The Rev. John Riebe, rector of All Saints Episcopal Church in southwest Bakersfield, outlined what he sees are two significant differences of opinion between the U.S. Episcopal Church and the Worldwide Anglican Communion regarding “fundamental and foundational principles” of Christianity.
He said these differences concern “the person of Jesus Christ” and “the role of the authority of Holy Scripture.”
“Katharine Jefferts Schori’s public statements that are on record say that she does not agree that Jesus is the unique savior for all people,” Riebe said. “She believes that other faiths are equally valid, and clearly, in the New Testament, Jesus is very clear that he is the way, the truth and the life and the only way to God the Father and to salvation.
“Most of the Anglican community would disagree with her statements,” he said.
“On the role of Holy Scripture,” Riebe said, “she indicates that it may be informative and very important, and they (many clergy and bishops in the Episcopal Church) might even refer to it as the Word of God in public references, but they don’t believe it has authority.”
Some examples, he said, include questioning whether Jesus performed miracles or whether he resurrected from the dead.
“Traditional Christianity has continued to believe that the resurrection was real, that Jesus is the Son of God and that he atoned for our sins,” he said.
I send my prayers and encouragement to the saints at Diocese of SJ, and it is particularly great to read Fr. Riebe’s comments. I know he was called to help lead this courageous action. God bless you Fr. John!
I think it is a fundamental misunderstanding of Anglicanism to suggest that what one person believes is what TEC believes. What TEC believes is contained in the BCP, from which we virtually all worship at least every week. The BCP is clear about the nature and meaning of Christ. Even if I were to agree that the comments of KJS+ constitute heresy, I’d say “so what?” Do you think the Roman Catholics would agree that schism is OK if one pope has heretical opinions?
“What TEC believes is contained in the BCP, from which we virtually all worship at least every week. ”
I disagree. What TEC is [i]supposed to[/i] believe is reflected (not contained; only scripture “contains” the faith) in the BCP. The majority of the leadership, lay and clerical do not believe that, and this majority has seized control of the church to make sure that the dictates of the BCP and Scripture are not adhered to. If the Pope and a majority of his cardinals, bishops and priests were heretics, you can rest assued that a huge proportion of Roman Catholics would be thinking about schism.
#3: Gosh, Mr Rabbit, your opening comments made so much sense–that the Bible, not the BCP “contains” all things necessary for salvation and that the BCP merely reflects those contents. However, then you went and spoiled it with an incredibly outlandish claim, namely that the majority of leaders, clerical and lay, inTEC do not believe this. Grnated, I am not in the leadershiop of TEC although I have some leadership roles in the diocese and parish. Most of the clergy I know and have met in the almost 30 years I have been a priest do indeed believe that the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the Word of God and contain all things necessary for salvation. While I grant you that a significant percentage of those in the leadership of TEC at national levels (particularly the Executive Council which has much more power than the PB could ever dream of!) does not appear to believe this, I hardly think it is the majority of leaders in the Church. Then again, I may stand corrected because obviously you must know all of them.
Will B, you bring up a valid point. It’s difficult to know exactly the percentage of people who who believe this or that, and I suppose that goes for clergy as well. Unfortunately, the only benchmark we have for this, nationally, is the General Convention, in which delegates are not encouraged to vote the beliefs of their constituency. But, if the GC is somehow representative of the “mind” of this denomination, then I suppose Mr. Rabbit might have an argument, as well. How we find middle ground on this has confounded me for quite some time.
Will B., thanks for throwing some cold water on this hot-headed rhetoric. Would some one give me a link to a clear statement from the PB that clearly indicates her Christology and position on Scripture, and not just statements taken out of context, interpreted to mean something other, and then the intepretations are spread around as the truth of her position?
