On the final exam for an American religion class I taught this spring, I asked my Boston University students to offer Mitt Romney some unsolicited advice on how to talk to the American public about his Mormon faith.
He needs it. In many respects, Mormons have become quintessentially American, yet “gentiles” (as Mormons call the rest of us) remain wary. Evangelicals often view the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as an unchristian “cult,” and many liberals are at least as uncomfortable with the idea of a Mormon president. What to do?
Most of my students told me that the former Massachusetts governor could not sidestep “TMT,” as his 2008 presidential team referred to “That Mormon Thing.” He should discuss his faith in a heartfelt manner. But he should steer clear of its controversial history and unusual beliefs and rituals. What is to be gained from addressing Mormons’ rejection of the Trinity, their baptisms of dead Holocaust victims, or their founder Joseph Smith (who also ran for president)? Romney should emphasize morality instead, my students said, underscoring the convergence of Mormonism and Christianity on “family values.”
Protestants aren’t the only people who view Mormonism as a non-Christian cult. That said I couldn’t care less about Romney’s bizarre religious beliefs. I refuse to vote for him because he is big government crony capitalist warmonger who thinks the government should tell us how to live. I see no philosophical difference between him and Obama.
[blockquote] “In many respects, Mormons have become quintessentially American, yet “gentiles” (as Mormons call the rest of us) remain wary.” [/blockquote]
Hello? Time for a reality check, Mormons. If you call the rest of us ‘gentiles’ then why are you surprised if you are treated as a cult? The one reflects the other.
[blockquote] “He should discuss his faith in a heartfelt manner. But he should steer clear of its controversial history and unusual beliefs and rituals. What is to be gained from addressing Mormons’ rejection of the Trinity, their baptisms of dead Holocaust victims, or their founder Joseph Smith (who also ran for president)?” [/blockquote]
Romney and the Mormons are in a bind: If they discuss their faith at all, these things are bound to come up. So probably what they are doing is the best way – just steer clear of the subject; accept that your faith is not a proper subject for the table.
That’s OK Ad Orientum. Just don’t vote for the Democratic Party nominees. And if you can identify a candidate you can support please let us know. As a fiscal conservative and social moderate I think Governor Romney would be a better president than the incumbent. Your Mileage May Vary.
Re #3
TomRightmyer,
[blockquote] And if you can identify a candidate you can support please let us know.[/blockquote]
Ron Paul.
Ron Paul/Snowballs/Hell/Presidency
I wish it could be so, I really do. And I supported Rick Santorum, hoping he could be a bridge to a Rand Paul perhaps. But it isn’t to be right now.
I hate to be blunt, but to say there is no philosophical difference [or pick any other difference you want] between Romney and Obama is just plain petulant foolishness. There may not be the difference you’d like [same here brother], but there most certainly is a difference. And for all those who claim there isn’t, I suggest taking a good hard look at the last three years and project out four more with nothing, absolutely nothing. to stop the whole thing from going over the hard-marxist cliff.
So where are the philosophical differences? I haven’t found any. Back in 2008 I was told by liberal friends that if I voted for McCain (which I did) that we would end up with George Bush’s 3rd term as president. Well, it pains me to admit it, but they were right.
Just yelling about how bad Obama is doesn’t cut any ice with me. Romney could easily be just as bad, maybe even worse given his bombastic statements on foreign affairs. If I were inclined to take him at his word, which I don’t because I think he is a pathological liar who will say ANYTHING to anyone if he thinks it will get their vote, we would already be at war with Iran if he were president.
Asking me to vote for Romney is asking me to Vote for George Bush’s 4th term. That I will not do.
So, if the public gets to examine Romney’s Mormonism, does it also get to examine the church Obama attended for twenty years and its teachings?
#7 Katherine, Absolutely not! That would be racist! LOL! Truthfully, I think we should.
Addressing Romney’s “Mormon Thing” is quite simple: Convert to Christianity. That’s one area where flip-flopping is a virtue. It will never happen, of course, and even if it did, there would be many substantive issues that would make it morally challenging to vote Romney. Support Ron Paul. Choose constitutional and democratic ideals over political gamesmanship. Let’s be a beacon of idealism for the world again.
#7 & 8, I think you should look into that church. I suspect what you would find is a fairly traditional black evangelical congregation, whose minister largely lectures on traditional Christian topics, but who occasionally lets the anger he built up from having grown up in an era when white people lynched black people and shot them with water hoses for trying to get a decent education for their children. When he does he says stupid hateful things about white people (but certainly no more hateful than the things some white people have said about him and other minorities involved in the civil rights movement) and about this country for waiting so long to defend the rights of minorities.
I find it odd you would compare him to a bishop in a religion devoted to convincing Christians to abandon the teachings of Jesus Christ and Orthodox Christianity for the teachings of a 19th Century power hungry bigamist and the worship of false gods.
How strange that all someone has to do is change their past position to say they now embrace a pro-life/low taxes philosophy and suddenly Orthodox Christians who have railed against the heresies of TEC and the evils of its leadership are willing to embrace a man who has devoted his entire life to corrupting Christians and leading them away from the path to salvation.
