I have to interrupt my planned sequence of posts to deal with recent events. They have become too outrageous to ignore.
Let us begin to catalog here the manifold abuses by Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori of the Constitution and Canons of The Episcopal Church. For having occupied her office for such a short time, it is truly a remarkable record—and this post will deal with her violations in just one case!
[i] From the elves: This thread was thrown off topic and a number of comments have been deleted. [/i]
http://www.pwcweb.com/ecw/tec_to_nigeria.html
It seems clear she forced ‘moderates’ like the diocese of Virginia to break negotiations and go to court. We have to give her credit for being fair in that she will bully her friends as well as those who oppose her.
http://www.pwcweb.com/ecw/tec_to_nigeria.html
So what are the other members of the HOB going to do about it? If they just let it slide then aren’t they culpable in this outrage a bit, too?
And what is anyone going to do about? Like Bill Clinton abusing woman, Schori will continue to abuse the canons because she can.
Carol R.: It really depends. So long as she gets away with it, the HoB will do nothing. On the other hand, if TEC loses the Virginia and California lawsuits, expect the HoB to be subject to a bitter struggle between the KJS led liberal extremists versus the liberal institutionalists.
Unless Living Church is doing April’s Fools stories, this is just beautiful: [url=http://www.livingchurch.org/news/news-updates/2008/4/1/bishop-cox-demands-correction-of-deposition-announcement] Bishop Cox Demands Correction of Deposition Announcement[/url]
I would like to know what action the average person in the pew and the average parish priest can do about “her” behavior? Just sit there and stew or is there some legal recourse we can begin to take to have her brought under control? In short, are we stuck with [KJS] or can we tell her to take a hike?
[i]edited[/i]
[blockquote] This is a sorry, sorry chronicle of abuse and arrogance, probably not exceeded at any time in the history of the Episcopal Church since the days of Archbishop Laud. All who played any part in it, as well as those who are urging that the result be left to stand as is, warts and all, are covered in a shame that ought to be intolerable for an ordinary mortal, let alone one who has been consecrated to holy orders. [/blockquote]
Those in positions of ecclesiastical power in TEC ought to note since the PB will not relent, [b] you must[/b] present. Inaction is unconscionable and brands you as complicit in these acts. Indeed, you are under holy orders, as Mr. Haley reminds us.
It seems pretty clear that there is more than enough evidence to bring presentment against +Schori, but the problem is, who among the House of Bishops is willing to stand up and do the right thing? Which of them are going to reach the point when they say “Bishop Schori has got to go?” Or will it take a grass roots effort on the part of laity and priests?
6, David, you have a pulpit. You can preach!
Cennydd,
“Or will it take a grass roots effort on the part of laity and priests?”
Reserve a seat on that train for me! 🙂
As an average person in the pew I applaud her behavior. It’s about time someone got tough with folks whose main goal is wrack and ruin. Some bishops with a tad too much testosterone are getting their come-uppance. Great sight to see! You go, Girl!
Once you’ve wiped your feet on Holy Scripture, the C&Cs;are small potatoes. Heck, from the look of this thread, she’s even got a cadre of apple polishers and shoeshine boys cheering her lawlessness on.
I wonder when Bishops Bena and Fairfield will be similarly treated.
Tom Rightmyer trightmy@juno.com Asheville, NC
Re; # 11:
Good flying your colors like that Bill. You’ve basically said that its OK to lie and manipulate as long as you have your own special intentions. How about doing your business in the light of day – you know, something that would pass truth muster to the disinterested atheist on the street. Your chance to witness to your superiority just ended with your comment.
#6, #10
1. We can indeed suggest to her that she consider resigning and taking a nice early retirement package. Given that she appears to be on some sort of power trip, with a presently unclear final objective, this would seem to be a long shot.
2. The procedures of Title IV can be used to depose her if the bishops would go for that. I suspect that the godly men and women who can see into her inner Being might be afraid to go up against her, except as a large group of resolute individuals.
3. We can wait for her to go stark raving mad, and get out on disability. After all, her present actions do not seem to be those of a rational, intelligent person.
4. Folks like Bps. Cox, Schofield, and Duncan can hire smart lawyers (giving them an instant advantage) who can bring about unrelenting civil litigation and charges until she caves in. This has some merit.