As a lay person who has served on a national committee and knows some of the leaders of the national church, I think these persons recite the Nicene Creed with sincerity. The problem is that apparently no one at that level has come up with a way to answer these outlandish claims without stirring things up more. We know that when hostile critics are at work, nothing one says will escape parsing and turning around to mean just the opposite. What we are hearing in our nation’s polarizing political discourse is precisely what is also going on in the Church.
Will B., thank you for calling me to task. I in fact do not know what the “majority” of leaders believe. What I should have written (and what I believe) is that the leaders who no longer respect the authority of Scripture and hold the uniqueness of Christ as the way to salvation, have siezed control of TEC. GC after GC and HOB meeting after HOB meeting have shown that those who uphold Biblical authority and the Uniqueness of Christ are unable to stand in the way of these leaders.
Bob from Boone, I seem to remember someone (I thought it was Bob from Boone) asking for the same question about proof. At the least, you have been around here long enough to see this, or suffer from memory lapse.
I don’t have the links, but I know the evidence and the links are accessible on T19 and SF. The PB has asserted that Jesus is “a way” or “way”, and refuses to quote the authority of scripture, which clearly says that Jesus is “THE” way.
No. 3 – Brer Rabbit – Isn’t it more accurate to say that Scripture contains all that is necessary for salvation, while the Creed expresses all that is necessary to believe succinctly? The “necessary” doctrine of the Trinity is not expressed in the Bible, but is drawn from the life of the Church and validated by the Gospel.
Very good, rob. My shorthand description lacked precision.
Will B., [url=http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2007/12/10/Anne-Coletta-interviews-Eric-Sohlgren-Attorney]here is a link[/url] to someone better informed than myself who characterizes “most of the leadership of the diocese [of Los Angeles] and the national church.” They were found lacking, in this view, on beliefs about the identity of Christ and the authority of Scripture. You, of course, will have to make up your own mind based on the evidence you have seen.
Br’er Rabbit says, ‘here is a link to someone better informed than myself who characterizes “most of the leadership of the diocese [of Los Angeles] and the national church.‒
Br’er rabbit and I disagree on lots of things, but even I am confident he’s not in favor of tearing the church apart simply on the say so of the lead attorney in a court case. My experience of TEC is more like Will B’s — the overwhelming majority of people I know have no problem with the traditional teaching on the nature of Christ, though they are not so eager as some to call the PB’s carefully nuanced comments “heresy”, whether they agree with them or not. In any case, every week I publicly say things like “He stretched out his arms upon the cross, and offered himself, in obedience to your will, a perfect sacrifice for the whole world,” as do virtually all other episcopal parish priests. That’s the faith statement of TEC, whatever this or that priest or bishop may say.
MarkP, I take your comments to heart, and am encouraged by them.
What discourages me is the priests who do not believe in (or redefine) e.g. the Nicene Creed, and the Seminary professors who advise postulants how to proceed despite their disbelief. I was confronted in 1960 by a young priest who did not believe in the Virgin Birth, despite saying it every Sunday or more. TEC is now controlled by men like him, grown older.
(And by the way, the statement of the attorney/churchmember in the linked video was not simply his own, but that of a parish which had been led for many years by David Anderson. It is indeed wise to take the opinions coming from such an ardent activist with a measure of caution,)
The Great Comisson to the Church is found in Matthew 28:19.
” Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER,and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST.” Sounds like a named Trinity to me. The Old Testament (Genesis 1:1-2) speaks of the creation of earth by God and the Spirit assisting. In several parts of the OT we find references to a Son of Man or like phrases.
Br’er Rabbit said, “I take your comments to heart, and am encouraged by them.”
Thanks for your irenic response! It saddens me that people like you and me, who I suspect could meet and talk as mutual friends of Jesus under the right circumstances, will find that harder and harder as this schism progresses, if only because we will meet less and less frequently. I really do believe in St. Paul’s Body language, that the hand and foot have no business saying they have no need of each other, and that you and I will both be poorer for this separation, no matter how deep are our disagreements on, say, the interpretation of scripture.