When a 15-year-old comes into Wile-e’s bar looking for a cold beer, the bartender, Mike Whaley, is happy to serve it up ”” as long as a parent is there to give permission.
“If they’re 15, 16, 17, it’s fine if they want to sit down and have a few beers,” said Mr. Whaley, who owns the tavern in this small town in southern Wisconsin.
While it might raise some eyebrows in most of America, it is perfectly legal in Wisconsin. Minors can drink alcohol in a bar or restaurant in Wisconsin if they are accompanied by a parent or legal guardian who gives consent. While there is no state law setting a minimum age, bartenders can use their discretion in deciding whom to serve.
When it comes to drinking, it seems, no state keeps pace with Wisconsin. This state, long famous for its breweries, has led the nation in binge drinking in every year since the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention began its surveys on the problem more than a decade ago. Binge drinking is defined as five drinks in a sitting for a man, four for a woman.
Europe’s liqour laws are by and large less restrictive than in the US, yet the problems with alcohol abuse are less severe there. Why?
People driving drunk, blacking out, and falling down drunk in the street are very bad things. But is it really true that a 200 lb man having five drinks between 6 PM and midninght on Saturday is on a binge?
I don’t think so, yet that’s what the CDC’s working definitioin of ‘binge drinking’ is. A man with normal liver function would have no difficulty whatever in passing a breathalyzer test very soon afterward.
So part of the ‘crisis’ is a wholly factitious definition of ‘binge drinking’.
Cheers,
Phil Hobbs
Having gone to seminary on the cheese-planet (Nashotah House) I was surprised at how much alcohol was central to life there (and I was 5 years sober when I arrived, and by His grace still am). The rector of a local parish described his town as having 18 churches and 52 bars.
But on the other hand – I get a sense of New York arrogance (I was born in Brooklyn) whenever I hear the NY Times write about Wisconsin, Michigan, or anyplace in the midwest since we are ‘fly-over’ zone and therefore a place completely foreign to New Yorkers (unless they spent 4 years in here in the left-wing bastions in our states….the college towns – Madison, Ann Arbor, etc.).
I’m with you Phil. The CDC’s definition of binge drinking is laughable. And Chris, the UK has a worse problem with drunkenness than we do.
[i] Europe’s liquor laws are by and large less restrictive than in the US, yet the problems with alcohol abuse are less severe there. Why? [/i]
Good question. Perhaps our restrictive laws make alcohol a more enticing forbidden fruit. Italy, where wine is part of everyday life, has a low rate of alcohol abuse.
In that spirit, parents should be free to let their children drink wine at the dinner table as part of a meal.
[i] The UK has a worse problem with drunkenness than we do. [/i]
In the United States we rightly restrict outdoor drinking and prohibit public drunkeness.
I lived for many years in a French-speaking nation. My children drank wine with their meals from the time they could hold a cup, and had vastly less problem with alcohol as teenagers than the typical American counterpart.
The long and short of it is that a lot of Americans consume alcohol in order to get drunk. Certainly you don’t drink a Budweiser for the flavour. At our local brew pub — in a university town — you rarely find a person who’s had more than perhaps a tiny bit too much … and that because the beer’s so tasty!
Jesus didn’t tell us not to drink. He told us not to get drunk, and that’s as wise today as it was in his time.
I should have clarified – continental Europe has fewer problems with alcohol abuse. CDC must be scared by the scolds at MADD, which has morphed from drunk driving to neo prohibition:
http://pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/023243/
Chris [#8]: Even with Bush and Rove in the White House, MADD inspired no fear at the CDC.
In all this talk about drinking in Europe, no one has mentioned Russia?
I don’t favor a prohibition mindset, far from it. But I do note there were real problems that awakened the temperance movement and MADD. Every year – every year – there are numerous DUI wrecks involving high school students in my area. There are also parents out there throwing “keg parties” or “field parties” with enough liquor to float the Titanic. The two are not, I think, unrelated. A sensible approach to alcohol, as evidenced in France and Italy, would be the ideal. Any ideas on how to get there from here? I’m tired of writing stories about young lives lost and grieving parents.
