Mohler: Where do you see this leaving the Episcopal Church, U.S.?
Conger: I see it in the law courts over the next 10 years, frankly, as Evangelical parishes or Anglo-Catholic parishes who are the traditionally-minded members of the Episcopal Church either pull out and join new denominations, or take shelter and refuge under the leadership of bishops from overseas churches.
This is going to spark litigations over property, and who gets to call themselves an Episcopalian, who’s an Anglican. It’s a mess, and there is no short-term solution that I see to fix this problem save for one side giving up and going away.
Mohler: Now you are affiliated with and a priest of the Diocese of Central Florida, that’s known as more of the conservative of the regions of the Episcopal Church. I would compare that to San Francisco, or Washington, or Los Angeles. In what sense are you really part of one church at this point?
Conger: We’re not part of one church in the sense that I could not function”¦ A priest from, say, San Francisco who was a gay man or had been divorced and remarried, for example, could not come to where I am near Orlando and function as an Episcopal Priest. I could not get a job or license because of my theological views in many parts of the Episcopal Church. There is no interchangeability of clergy. It’s become Balkanized along doctrinal and theological views.
Some of the comments about the interview trot out the old canards about Henry VIII and the Church of England. These show historical ignorance and prejudice. Henry’s daughter Queen Mary restored England to papal obedience. Her half-sister Elizabeth recognized that the people rejected papal authority and in 1570 the then pope issued an order than she be deposed – 16th century regime change. Mary’s husband Philip of Spain sent an Armada in 1588 to do that and failed.
The Church of England and the churches that were established by its members worldwide form the Anglican Communion. The position of the large number of bishops of that communion was stated in Lambeth 1998 resolution 1.10 and the Archbishop of Canterbury who holds a positon of honor in the communion has said that this resolution remains the position of the communion.
The Episcopal Church has an opportunity to say by its House of Bishops in September, 2008, and by General Convention in summer, 2009, that it agrees to a moratorum on (1) the consecration of any (more) bishops in same-sex relationshipe, and (2) asking God’s blessing on any (more) same-sex relationships. Should it do so much work will be needed to reconcile those who have left the Episcopal Church with those who have remained, but it can be done.
If the Episcopal Church does not agree to these two moratoria further division can be expected.
Conger is absolutely right. And 1 is right about the Church of England. If any monarch can be called the founder it’s Queen Elizabeth I. Henry was a Catholic to his bones.
[blockquote]Should it do so much work will be needed to reconcile those who have left the Episcopal Church with those who have remained, but it can be done.[/blockquote]
That simply is fantastical thinking. As if the soon-to-be-deposed +Duncan will ever sit down with the demonizing Chane.
Ms Schori, Bruno, Andrus, etc. have already rejected the moratorium on SSUB’s. But let’s give them till GC09. But then give them till GC12 to vote on it twice. We could revisit it at the spring of HoB meeting in 2016…
Why are we not talking about a moratorium on actively practicing homosexual clergy and not just bishops?
Mr Rightmeyer is playing the same losing game that the orthodox have played for the past five years with all the rules made up as we go along by the liberals.
It is time to stop playing that game and start shaking some sandals. Ephraim+ once called for a separate General Convention. Good start. Are +Howe, +Lillibridge, etc., going to GC09, where B033 will be voted down, and say, “Well, at least we were collegial.”?
“It’s become Balkanized along doctrinal and theological views.”
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“Balanized” to the point where many of us prefer not to worship in revisionist churches.
The clergy in revisionist dioceses are ‘suspect’ in the same sense that Samuel’s priest-sons were suspect.
Let’s not get side tracked on side issues. The Rev. George Conger understands what is going on and answers Mohler’s questions directly and honestly with no equivocations. Mohler was stunned by Fr. Conger’s honesty.
Talking about any moratoria is useless at this point. TEC has no intention of stopping ssb/actually in two states they are now not blessings they are marriages. It is only a matter of time before another openly homosexual person is elected to the Episcopate. Without the first two moratoriums the third will never happen.
Balkanization is an accurate term for the situation.
At its essence the “Reflections” document and by extension Lambeth 2008 (and it may be further implied, the entire episcopate of the Anglican Communion):
[blockquote] It has no force. It has no authority. [/blockquote]
The only currently recognized temporal authority, I submit, is that of those who openly, callously, and calculatingly mask (and attempt through ceaseless bouts of sophistry and casuistry and baloney slinging to subvert) the true, demonstrated, unfailing, constant, and consistent authority of our LORD and Savior Jesus Christ and the Word of God written.
We are, indeed, very deep in the Balkans, friends. The Rev. Conger has hit the nail squarely and firmly on the head.
“Balkanization” is the exact strategy that TEC and its allies are cheering on. As long as pieces keep splitting off and TEC can still point to being in “communion” with Canterbury, they get to claim the exclusive, geographically-based Anglican franchise in the U.S. If the orthodox/reasserting groups have any hope of coalescing into something with critical mass, they need to move the center of the Anglican communion away from Canterbury and towards a more global, synodical governing structure. Canterbury is not your friend; he does not wish you well – you need to understand this. He has cast his lot with TEC and their allies. GAFCON can play nice with Canterbury, but if they do not move to establish a force independent of Canterbury, the move to reestablish orthodoxy as the norm within the Anglican communion will fail, IMHO.
Daniel I think many of us recognized it at Dar es Salaam when the sub group report came out. Neither the ABC nor, for that matter, the ACI/Fulcrum, are our friends.
It was the ABC’s expressed “concern” that this would happen. Why, then, have his actions and inactions (notably Lame-beth 2008) been such as to ensure it in fact?