Re # 10
Mitchell
As the only ‘Orthodox’ Christian who has posted on this thread I am not following you at all, unless perhaps you meant ‘orthodox.’
You are correct. Like Catholic and catholic, my spell checker does not work that way and I don’t take the time to proof that well. Perhaps I should say conservative Christians.
[i]suddenly Orthodox Christians who have railed against the heresies of TEC …….are willing to embrace a man who has devoted his entire life to corrupting Christians [/i]
Wherever did you figure out such a fairy tale? Just like A.O’s thesis that there is NO difference between Obama and Romney, you seek to make the simple complicated and the complicated inscrutible.
Politics is a dirty business; always has been, probably always will be. In one respect AO is correct about the lack of differences: I would invite neither Obama or Romney over to my house for dinner. To do so would defile my home. That said however, one of them will with 100% certainty work for the creation of a totalitarian state devoid of freedom, liberty, and dedicated to the good of the collective.
The other candidate, raised in America, having become a success via the capitalistic economic model of America, will [imperfectly] try to restore our path in that direction. And for all the rocks that can be thrown at the Church of the LDS, their contemporary life is one of wholesomeness, respect for country, the sanctity of life, and for family. None of these are embraced by the other candidate.
I am guessing that no matter who wins this election, most of the bloggers on this thread will roughly live out their life in some form of comfort and security [barring economic collapse, military overthrow, or you contract a fatal disease which Obamacare won’t support treatment on]. But we are not who this fight is about; those of us who have children and grandchildren will hopefully think about the country they will inherit and try to give them the best shot of living in the America created by our founders. Not one designed by Karl Marx.
[blockquote]Wherever did you figure out such a fairy tale? [/blockquote]
It is no fairy tale. Since his early days Romney has been a missionary for the Mormon religion. He has also served as a Bishop for the Mormon religion. Mormons reach out to Christians and attempt to convert them to Mormonism. Romney has actively participated in that process for his entire life. What do you think his mission trip to France was all about?
The souls of those who follow the Mormon religion are in mortal danger. The same as those who follow Islam or Wicca. Those who seek to convert Christians to another religion and lead them from the path to salvation do not serve the cause of Christ; and Christians who are unwilling to speak this truth because of some temporal concern about their taxes are active participants in that process.
While I reject your arguments this nation is in danger of becoming a Marxist state it has nothing to do with my point. The charge of Christians is to light the path to salvation. Christ transcends nations and political philosophies. Mormonism is a pagan religion which Romney has expended significant time, energy and money expanding; and every Christian he has converted to that religion is in danger of paying the ultimate price.
[blockquote]”Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the Church of the Lamb of God and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of God belongeth to that great church; which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.” (The Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)
“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (Documentary History of the Church, Introduction, xl)
“I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong…that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight” (Joseph Smith History 1:19).
“…the God whom the ‘Christians’ worship is a being of their own creation…” (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)
“The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God.” (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)
“…orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian.” (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)[/blockquote]
These are the things Romney believes and the things his religion teaches those they convert.
Okay, Mitchell: I know something of Christianity and a little about Mormonism. My point is/was; the election is for President of the United States, not for Pope.
[i]…..I reject your arguments this nation is in danger of becoming a Marxist state [/i]
That’s fine, many fellow citizens of this country also do that. But when we look at who surrounded Obama as he grew up, who surrounds him now, his own words at transforming the country, the actions to date of his administration, his admitted criminal behavior [abusing hard drugs], his totally fictional life story; compared to the Romney’s who have lived what we would in earlier times admire as the “American success story”……..we have a clear, differentiated choice of candidates to cast a vote for. And sitting on your hands come election day won’t be helpful to those who will follow us.
Let’s just take one single policy position that we know full well this administration will pursue with a vengence if the “O” is re-elected: and that is the 2nd Amendment. Don’t care? Then read history: the list of nations who abolished the right to keep and bear arms and then went hard left totalitarian with tragic losses of life is well known and documented. If you sit on your hands, you want that on your conscience?
#15 I am not going to feed into your paranoid arguments about some hidden agenda to take every one’s guns. Elevating a Mormon to the Presidency of the United States is a mistake. It is the fulfillment of the dream of Joseph Smith. It will add unprecedented legitimacy to an expanding Pagan religion. It will impose upon Mormonism a stamp of approval by Christian America, and add credibility to their claim to be Christians.
Mormonism is a stealth religion. They use the name of Jesus Christ to spread their beliefs and convert Christians, but they are not Christians.
When my son was in 10th grade, he was dating a nice young lady. One day we were talking and she told me her mother was Catholic but that her father was Mormon. I was some what amazed but not alarmed. One day my son came home from a date and told me she had been invited him to attend her Church. I thought he was talking about the local Catholic church. He was not. Soon he was bringing home copies of the Book of Mormon, and talking about Indians being the lost tribes of Israel. He had developed a huge fascination with this religion, and I had one heck of a time putting a stop to his interaction with this family.
Can you imagine my concern? It is very difficult to deal with a teen boy in a way that does not push him in the exact opposite of the way you want him to go. Can you imagine how much more difficult my argument would have been had George Bush been a Mormon. I would have been calling the President of the United State evil.