On a rainy evening in December in the upstate South Carolina town of Greer, as his once-languishing campaign was clawing its way back into contention, John McCain hosted a town hall meeting at a diner called Pete’s Drive-In.
He talked about the issues that usually stir his passions — a commitment to service, winning the war in Iraq, fighting pork-barrel spending — before taking questions from a small audience of Republican primary voters.
As the event neared its conclusion, a man in the back of the restaurant raised his hand and broached a topic not often heard at the VFW and American Legion halls where McCain preferred to campaign.
“I was wondering if you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior,” the voter said.
What’s the word I’m looking for? Oh, yes. “Idolatry.” And while I know it’s simply a by-design feature of modern liberal democracies like the U.S. that Christianity (and other faiths) be relegated to the disembodied, consumerist realm of privatized personal preference so as not to challenge the hegemonic power of the nation-state, I still can’t help but marvel at how many Christians in America can so participate without any sense of disquiet whatever. At any rate, I suspect that McCain wouldn’t know Jesus from a stick in the mud. Kyrie eleison.
Eaten, I don’t openly talk about my religious beliefs in public places, but that doesn’t mean that I’m not religious or that I don’t have Christian values. John McCain is no different. If he says that his belief in God pulled him through some of the most trying times a man can endure, then I believe him.
Another former Episcopalian is Mccain – ah the symbolism…..
http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/2000/03/06/mccain.faith.html
McCain’s great-grandfather was an Episcopal minister, and his father prayed twice daily–on his knees. Despite McCain’s Episcopal heritage, however, the service he attends–“every time he’s in town; John is faithful in worship,” says Yeary–is the 9 a.m. Sunday “contemporary” gathering at North Phoenix Baptist……
McCain began attending Baptist services in Tempe, Ariz., before moving to Phoenix. “I just liked the church,” he says. The four youngest McCain children are Baptists. Still, McCain maintains his Episcopalianism. Richard Jackson, pastor emeritus of North Phoenix, is not bothered. “I’m concerned about a person’s relationship with Christ,” he says, “and I was convinced he had that personal faith.”
Cennydd,
Thanks for the response. I don’t doubt that McCain’s personal faith is sincere and has been of enormous help to him at various times in his life; my question is simply, “Faith in whom/what?” That is to say, being “religious” and/or having “Christian values” doesn’t say a thing as to whether or not what one means by words like “God” or “Jesus” is what Nicea is after. In addition, the god of which I’ve heard McCain repeatedly speak is one whose kingdom seems all but to be equated with that of the United States of America, and surely it would be incorrect to mistake such a god for the One who has been revealed in/through Christ. Lastly, as McCain has made quite clear, and as is reflected in the quote above, for him [i] nothing [/i] comes before his country. For anyone claiming to be disciple of the risen Christ, such an error is fundamental. Thanks again for the dialogue. Peace.
eaten_by_chipmunks
Like Shechem, Solomon, the men of Ezra’s time, Pres. Bush and most men, I’m guessing McCain’s worship at another church has a lot more to do with his hottie wife than anything else. Do we really think that if Cindy were a liturgy-loving Episcopalian that McCain would say, nah…I prefer the Baptist service? I seriously doubt it.
I prefer to leave one’s wife out of it. As a former Scout, I place my faith in God and Country……in that order, and I still hold to Scout values…..even after all of these years.
I would not base my vote on candidates’ answers to the question about their religious beliefs, so long as their professed religion has nothing which would make them unable to perform their duties in government office as defined in the American Constitution.
I’m dubious about the claim that McCain would put country above God. He is campaigning to be President, and the judgment voters have to make is how he would perform those duties. As to the condition of his soul, or Obama’s, this is not something voters are able to determine, nor should we try.
