Is Mormonism Christian?” is a very important question. The answer is equally important and simple. No. Mormonism is not Christian.
If you are a Mormon, please realize that CARM is not trying to attack you, your character, or the sincerity of your belief. If you are a non-Mormon looking into Mormonism, or if you are a Christian who is simply researching Mormonism, then this paper should be of help to you.
The reason Mormonism is not Christian is because it denies one or more of the essential doctrines of Christianity. Of the essential doctrines (that there is only one God, Jesus is God in flesh, forgiveness of sins is by grace alone, and Jesus rose from the dead physically, the gospel being the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus), Mormonism denies three of them: how many gods there are, the person of Jesus, and His work of salvation.
Mormonism teaches that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones (D. & C. 130:22) and that Jesus is a creation. It teaches that he was begotten in heaven as one of God’s spirit children (See the Book, Jesus the Christ, by James Talmage, p. 8). This is in strict contrast to the biblical teaching that he is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14), eternal (John 1:1, 2, 15), uncreated, yet born on earth (Col. 1:15), and the creator all (John 1:3; Col. 1;16-17). Jesus cannot be both created and not created at the same time. Though Mormonism teaches that Jesus is god in flesh, it teaches that he is “a” god in flesh, one of three gods that comprise the office of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, by Talmage, pp. 35-40). These three gods are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. This is in direct contradiction of the biblical doctrine that there is only one God (Isaiah 44:6,8; 45:5). See Trinity for a correct discussion of what the Trinity is.
Because Mormonism denies the biblical truth of who God is, who Jesus is, how forgiveness of sins is attained, and what the gospel is, the Mormon is not Christian — in spite of all his claims that he is.
Not a fan of CARM.
#1 Can you say why please
It’s not the post I’m not a fan of – just the general Calvinist theology and anti-Catholicism on the site.
Whether one likes him or not, I think he’s right.
Whether you like CARM or not, the content here is good. There are a lot of folk–Mormon and Christian–who will be surprised to learn that Mormons are NOT Christian. It’s just like those who say Muslims pray to the same god as Christians do. NOT!
You won’t believe this – the doorbell just rang – two young men were at the door…white short sleeve shirts and black ties wanting to talk about the Restoration.
I decided long ago that I was not going to appoint myself an arbiter, even in my own mind, of who is really a Christian and who isn’t. If someone wants to call themselves a Christian, I’ll call them one. I may disagree with them on things I think are fundamental to Christianity, or I may be strongly of the opinion that they are not living a life I think Christians ought to lead… but I’m not going to argue about the name.
The flip side of that is that I try to avoid arguing with people who decide that I’m not a Christian — which includes many of the commenters on this site. Of all the futile debates clustered around the current schism-in-progress, that’s surely one of the most futile.
As for Mr. Romney — surely the question of whether he’s a Christian or not is relevant only to those people who (a) want to vote for him over any other candidate, but (b) refuse on principle to vote for anyone who isn’t Christian? Are there really that many people inhabiting this particular intersection of sets?
Taking their test at http://www.carm.org/doctrine.htm, I found that one doesn’t have to be a trinitarian, or believe in the virgin birth to be a Christian. Very interesting.
Notice also that this group posits that while there are Christians within the Catholic Church, no Catholic who believes official Catholic Church teachings is a Christian. Also an essay from this group states that “as a whole” the Catholic Church and its followers must be evangelized to make them into Christians.
Certainly there are groups discussing whether Mormonism falls inside the Christian religion that don’t also include some very anti-Catholic essays.
Pax.
#8 Virgil:
However, according to that same quiz, while the Virgin Birth may be optional believing in evolution is forbidden.
In the spirit of my #7, these would be Christians with whom I disagree on some pretty serious fundamentals.
What I noticed about the article that seemed very interesting to me was the fact that if one holds an extreme view of sola scriptura, not the Calvinist or Lutheran manifestations of this doctrine, then one might conclude that such doctrines as the trinity, the virgin birth, and even evolution (it’s not mentioned in the three required beliefs) are not necessary to be a Christian.
From an Anglican vantage, we believe that scripture teaches all things necessary for salvation. Would this mean that a belief in the trinity, the virgin birth, etc. are not necessary for salvation?
It would seem that we need tradition to work out our doctrinal positions, but that beliefs in such traditions are optional and not necessary for our salvation, except for the ones mentioned as necessary in scripture.
Of course, one might also try and deduce from the the three essentials other essentials. That would be an interesting venture.
The virgin birth IS scriptural, Virg.
see The Gospel of Luke.
#12…libraryjim…I’m not saying the the virgin birth (or conception) is not in scripture. What I’m saying is that CARM doesn’t appear (although there are some ambiguities in their approach) to make it essential to be a Christian. From an Anglican perspective, it is doctrinal, but is belief in such, necessary for salvation?
The essential point here, that Mormons do not believe in one god, is true, and enough to make them not Christian. When evaluating whether a sect is Christian, I generally take the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds and compare to their faith statements (being generous on the one, holy, apostolic and catholic church). Mormons fail this test. In fact, frsteve, I have a printed copy of these creeds near my door, ready to give to the nice Mormons or JWs when they stop by. I hand them the paper and say politely that if their beliefs are not the ones in these creeds, then they have misunderstood the Bible.