PS to #9: MADD gave itself over to a sort of opportunistic scapegoating two decades ago, when it crusaded to raise the drinking age to 21 nationwide. But people aged 18-20 are an easier target (even if they never drink and drive) than older, wealthier drunk drivers.
Irenaeus #9, since you often point out inappropriate references to politicians, can you tell me what “Bush and Rove” have to do with the item posted or Chris’s comment in #8?
Sherri [#10]: I favor tough laws against drunken driving, strictly and unflinchingly enforced. I supported MADD during its early years, when it focused squarely on that same goal.
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Let’s not speak of “Europe” as an undifferentiated drinkerdom. There are huge differences in drinking patterns from one part to another. For positive examples, look south. Italy and Greece have good records. I suspect that the same has historically been true for France, Spain, and Portugal.
I supported MADD during its early years, when it focused squarely on that same goal.
Ditto, Irenaeus – and I agree that they’ve gone off the deep end a bit since.
I mentioned Russia because I think we do need to differentiate which “Europe” we’re talking about. Healthy eating and healthy drinking too…. hmm. And I bet it’s a lot warmer in Greece today than it is in Georgia?
Katherine [#12]: MADD’s agenda has a content and an unabashed moralism that resonates particularly well with the sort of Christian conservatives cultivated by Bush and Rove.
Elite liberals (of the sort Chris presumably thinks populate the CSC) tend to find the MADD crusade a bit ridiculous. I know this first-hand, as I strongly supported MADD during its early years and continues to favor strict rules against impaired driving.
Irenaeus, I am with you on MADD’s early goals and against their prohibition crusade.
The crack about Bush and Rove is out of line, as you have no connection to offer between them and MADD’s prohibition campaign other than your dislike for them in general.
Katherine [#15]: According to the [url=http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/quickstats/binge_drinking.htm]Centers for Disease Control[/url], “binge drinking” involves “a pattern of drinking that brings a person’s blood alcohol concentration (BAC) to 0.08 grams percent or above. This typically happens when men consume 5 or more drinks, and when women consume 4 or more drinks, in about 2 hours.” Based on this definition, Chris [#8] took a swipe at the CDC’s integrity and pointed to articles by Glenn Reynolds and David (“Nanny State”) Harsanyi. It’s quite reasonable to see figures like Harsanyi and Reynolds as implicating conventional conservative politics. But these articles were not phrased in partisan terms and, on reflection, I withdraw the references to Bush and Rove.
Good job Wisconsin!!! As has been said before, “Remember, Where there are four Episcopalians (or Anglicans-GRIN) there is always a fifth!!”
They don’t call “us” Whiskypalians for nothing!!
Thank you, Irenaeus #17.
As an aside, Glenn Reynolds is not a religious conservative. He leans libertarian and is pro-“choice” and pro-“gay marriage.” Hardly “conventional conservative politics.” It is his economic conservatism which make you think of him this way.
I am not familiar with David Harsanyi’s writings in general, but the linked article which Reynolds pointed to says the same things Reynolds said and which comments here have said: MADD was fine as long as it worked on drunk driving, but has gone pro-prohibition, which is foolish. Young people might not drink so excessively if they were allowed to have alcohol in the ordinary way, associated with meals and conversation. You agree with this.
I do read links to “liberal” columns and commentary, and I often find at least some points on which I can agree. I think you agree with both Reynolds and Harsanyi on the issue we are discussing. “Conventional conservative politics” is perhaps not real. There are many shades and disagreements among generally “conservative” viewpoints, as there are among “liberals.”
As to the CDC, if I have four drinks in two hours, I’m drunk. But then, I’ve always been a short hitter. I do tend to think of “binge drinking” as being more the high school and college “drink until you throw up” nonsense which might be less common if kids could be taught to drink at meals and with conversation at cafes as the Western Europeans do.