Aside from further demonstrating the “Covenant” as a process that would take years to actually produce, NOTHING new or helpful here aside from my personal, subjective observation that the summary report has a sanitized scent to it. Look for Archbishop Williams Advent letter reflections to smell of similar disinfectant. Much ado about nothing…
As I stated over at Stand Firm, I long ago washed my hands of Archbishop Williams being any ample sort of leader.
The count being made is one of provinces. Fine that’s a count by national episcopal authority.
However, the national churches vary greatly in both total numbers of members and average Sunay attendance (i.e. those who really care).
So what are the numbers for the 12 churches that agree and the 10 churches that disagree?
Finally, note that the numbers of provinces per category are suffixed at the end of ‘set apart’ lead sentences, except for those who ‘disagree.’ Their numbers are buried within a paragraph. How clever.
I read it ll. And what did I read it for? What instruction? This is repetition only at greater length than the usual. It is unimportant in every sense. LM
Things that stand out for me:
[b] No replies [/b]
– 1/3rd of primates didn’t reply
– 2/3rd of the ACC didn’t reply
Not sure what to read into that? Not enough time to reply? Or does no reply mean they are abstaining? Have some just given up on this process (like Uganda, who decided it was a whitewash attempt, and didn’t participate in the JSC report) ?
[b] Next steps [/b]
Very few next steps suggested compared to the number of responses. (8 at most out of 23 replies). Coupled with recent actions that would seem to suggest that most have given up on this process for resolving the problems and are proceeding with what they think they need to do. (Global South are setting up oversight/ TEC Bishops and CA proceeding with same sex marriage resolutions and property lawsuits).
Overall, this process seems to have failed to achieve reconciliation between the two sides, and the lack of any concrete next steps means its not going any further. But no province has officially left or been excluded from the communion yet, so in that respect the process was a success.
[b] What next? [/b]
Its becoming clear that the reason the Lambeth invites were sent out a year early is that Rowan wanted to see the depth of feeling in the communion. Was this just a few isolated primates making waves, with no real backup from their provinces, or did the issues run deeper? The fact that he asked to know the extent of consultation in his letter means he is probably still not as sure as he needs to be to decide if discipline really is warranted, which is likely to result in major fallout from the liberal wing, or if he can leave the process where it is, with some minor concessions from the TEC and declare victory. The lack of replies and lack of next step recommendations have not made his job any easier.
I think his next steps are to just let the chips fall where they may. There will be no discipline (that would cause an immediate split with the 10 liberal provinces leaving), the conservatives won’t leave as long as they can implement their alternative oversight. And in 50yrs time, either the liberal wing will have died a natural death from the current attrition rate, or the ‘prevailing culture’ will have exported itself to the Global South. So the current unpleasantness will eventually pass. He just needs to keep as much unity as possible until then. The covenant will also die a natural death or be broad enough to include all, as there is too much opposition to it.
AnglicanFirst [#2], you make a valid point about the lack of significance of a count of provinces, i.e., national authority. From what I’ve read, the entire Province of the Southern Cone has roughly as many members as the Diocese of Texas alone, yet the Southern Cone’s view seems to be given equal weight to that of both the entire Episcopal Church and the even-larger Church of Nigeria.
I’m not sure the report would have had much more significance if population or ASA figures had been included, as you suggest. If the truth of a proposition were conclusively determined by the number of its putative adherents, we’d have to become Roman Catholics and confess the infallibility of the pope, etc. (And if it were growth trends that mattered, we’d likely have to join the Mormons — or the Muslims.)
What an utterly pointless exercise this has been. I wonder how Rowan thinks it makes him look? Any normal bloke would have interpreted the complete lack of interest in this as a vote of no confidence in it and in him. And I’ve thought Rowan should resign a long time ago, indeed not even take up the ABC post. Yet now I’m not sure what that would actually achieve. Would his successor, uncompromised and untainted by his manipulations, stand any chance of covering anything from the incredible confusion that now prevails around the Anglican Communion? Lord have mercy on us all. And may the Global South step in urgently and provide the leadership the Communion so desperately needs for the sake of the gospel, even though it will be costly for them and messy for all of us?…..
