Religion must reject violence, Pope Benedict XVI told Muslim leaders Thursday before celebrating an open-air Mass in front of thousands and delivering a message of hope for Africa’s expanding, vibrant Catholic flock.
In Cameroon’s capital of Yaounde, a clapping, swaying crowd of 40,000 welcomed Benedict to a sports stadium ”” his first occasion as pope to be among a great crowd of faithful on the continent that is witnessing the church’s biggest growth.
Irony is lost on this man.
Please, by all means, elaborate. Or are you merely sniping today?
Genuine Christianity eschews aggressive violence, but surely the Holy Father knows enough about Islam to be aware that its founder was positively enthused about it and that his followers consider said religion the only true one out there. Why on earth would these followers be less dedicated to violence when the guy they think was the perfect human being was soaked in blood himself?
Benedict XVI again speaks the truth with the courage of his convictions and a disregard for keeping an appearance pleasing to the mob of secular opinion. Unlike you, Brian from T19, who prefer here and on the posts on the Buddhist likely soon to be bishop to snipe by comparing apples to oranges. Specifically, that +Mark Lawrence’s situation is remotely comparable to Kevin Thew Forrester’s. as TEC hacks try to portray it; and that the Crusades and other violence committed by those claiming the name Christian but in fact acting contrary to Christ’s teachings are comparable to Muslim terroristts who are in fact following the teachings of the Quran and the Commentaries and the example of their human author and Islam’s founder Mohammed. I say human author of the Quran because Mohammed first thought he was going insane with his “revelations” and was terrified by them. The Quran is inspired, but not divinely. It has not a speck of grace or mercy in it, which permeate and saturate the Bible. Ask a Muslim if Allah loves them and they will likely snort in derision. They certainly could not find assurance of that in the Quran. The living LORD God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who humbled Himself to become one of us except in sin reassures us of His love for us to the uttermost throughout Scripture. Apples and oranges indeed!
I basically agree with Jeffersonian. The pope is just using words in an odd way here. It’s not part of the defining essence of what “religion” is for it to be nonviolent. Many religions (including that of the Church of Rome at certain times) have been violent.
It may be the case that the pope is saying that violent religions are BAD, or that he disapproves of them. But that’s different from saying that they aren’t actually religions.
Suppose, for example, I personally believed that non-democratic governments were immoral. Then certainly I can say that. But it’s silly for me to say that “true governments are democratic.” Umm, no. Rule by kings, by dictators, by oligarchies, and so on are all governments. I might not like them, but that doesn’t make them not governments.
Likewise it would be silly for me to say that true Americans go to church, or oppose abortion, or (fill in the blank). I may WISH that all Americans did those things, but to do so isn’t part of the defining essense of what the word AMERICAN means.
Just a point of reference from a reference Librarian:
The Crusades were started by the Muslims in their zeal to take over the Holy Land. When the Muslim armies were approaching Constantinople and Jerusalem, the Patriarch of Constantinople called upon the Pope of Rome to send men and aid, and the Crusades were the result.
The travesty and tragedy of the Crusades were the way the crusaders behaved after taking Jerusalem, i.e., no better than the Muslim conquerors, that left a permanent stain on the name Christian from the Muslim and Jewish point of view (and probably Orthodox, as well), and to this day are spoken of as a Christian attack on a ‘peaceful people’.
OK-several points
1. The history of Christianity is filled with more acts of violence in the name of God than any other religion that has ever existed on the face of the Earth. Many of those acts of violence (the Crusades being but a tiny portion of them) were sanctioned by the so-called Holy Father of that time. Many “pilgrims” received absolution for any atrocities they may commit PRIOR to going out and committing them. From whom you ask? Why, the Church. Imagine that.
2. The revisionist history of Christianity perpetrated by the reasserters is typical of the fact that the victor writes the history.
3. “Genuine Christianity” is to Christian violence as Genuine Islam is to Islamist violence.
4. I can cite many, many acts of violence sanctioned by the leaders of the Christian Church past and present. Can anyone cite even a few instances of leaders in the Islamic faith sanctioning violence?
5. It is sad that many here choose to remain ignorant of Islam and the actual history of Mohammed, but then that’s why the Islamists kill us anyway.
6. Benedict XVI again speaks the truth with the courage of his convictions and a disregard for keeping an appearance pleasing to the mob of secular opinion.
[Brian from T19] again speaks the truth with the courage of his convictions and a disregard for keeping an appearance pleasing to the mob of [reasserter] opinion..
Unlike you, Brian from T19, who prefer here and on the posts on the Buddhist likely soon to be bishop to snipe by comparing apples to oranges. Specifically, that +Mark Lawrence’s situation is remotely comparable to Kevin Thew Forrester’s. as TEC hacks try to portray it
The ironic similarity in these two situations is that both elections failed to meet the canonical requirements for election. As has been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt.
and that the Crusades and other violence committed by those claiming the name Christian but in fact acting contrary to Christ’s teachings are comparable to Muslim terroristts who are in fact following the teachings of the Quran and the Commentaries and the example of their human author and Islam’s founder Mohammed.
Again, missing the irony. I don’t make any moral equivalence between the Pope’s sanctioning of the Crusades and the acts of terror carried out by Islamist terrorists. The Christians slaughter (pardon the pun) the competition in numbers, scope, scale, savagery, etc.