5. The most powerful thing that we can do (perhaps in addition to the above) is to pray for her. To pray that God will reveal Himself to her as He actually is, and will show her what she must do to make amends. I cannot imagine that she is NOT having nightmares over what she is doing to God’s Church, unless…well…(maybe it’s better that I not say it). Let’s just say that I find it hard to believe that the hand that signed these letters can also hold the Sacraments.
[i] The tone you use in this thread matters and can lead to comments being deleted. [/i].
-Elf Lady
As far as I can tell, our side is playing defensive and reactionary, if we are playing at all. Schori and her crowd seem to have settled on the strategy of assaulting us with a constant barrage so that there are so many offenses it begins to be hard to keep track of them all. Which to answer first? I don’t think that’s an accident. As long as we wait for the dust to settle she will keep at it, dusting things up continually. By the time we get around to protesting yesterday’s action she is on to today’s and tommorow’s.
It’s time to get on the offensive. Does our side even know what that means? Or is Neville Chamberlain going to send another strongly worder letter accross the Channel?
But Bill, surely would concede that–whatever you *want* to see happen to these bishops–the canons were not followed? I would think “getting tough” would mean *using* the canons, not running roughshod over them. It looks like ecclesiastical vigilantism. That’s not just, is it?
Comment addressed to an individual commenter deleted by elf.
Comment deleted by elf
“Soon everyone will be toothless and blind, the Gospel will have lost its witness in the world, and every one of you will share the blame.”
Mr. Melynk,
Having read all of your posts here on T19 I can safely say that you too will be sharing in some of that blame you stated above!
Violating the canons is precisely the point especually since KJS has demanded that they be adhered to to the letter in the election of Bp. Mark Lawrence. She seems to picka and choose which canons she will uphold and violate to meet her end results she wishes to achieve. That is not what canons, laws, rules, etc… are put in place for. Ask yourself this…..What if the situation was reversed?
One Day ~ Ah, but the situation has often, often been reversed, my friend. People only complain about others’ misuse of canons, never their own. Go and learn what this means: first take the board out of your own eye, then see to the splinter in your brother’s eye. This forum is a continuous feeding frenzy of anger and hatred. There is no healing here, nor love, for that matter.
Bill, then you need to retract your endorsement of the scorch and burn behavior you endorsed above. I don’t understand how you can write one thing in the first post and then urge conciliation in your most recent.
Many comments directed toward or from one commenter have been deleted by elf.
Oops. No conciliation after all. You aren’t credible.
One Day ~ Ah, but the situation has often, often been reversed, my friend.
Name it. Let’s compare the situations. When has anyone on our side ever required of yours adherence to canons when he himself violated the canons? I’m sure we’ would all love to hear your stories
Bill’s thinking is such that leaves no room for godly disgust of the Jesus variety: “you will know them by their fruits”, “faithless generation”, “don’t cast your pearls before the swine”, “brood of vipers”, “white-washed tombs”, etc. Perhaps Jesus should repent of being so “unloving”. Try this: you can’t love what is evil in the sight of God. Lies, false witness, slander, haughtiness, disgrace of trust rank low on God’s list of understanding. KJS and her acolytes HAVE brought the cause of Christ under ill-repute. Find the love in that.
RE: “As an average person in the pew . . . ”
I believe that one may describe Bill Melnyk in many ways, as he is or was a druid Episcopal priest . . . which of course, is fine.
But the words “average person in the pew” — unless Episcopalians have reached new . . . er . . . “measurements” in “average” — would not be a phrase that one could accurately use to describe him.
That being the case, the fact that Bill Melnyk applauds and supports our Presiding Bishop is, I am certain, of great encouragement to her and her public relations team.
Average person in the pew:
In my small church it’s like this. People don’t care anymore. They want to be left alone. They tolerate the bishop and smile when he’s here and ignore him when he isn’t. They just come to worship. They are trying to do the true “new thing” in this land of the ungodly – even their own leaders. Not much ruffles them because they ice out most of the mascinations. But wait til next two GCs. Wait til 815’s dream team mangles a Prayer Book Revision. Then it’s on! There’s going to be a crash of earth-splitting proportions by 2012. Make up the list of people that you want to thank now. They may hide from their own incompetence later.
Politics and injustice……that’s the reason I’ve left TEC after 58 years of being an Episcopalian.
BTW Bill, I left so I could remove YOUR log from my eye. Thanks so much for driving me to Orthodoxy in the OCA.
