying for God’s hand in this time. It is awful to think about millions of dollars spent in law suits.
Based on recent statements, this is hard not to see as a repeat of what happened in Virginia with Bp. Lee.
Will Bp. Howe adhere to any agreements he makes with the churches that want to leave? Will he make agreements, and then succumb to pressure from 815 to break them? If they cannot come to an agreement, it really seems like they will not be able to avoid litigation and scandal to the Church of Christ.
Every time a parish leaves, we keep hearing “well, that’s it… that’s all the ‘dissenters’ and there won’t be any more leaving.”
Oops. Wasn’t true two years ago. Still isn’t.
samh, indeed. This isn’t even probably an exhaustive list for Central Florida. I certainly know of other concerned parishes/clergy in Central FL who could join such a list in the future.
Prayers needed for this negotiation process in Central FL. Given how +Schori reacted to the St. Clements negotiation in the Diocese of Rio Grande, I greatly fear that +Howe will be pressured not to allow negotiation for property. As one who had high expectations for the Virginia process 2 years ago, it’s hard now having been so badly burned before to be confident about this. But God is still sovereign, and +Howe has been a Godly shepherd. May he prove so in this matter as well.
The number I heard from a diocese member was that 17 to 20 parishes are expected to leave.
I would hope that Bp Howe follows the example of Bp Steenson: deal graciously with the outgoing parishes and then retire before the inhibitions start flying. Most likely lawyer Howe will not let this happen.
[i] The Bishop of Central Florida is not a lawyer. Perhaps you are speaking about Bishop Howard, Bishop of Florida, the diocese located in the north of Florida. [/i]
-Elf Lady
The numbers are interesting, but there is a variable as yet impossible to know: how many in those congregations do wish to remain in the Episcopal Church. Without presuming how corporate entities may move, it seems more likely that these congregations will divide in the process.
It is possible for a diocese and congregation to negotiate in good faith: I live and work close to Christ Church, Overland Park, Kansas. One can only hope that it can also be possible in this case.
Does anyone know where these congregations intend to go?
Yet another large rush for the exits. I am sure 815 will assure its own that its just a tiny small group of malcontents. I bet the HOB server has lit up.
Seitz-ACI,
I would assume somewhere outside of the Episcopal church.
Tragically, this is what we all knew would happen if discipline did not occur within the Anglican Communion.
Would have been nice had Rowan Williams prosecuted Dar, but he did not choose to do so.
The seven parishes follow a familiar pattern. They all have comfortable plate & pledge levels (none under $100,000) and a few have some real “bucks”. So, if they can’t buy (again) the property, they could just walk away and build again, leaving the bishop with hollow remnants. Again, the small parishes will stay and die a slow death. Kyrie eleison. Statmann
I was curious where these churches were headed — obviously outside TEC — so as better to understand what options churches believe they are exercising, and what is on offer.
As for adjudication — unless something has happened that I am unaware of, individual bishops are people queried in TEC and the Primates are being consulted. But that is not the topic of the thread and I was only asking where churches in CFL were intending to go.
should read: ‘are being queried…’
John is letting the congregations share the same worship space indefinitely.
Might ABp Drexel-Gomez get involved in the negotiations? He has credibility on both sides.
#14 I was serving in Central Florida when the vote to affiliate with the Network came before convention. A full third of the delegates (both lay and clergy, including me) voted against it. My guess is that this is a pretty typical breakdown of the percentages in those congregations that would wish to stay (enough to warrant them continuing as a parish.)
Hi Seitz-ACI,
Thanks for clarifying. I’d guess they would go where the parishes in the Diocese of Virginia went — some to Uganda, some to Kenya, some to CANA, and so on. It seems as if that was enough for the Virginia parishes, and it appears that it will be for the Central Florida parishes.
23# that is just wrong thinking. Throughout the country, parishes tend to be of like mind and usually of the same mind as the rector (or the rector is of the same mind as the parish). Thus, parishes tend to be rather uniformly liberal, moderate or conservative. Like attracts like. So if we can assert there is a 1/3 liberal voice in the diocese from your report of the vote of network-ness, I imagine there is clumping into some liberal parishes with many conservative parishes. The parishes that vote for telling the TEC to run off the cliff without them will have an overwhelming majority.
#25 What is “wrong thinking” is that Gomez has any credibility beyond the select few of the “like minded.” On the contrary, every church I’ve served, from Kansas City to Florida to Indiana has been typically Anglican in the diversity of the congregation’s make-up. The church I serve at the moment has an ASA of 105-110, but has those who are very active, very faithful, and very (sometimes vocally) conservative, but have no intention of leaving or aligning with schismatic elements of our church because they are appalled at the schismatic antics. We also have a number of unapologetic self-described liberals, at least one gay member that I know for sure (and I guess are at least a couple more), and a couple who has a daughter who is an Episcopal priest in a partnered relationship who asked about our church sponsoring a local organization regarding inclusiveness. All of us are quite clear that unity is not found in political (sacred or secular) agreement, but in agreement on who our Lord is and who we are, by virtue of baptism, in our Lord, and thus continue to accept our Lord’s invitation to come to his table in that unity.