Aside from further demonstrating the “Covenant” as a process that would take years to actually produce, NOTHING new or helpful here aside from my personal, subjective observation that the summary report has a sanitized scent to it. Look for Archbishop Williams Advent letter reflections to smell of similar disinfectant. Much ado about nothing…
As I stated over at Stand Firm, I long ago washed my hands of Archbishop Williams being any ample sort of leader.
The count being made is one of provinces. Fine that’s a count by national episcopal authority.
However, the national churches vary greatly in both total numbers of members and average Sunay attendance (i.e. those who really care).
So what are the numbers for the 12 churches that agree and the 10 churches that disagree?
Finally, note that the numbers of provinces per category are suffixed at the end of ‘set apart’ lead sentences, except for those who ‘disagree.’ Their numbers are buried within a paragraph. How clever.
I read it ll. And what did I read it for? What instruction? This is repetition only at greater length than the usual. It is unimportant in every sense. LM
Things that stand out for me:
[b] No replies [/b]
– 1/3rd of primates didn’t reply
– 2/3rd of the ACC didn’t reply
Not sure what to read into that? Not enough time to reply? Or does no reply mean they are abstaining? Have some just given up on this process (like Uganda, who decided it was a whitewash attempt, and didn’t participate in the JSC report) ?
[b] Next steps [/b]
Very few next steps suggested compared to the number of responses. (8 at most out of 23 replies). Coupled with recent actions that would seem to suggest that most have given up on this process for resolving the problems and are proceeding with what they think they need to do. (Global South are setting up oversight/ TEC Bishops and CA proceeding with same sex marriage resolutions and property lawsuits).
Overall, this process seems to have failed to achieve reconciliation between the two sides, and the lack of any concrete next steps means its not going any further. But no province has officially left or been excluded from the communion yet, so in that respect the process was a success.
[b] What next? [/b]
Its becoming clear that the reason the Lambeth invites were sent out a year early is that Rowan wanted to see the depth of feeling in the communion. Was this just a few isolated primates making waves, with no real backup from their provinces, or did the issues run deeper? The fact that he asked to know the extent of consultation in his letter means he is probably still not as sure as he needs to be to decide if discipline really is warranted, which is likely to result in major fallout from the liberal wing, or if he can leave the process where it is, with some minor concessions from the TEC and declare victory. The lack of replies and lack of next step recommendations have not made his job any easier.
I think his next steps are to just let the chips fall where they may. There will be no discipline (that would cause an immediate split with the 10 liberal provinces leaving), the conservatives won’t leave as long as they can implement their alternative oversight. And in 50yrs time, either the liberal wing will have died a natural death from the current attrition rate, or the ‘prevailing culture’ will have exported itself to the Global South. So the current unpleasantness will eventually pass. He just needs to keep as much unity as possible until then. The covenant will also die a natural death or be broad enough to include all, as there is too much opposition to it.
AnglicanFirst [#2], you make a valid point about the lack of significance of a count of provinces, i.e., national authority. From what I’ve read, the entire Province of the Southern Cone has roughly as many members as the Diocese of Texas alone, yet the Southern Cone’s view seems to be given equal weight to that of both the entire Episcopal Church and the even-larger Church of Nigeria.
I’m not sure the report would have had much more significance if population or ASA figures had been included, as you suggest. If the truth of a proposition were conclusively determined by the number of its putative adherents, we’d have to become Roman Catholics and confess the infallibility of the pope, etc. (And if it were growth trends that mattered, we’d likely have to join the Mormons — or the Muslims.)
What an utterly pointless exercise this has been. I wonder how Rowan thinks it makes him look? Any normal bloke would have interpreted the complete lack of interest in this as a vote of no confidence in it and in him. And I’ve thought Rowan should resign a long time ago, indeed not even take up the ABC post. Yet now I’m not sure what that would actually achieve. Would his successor, uncompromised and untainted by his manipulations, stand any chance of covering anything from the incredible confusion that now prevails around the Anglican Communion? Lord have mercy on us all. And may the Global South step in urgently and provide the leadership the Communion so desperately needs for the sake of the gospel, even though it will be costly for them and messy for all of us?…..
DC, provincial size arguments are going to be self-defeating for liberals. You might want to think about that shoe size issue.
dwstroudmd [#7], please go back and read the second paragraph of my #5, as you evidently missed it the first time.