Anti-Mormon materials tend to be written by former Mormons and/or by strict evangelicals, of the independent type, not Anglican. These materials often contain anti-Catholic statements and are also harsh on some non-Catholics (like Anglicans!). You have to be careful reading these sites.
[blockquote] Notice also that this group posits that while there are Christians within the Catholic Church, no Catholic who believes official Catholic Church teachings is a Christian. Also an essay from this group states that “as a whole†the Catholic Church and its followers must be evangelized to make them into Christians. [/blockquote]
Yes, this was the whole point of the Reformation. It wasn’t just a big misunderstanding. Perhaps that’s why the Roman Catholic Church infallibly anathematized everything I believe at the Council of Trent. It wasn’t too long ago that the average Roman Catholic believed he had to evangelize me – because the Magisterium infallibly taught just that. Consistent RCs still believe that. Perhaps I should call them “anti-Protestant” for being consistent with church teaching.
carl
Carl, there’s a rather large difference here: The Catholic Church does not teach that non-Catholic = non-Christian.
[blockquote] [T]here’s a rather large difference here: The Catholic Church does not teach that non-Catholic = non-Christian. [/blockquote]
Well, except for that infallible Council of Trent which consists of a long list of statements to the effect “If anyone says let him be anathema.” They are each a direct parallel to Paul’s statement in Galatians. Trent clearly (and infallibly) states that the Reformation propagated a false gospel. It’s hard to imagine a more direct declaration that ‘non-Catholic = non-Christian’. Has the RCC repudiated these infallible dogmatic statements?
carl
#7 – excellent post! I think some folks here have skipped over your wise comments.
[b]Everything[/b] you believe? I think you meant to say everything you believe that they DON’T, which is a little bit “dog bites man”, innit?
I think this article makes it clear why Mormons are not Christians.
Too many people equate being “Christian” with being a “nice person”. So that saying that someone is “not Christian” means that that person is not nice, or worthy of respect, or whatever insult you may want to make if you are using the term “Christian” to mean a good person.
Even so, I would disagree that anyone who wishes to call themselves “Christian” should be regarded as such. Adherence to the creeds should be a minimum requirement.
#19 [blockquote] Everything you believe? I think you meant to say everything you believe that they DON’T, which is a little bit “dog bites manâ€, innit? [/blockquote]
OK, I might admit to a small, miniscule, barely visible, hardly even noticable amount of hyperbole. But in truth, I thought it was clear from the context that “everything” referred to “everything I believed regarding the contested issues of the Reformation.” Still my larger point stands uncontested. It is the norm for Catholic and Protestant to view each other as fit subjects for evangelism. And Catholics least of all should express “Shock! SHOCK!” at the idea.
carl
To add to the problems that I have with the CARM folks, they do not believe that baptism is a necessary sacrament. I have issues with that and they use it in their argument against Mormonism (see Mormon Definition of Words). One must put a strong mental filter on when reading the CARM site.
I think it is good that Mr. Romney has brought this to the forefront even though I don’t think this was his intention in the way it is playing out here.
#17, just because someone’s a heretic does not, in itself, make them non-Christian. It just makes them a heretical Christian. The question is, who gets to decide what constitutes heresy.
Wow, the church I just left resembles this article. Let’s see….our priest did not believe in the holy mysteries, our Apostle’s creed, definately distorted biblical teachings, and yes I would say that she believed that the addition of good works was necessary for salvation, only she called it social justice.
No, this was not a Mormon church. This was an episcopal church. No room for me to judge. I currently live in a mormon community (due to husband’s job assignment) and a very liberal episcopal diocese run by an iron fisted liberal bishop. My extended family is far away and if it weren’t for the mormons we would be alone this Christmas. Yes, after we were treated so terribly at our local church and finally had to leave it is our mormon friends who have invited us to join them for their family night devotions, church activities, and a Christmas Eve gathering. They were even gracious enough to appear interested in some of our beliefs and traditions. They asked if we could bring our advent wreath tonight during THEIR family devotion night and explain the meaning and significance of it.
Very humbling indeed. I’m embarrassed of my church and embarrassed to admit the problems going on in it and I’m embarrassed by the comments from people outside of my denomination and certainly will have nothing to say or debate or discuss about their faith. We are just happy to be included. As for the Episcopal church, well this cradle episcopalian will NEVER step foot into another episcopal church again, not after the way we were treated.
Re 17
Car,
I think you are confused. Heretics are not necessarily non-Christians. Note that the canons of The Church permit reception (by oikonomia) of heretics via Chrismation in some cases. This would not be possible if they were not Christian since their baptisms would be not only void of grace but irreparably so. Are Protestants heretics? Yes, to varying degrees. (So are Roman Catholics.) But anyone I would call a Protestant I would also recognize as a Christian.
Mormons are neither.
Re 25 above
Car should be “Carl.” Please forgive the typo.
nochurchhome, yes, Mormons are often really nice people. Try to witness to them, as gently as you can, respecting them as people. But do be careful, if you’ve got children, to see that they don’t get indoctrinated. My problem with the LDS is that, while it’s wonderful that they are often so nice, no souls are saved by going through Mormon ordinances at the temples.
Carm’s support of things unbiblical (sola scriptura for one) eliminates it from being taken seriously, imo.