Clearly you’ve found us out, Brian: yes, it’s time to come clean and admit that all those Catholic Charity chapters are actually terrorist cells and Catholic Relief Services are an international front for running guns to kill the infidels! And thank God us papists don’t spend our money on schools, universities, hospitals, and family service organizations when we need to be arming the Catholic people to conquer the world.
OH! If only Mao,Stalin,Hitler and Pol Pot hadn’t been Christians! The world would be so much better!
Brian is too steeped in the gaseous guilt of the Left to understand that the Holy Father was speaking of the religions themselves, not in the acts their practitioners. He sneers at acts of violence by Christians, but never contemplates the fountainhead of the ethic that allows him to make that judgment.
It’s undeniable that Christians themselves have acted abominably in the name of Christ over the past two millenia, but one then must ask: Were these Christians acting in accordance with Christ’s commandments or at odds with them? I think we all know the answer to that, just as we know the answer to the same question as applied to Islam. And [i]that[/i] is BXVI’s point.
Words Matter
Islam spends far more on charities, schools, universities and relief services. Hitler’s Catholicism is a prime example of racialist Christianity.
Islamic [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Land_Foundation_for_Relief_and_Development]”charity”[/url].
Hitler was baptized as a baby and renounced Christianity in favor of a form of paganism, as Stalin renounced Orthodoxy in favor of atheism. Let’s just add that to the lies you’ve already told. Also, unless you can verify the claim about Islamic charities, I’ll add that one, too, although I was thinking more of the American Humanists, with all their hospital and charitable organization.
Come to think of it, can you verify anything you wrote in #7? Or do you consider it enough to just say it?
If I’m not confusing people, you are the fellow who lost his evangelical faith and now spends his time spitting on Christians and shrieking “Christianity is bad”. You know, I lost my faith once, but I wasn’t driven to slandering folks. I just quit going to Mass.
And, Brian, if you slander and scream enough, you might gather enough of a mob to drive Christianity underground. Probably not, though the Russian Communists almost managed it. But you’ll still be desperate, trapped in the hell of hate and rage to which you have condemned yourself. And who will you blame then?
Words Matter, well he can always blame Sarah.
Hitler was baptized as a baby and renounced Christianity in favor of a form of paganism
Time for you to show your work. Show me the rebubciation of Catholicism by Hitler himself. Show me the excommunication by the Roman Catholic Church (it is argued that it was automatic, but not cited). He was active in the Church throughout his youth.
Also, unless you can verify the claim about Islamic charities,
First, since you and other reasserters on this blog continue to demonstrate a total ignorance of Islam, I will teach you about one of the Five Pillars. One of the five duties incumbent on ALL Muslims is the duty of Zakat (alms to the poor). All Muslims must give charity to the poor. Unlike tithing, Zakat is mandatory and is given at a higher percent than the minimu required by all Muslims:
It is an obligation on Muslims to pay 1/40 (2.5%) of the wealth which they have had for a full lunar year,1/40 (2.5%) of goods used for trade, and 5% or 10% of certain type of harvests depending on irrigation. Exempt from Zakat are a person’s house and personal transportation.
Zakat is not mandatory on harvest if the total did not reach the minimum limit of about 653 kilograms, nor on gold amounts if the owner has less than 85 grams of gold or less than 595 grams of silver -Robinson, “Islam; A Concise Introduction” Curzon Press 1999
If you would like, you can find a list of Islamic Charities on any search engine. The premiere (and one of the top charitable orgs in the world) is Islamic Relief (http://www.irw.org/)
If I’m not confusing people, you are the fellow who lost his evangelical faith and now spends his time spitting on Christians and shrieking “Christianity is badâ€. You know, I lost my faith once, but I wasn’t driven to slandering folks. I just quit going to Mass.
I was an evangelical. I now follow Jesus. I spit on no one and do not believe that any of the teaqchings of Jesus are bad. I have no problem with true followers of Jesus. I have problems with hypocrites. I regularly attend Mass. And it’s not slander if it is true.
Hitler’s actions themselves were a rebuttal of his ‘Christianity’, if he ever practiced it, which is doubtful. His desire to return to the ‘Tutonic dieties’ showed that he did not consider himself a Christian.
Plus, he has been quoted as saying he wished to eradicate Christianity in favor of Nationalism:
“It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood. One is either a Christian or a German. You can’t be both.”
I point to Dave Shiflett’s website article on {url=http://www.nationalreview.com/shiflett/shiflett012102.shtml]Hitler and Christianity[/url] which quotes from an article from Rutgers Journal of Law and Religion entitled [url=http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml]The Nazi Master Plan: the eradication of Christianity[/url].
correction:
the title of the Rutger’s article is
[url=http://www.lawandreligion.com/nurinst1.shtml]”The Nazi Master Plan: The Persecution of the Christian Churches”[/url]
The embeded link for Shiflett’s website is
[url=http://www.nationalreview.com/shiflett/shiflett012102.shtml]Hitler and Christianity[/url]
I accidentally put in a { instead of a [ for the opening html code. 🙁
Apparently Godwin’s Law has been repealed, or at least declared inapplicable to reappraisers foaming at the keyboard.
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[Commenters are invited to discuss the issues rather than hurl insults at each other – Elf]