The Church in Wales … voted not to consecrate women bishops. The motion, proposed by Archbishop Dr Barry Morgan, fell by three votes. In the laity it was 52-19, in the clergy 27-18. It fell after the amendments that would have offered alternative oversight for the clergy opponents also failed. Canon Mary Stallard, chaplain to the bishop of St Asaph and pictured on the far right of this picture, said: ‘The moment will come back. We are very disappointed. It is not totally unexpected. But we are looking forward to bringing it back. This issue will not be ignored.’
Read it all and Archbishop Barry Morgan’s piece in the Guardian is here also.
Its the rachet effect. We will keep at it until we get our way.
And activists never give up. But the strange thing is that times change. People are beginning to look more critically at the entire question of women in orders.
Women bishops fail in Wales
…and, one prominent woman bishop has failed in the United States.
#2 Alice Linsley – Are you basing your last sentence on this anecdote from Wales, or do you have other people in mind? I was born in 1969, so by the time I was consciously taking part in the life of the church here in the USA, the ordination of women already seemed a settled matter. I’ve occasionally met people older than myself who have expressed disagreement with women’s ordination, but never (to my recollection) someone my age or younger. I say this not as a challenge but as context for my curiosity. Are you aware of others – laity, clergy, theologians – who are seriously re-thinking this matter? I’m genuinely interested in your reply.
I suppose that if I had been born a decade earlier women’s ordination would have seemed strange to me. As it is, it seems quite ordinary, and to ask whether women should be ordained sounds to me like asking whether people who majored in political science should be ordained, or whether people from Pennsylvania should be ordained. I wonder if a generation from now they’ll say the same thing about openly gay priests. But I don’t mean to say that cynically; I’m open to (and praying for) a revival and a turnaround. I think that God is capable of doing wonderful things, even greater things than I can easily imagine. Perhaps women’s ordination was an error? (I know C.S. Lewis thought it was, since it put up another barrier between us and Rome, as he wrote in a letter to Dorothy Sayers.) Perhaps one day we’ll agree as a church that in this current generation we have also made errors, and repent of them.
May God let it be so. The peace of Christ be with you. Christos anesti!
I should add that while I’m curious, I’m not wholly disinterested, since my wife is currently in an M.Div. program. But she’s a faithful woman, and a prayerful one, who does her best to listen to the Holy Spirit. I think that were God to make it plain to her that women’s ordination is not what He wants, she would not seek it.
I worked for a while as a chaplain at a college. The Episcopal students there were divided over women’s ordination: probably 2/3 for and 1/3 against. Of those, about half were men and half were women. These were all people under the age of 24.
Laocoon, from what I have been told most of the people over at Stand Firm have serious doubts about women priests. Women ordination in Protestant groups is an entirely different matter. It is the pristhood that is the point of contention and Protestants don’t have priests. Also, many faithful Episcopalians left ECUSA in the 70s and 80s over the ordination of women to the priesthood. You and your wife would probably be interested to read what they have to say, here: http://anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/
You may also be interested in this: http://descant.classicalanglican.net/?p=2331
Laocoon, you will find more on the question of women priests here in an interview done by Wim Houtman of the Nederlands Dagblat: http://www.challengeonline.org/modules/articles/article.php?id=124
Best wishes!
Problem is that the process works likes this:
Question: Does the Holy Spirit require women in orders?
Answer: No
Response: Try again
repeat ad nauseum until the answer is ‘Yes’- then declare it God’s work and never allow anyone to go back!
Is that discernment of the Spirit – or agenda pushing? It is exactly what happened in the UK until the vote in 1992
For those interested in CS Lewis’ view on this subject, his essay [url=http://tinyurl.com/7endl]Priestesses in the Church[/url] is here. Don’t blame me for the title he chose if it causes you offense. I think this can be found in print in the collection of Lewis’ essays called “God in the Dock”.
Has any Church gained membership with the ordination of Women. I have been told that all who have ordained Women have lost membership. I would really like to know the facts as it affects membership?
God Bless
paul
And thanks to the rest of you who replied as well!
Christos anesti!
Thanks, Alice!