Peace,
Barry
People must defend to the utmost that which they believe to be right, but we would all do well to consider our words of defense on websites such as this one. The language used in the letters of protest I’ve read – particularly +Lawrence and the SC Standing Committee’s letter – manages to be clear and bold while retaining a tone of integrity and Christian civility that we will be able to stand beside in any light. Outrage ought not cause our beliefs and standards of behavior to go so quickly out the window as seems to be the case in heated discussions online.
[i]Nicely said SpringsEternal! Thank you.
As to this thread, and the one above, they went severely off-topic with folks getting focused on one particular commenter. He has been put in moderation for trollish behavior. When a specific commenter throws out bait trying to produce hostile reactions, PLEASE do not take it. Please remember that tried and true and yes, effective, internet maxim: [b]”PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLLS”[/b] Thanks![/i]
–elfgirl
Choir Stall – Ask those same “pew warmers” what they believe. I think that they couldn’t tell you. They come every Sunday to say the same words, kneel at just the right time, cross themselves and “do the right thing” without any thought to anything Godly. They think that because they say the right words they are Christian, but ask them what’s in their heart. They don’t know and they also don’t know enough about the issues (KJS saying Jesus isn’t the only way to the Father, etc.) to make a judgment.
Good point Already Left. However it assumes that one must be intricately creedal in order to be Christian. Don’t bash me yet. Just remember that the earliest Christians expressed biblical statements much more to the point, like ….
I recall one comment from an unsophisticated pillar – and I mean an indispensable, yet unassuming old man. When faced with the heresies and betrayals of his Church he simply said, “No matter what, Jesus is still the Lord.” His affirmation is enough in the eyes of God. His sanctification will include fuller intellectual expressions through the Creeds, but his heart is right with God. Thank God – because his Church isn’t as simple.
Ladies and gentlemen: can we please conduct ourselves as literate adults on this thread?
PB Schori believes in a living Canon, a Canon which is whatever she says that it is. Any stipulation which was first produced in 1835 has no relevance today. Just as any words uttered by some guy back in Jerusalem has no relevance today. We are all scientific now. We are up to date and up to speed.
I have yet to read any critique of PB Schori which shows her to be out of step with the religious sentiments of any of the modern seminaries, any of the other Protestant denominations, or any other ostensible modern authority.
Those of you who read this thread, attend: Kendall, Martyn Minns, Abp. Akinola, Bp. Cox, and the other saints whom you know are singing in a choir which dates back about 1975 years. That choir will never be silenced. Even the most ruthless Chairman Mao could not silence that great choir.
And that great choir will continue its song in the New Jerusalem.
And the forces of modernity will be placed on the ashheap of history just like all the forces of modernity of generations past. Just read Ecclesiastes once again, just for his description of vanity.
This, too, shall pass.
To be sure, mathman, Schori et al will pass. No one doubts this. The question we need to answer is ,”When the snow and ice melt, what will the run-off take with it?” Larry
Already left: BINGO! You win the Brass Ring! You’ve said what I’ve been saying on this blog and others for the past four years and more. For far too many pew-warmers, the ONLY Church they care about is the four walls of their parish church….and nothing more.
They go through the motions every time they come to church….with nary a thought for what’s happening elsewhere in the Church. They want to come and “feel good.” They don’t….with some exceptions….give a second’s thought to the words of their rector’s sermon, nor do they pay much attention to the Creeds.
A HUGE part of the problem, though, is what is being taught to the children in Sunday School, and I haven’t seen much comment in this blog….or any other, for that matter….about this. Several years ago, before my wife and I left our last former parish, I overheard a parent ask “What in God’s name are they teaching our kids?” His son and daughter had repeated what their teacher had said about the divinity of of Christ…..doubting His divinity.
What are we to assume from questions like this? The answer should be obvious.
I would like to respond to Chris Hathaway’s comments on the reasserters being on the defensive and reactionary. I think that this comment is an important one that we should all think about. I am not suggesting “going on the offensive” in a hostile manner, but rather we need to be assertive with a vision in a more comprehensive manner. We need a strategy. We need something to work TOWARDS rather then against.
Sometimes this will mean standing in place and taking abuse. Sometimes this will mean publicizing injustice. Sometimes this will mean taking assertive steps towards realigning. Sometimes this will involve defending ourselves in court. Sometimes this will involve strategizing on the international Anglican scene.
The letter of last week from the Global South leadership team was a beacon of proactive hope. With everything we do, we need to ask ourselves – how will this help (or not help) a future global, orthodox Anglicanism?