I want to be clear, Katherine, that I make no judgments regarding McCain’s eternal destiny – only that I do not sufficiently recognize the God of historic Christian orthodoxy in his “religious” language. I am suggesting that Nicea’s use of the words “God” and “Jesus” versus McCain’s use of the same overlap only to the degree in which they can be said to be homonyms. In short, I don’t know who McCain is referring to in his usage of those terms. At any rate, your additional comments in #7 seem to reflect the same understanding of how one’s Christian faith is to operate with respect to the American civil government for which I expressed such concern in #1. Rather than spend too much time on the topic here, allow me to refer you to the works of John H. Yoder and Stanley Hauerwas, as these represent two of the stronger and more relevant influences to my current thinking in terms of what I was after in comments #1 and #4. Thanks for the interaction. Peace.
Cennyydd, I too am a former Scout! Those were some good times, no? Did you make it all the way to Eagle? All I would say to #6 is that I fear, given what America by virtue of itself is, that one’s devotion to God puts one in outright opposition to one’s country far more often than most American Christians dare to realize. Again, though, I should probably just refer you to Hauerwas and Yoder for further elaboration and not take up too much time in this format. Thanks again. Peace.
[i]I prefer to leave one’s wife out of it. [/i]
Fine. But if you do, you’re going to miss the reasons behind a great deal of, if not most of, human behavior. I stand with the Bible in my willingness to talk about things like this.
Bud Day, a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient and fellow POW with McCain talked to McCain after he broke under torture. Bud Day says McCain told him the cross story while they were still POWs. McCain was raised in a Christian environment. I do not know the eternal fate of any one nor do I want to. I have trouble with Obama quoting his “the least of these passages†and then voting against letting babies born alive after abortions live! By the way I think it is interesting that Hauerwas is supporting Obama(mindfulmission.com/index.php/2008/07/26/hauerwas_on_obama )!
Dave B, thanks for the Hauerwas link on Obama. I’ll have to ask him about that when he gets back. I probably wouldn’t say that he “supports” Obama, though. 🙂
As for me, I won’t be voting at all, this election or any other in the foreseeable future. Making the choice for the lesser of two evils, as I suspect [i] any [/i] American presidential election must necessarily be, is still a choice for evil and that’s obviously problematic. I will say that, while I place no hope in it whatsoever, I’d be happier if Obama got elected than McCain. The latter, for reasons beyond all I’ve written above, just scares the hell out of me.
Not sure it’s worth extensive discussion here, eaten_by_chipmunks. The reference to Hauerwas tells me that perhaps your basis of objection is Christian pacifism, which is of course a respectable strain of Christian thought, among others. I very much doubt that McCain is the uncontrolled aggressive pro-war sort of guy Vladimir Putin seems to be these days, nor do I see much evidence in his record that he would do something seriously contrary to Christian principles in his discharge of his duties — unless you feel that war is always per se un-Christian.
We have in this country a wide variety of Christians as well as other religions and no religion. We have a public system which is based on Christian values — traditional marriage being a foundational one, as well as not condoning the murders of children or disobedient wives. Several of our Presidents were not traditional Christians, and the nation survived that. They all accepted the basic public consensus on family structure and our constitutional political system. I would seriously question whether a traditional Muslim could promise to support the American system, since his religion has specific teachings on family and political structure which conflict with ours. A modern Mormon, or a Unitarian like Jefferson, or an atheist, probably could, depending upon his expressed opinions and record.
Your first paragraph is perceptive, Katherine. You are correct, I do not see how the Christian can justifiably condone or willingly participate in the taking of human life under any circumstances (war, abortion, capital punishment, free market capitalism, etc.). Unfortunately, the U.S., as must virtually every modern liberal democracy, has always and must require perpetual violence of various kinds in order to sustain itself, rendering the notion that it was founded on “Christian values” (though I must confess having no idea what that phrase means or what significance for the present it has) more than a little problematic. I would thus like to push you a little as to your second paragraph’s use of first person plural pronouns (“we” who?) but would imagine we’ve about pushed this conversation as far as it will go here. Thanks again for the dialogue. Peace.
Peace to you also.