The point being, this is far more typical of churches “throughout the country” than the monochrome, self-absorbed parishes that you describe. Having served in Central Florida for seven years, I know most of the rectors of those churches. I know from direct experience, having spoken at various times to people from each of them, that there most certainly is NOT the kind of agreement throughout the congregation that you assert. No one can know for sure unless a vote of the entire congregation is taken, but because of my experience there, I stick with my original percentage of about a third, enough for them to remain a viable congregation in their church.
Makersmarc, that is really helpful to explain the situation in Central Florida. Taking your remarks with the remarks of another insider who felt that 17 congregations would leave, the complexity of the dilemma facing Central Florida is well illustrated.
26. Makersmarc, you may be right, but you may be wrong. There are people in any group who are willing to just go along with the flow, don’t stir up trouble…move along.
We think you are obviously discounting New Covenant – where a viable congregation was not able to be raised out of the “remnant” after a year. We don’t have figures on St. John’s in Melbourne – the ones that were up shortly from TEC that did not reflect that 2/3rds (or more) left to form Prince of Peace. Whether that is a viable congregation is unknown to us.
Also unknown is how many are sitting in congregations ready for a place to go – and they are out there. And also unknown is how many left in the congregations who are unaware either by circumstance or choice who will be looking for a new home when it becomes clear to them when TEC’s direction impinges on their own “comfort” zone. And still further unknown is how many are out in the cold waiting for someone to turn the light on in a place they would feel safe in (our parents among them). These questions are not limited to Central Florida, but nationally – even globally.
What remains a question is why you or other reasppraisers insist on your “inclusiveness” while excluding care for those who are in disagreement with you.
If the majority is so convinced of its position, and our “tiny” minority is not a threat, then why not have a vote of every individual member and see just where the true majority lies. Have the votes mailed to a truly independent third party. Hey, (sorry, Sarah) why not have a ballot that is carbonless, include two envelopes and send one copy of the ballot in each envelope to two indedepenent counters to verify that the count is accurate. Only identifying mark is that of the parish/mission. That would take the manipulation out of it. Cost – would have to be a whole lot less than all of the litigation.
Then, the Christian thing to do would be to allow a split that reflects that – without litigation and threats. The reappraisers want to have a church where they re-write Scripture to exclude verses they don’t like and include ones they do – or feel the spirit is leading them a different direction: go for it. If God really likes it, He will bless it. The reasserters want to keep the Bible as is: go for it. Again, if God really likes it, He will bless it. But let the decision be God’s. The only reason not to do it this way is property and the reappraiser desire to silence opposition.
I sat in the CFLAAC meeting. My mouth dropped when I heard Rev. Canon David C. Anderson, President, American Anglican Council
say something we L2 believe and have written: That the intent is not just to silence but to eradicate us conservatives/orthodox/reasserters/whatever. If that’s not the case – here’s a way to prove it.
Clarification: I don’t know whether the remnant of St. John’s is viable…Prince of Peace is thriving very well.
#28 Yes, as soon as I posted I thought about both New Covenant and St. John’s. Nearly all of New Covenant left with Bishop Howe making a very gracious arrangement with them (i.e. if not a viable congregation remaining or the potential to grow to that – and, in this case, probably not – then the option to acquire the property is a possibility.) St. John’s, on the other hand, is very much a viable congregation, with right on about 1/3 remaining. The rector there now is quite conservative, but I haven’t ever heard him make any noises about leaving; that’s the last thing those remaining at St. John’s would put up with. None of the other churches in Melbourne (I served at Holy Trinity) have any inclination to affiliate with the Network or Common Cause, much less leave. After 2003, Holy Trinity had all of *maybe* one percent leave. The rest are more conservative than liberal (by far), though there are both elements, but that church of well over 1000 members is decidedly remaining in the Episcopal Church. Again, given the diocese as a whole, I’d say that New Covenant is the exception, St. John’s the rule.
I’ll leave off with commenting much about the touting of the reasserter party line about inclusiveness and rewriting scripture and all the rest of it. We’ll leave that to Bsp Bennison; and I never said I was going to agree to the request to sponsor the local group, only that I was asked. It doesn’t describe me or Holy Trinty or my current church or any more than a handful of churches in the Episcopal Church. We’re all still proclaiming by word and example the good news of God in Christ, best we know how.