The sheer difficulty of doing any kind of evangelism, even the most polite and meek sort, while attached to TEC seems insuperable. So we await the Windsor Bishops, the House of Bishops, and September 30. And that is, of course, close after Michaelmas, harvest time.
This is, ultimately THE issue in all our disputes. How do we in good conscience invite those who are unchurched to “Meet Jesus” under the auspices of our present dilemma? Under the auspices of our present HOB? I must admit, as strongly as I feel that God leads and we simply try to stay out of His way in evangelizing, I still feel a tug against inviting people into our morass of disagreement. Ultimately, I can feel the Evil One at work in all this.
Chrisitianity after all, is the acceptance of Conscription in the Army of God. It is the acknowledgement of the fact that Yes, Martha, we are in a war, and Yes, it is worth dying for. That’s not exactly a marketable message in this day and age, but it IS to those who take the time to look inside themselves and see the Battle raging. At that point they know that they will have to decide where to stand, and the only stance that makes sense in light of the faith we have inherited is the reasserter position. To me, a “safe house” guarded by +++ABC within TEC for reasserter churches will simplify this task greatly.
But that doesn’t make connecting the dots, and then showing someone else how to do the same, any fun. Like I tell my kids all the time, “fair” is a human invention akin to “utopia”, which means, as we know, “no place.”
If only such a “safe house” were in the cards. I don’t think TEC will go for it; in fact, the HOB has already emphatically refused the proposal. Waiting until Sept. 30 is just procedural. The outcome is assured, unless something dramatic and miraculous occurs.
I left my local radical TEC diocese when I realized that (a) I couldn’t put money on the offering plate to support un-Christian initiatives in the diocese and national church and (b) I didn’t feel right about bringing a neighbor who was experiencing a conversion to my parish.
Katherine writes, “I didn’t feel right about bringing a neighbor who was experiencing a conversion to my parish.” I am in a wonderful parish and have a wonderful rector (for two more weeks), wonderful asst rector (for a couple of months more) and then???, but I feel exactly the same. I was wondering to where did you flee?
Those of you who know me know that I have stood firm for Jesus Christ through this all. I was an eyewitness to the first “election” and the birth of the Network. I support the Network, the Global South, and all people who stand firm for Christ no matter what.
But my own personal decision – based on much prayer and firmly believing I was in obedience to my Lord – was to worship non-denominational for the time being. That was 3.5 years ago, and I have not regretted it. Last week I invited an un-churched young man to join us. No reservations about what he would see there, and there is a good chance he could come to Christ there.
That doesn’t mean my own decision was right for everyone. But if each of us genuinely carries out, in obedience, what the Lord has for us to do, He will be pleased with us all. I’m not too sure He is pleased with Dr. Radner for publicly leaving the Network. It would have been better for all had he resigned quietly, and less publicly.
robroy, not wanting to leave what Dr. Toon calls “the Anglican Way,” I visited non-TEC Anglican parishes in my area, and chose what seemed to me the best parish available at the time. My rector, a full-time banker and a part-time priest, offers more in the way of adult education and Bible study than did my previous TEC rector, plus excellent preaching. There are now several other parishes of various affiliations. My parish may or may not stick with its current Continuing affiliation depending upon the results in the next few months. I am praying for a unified effort that will accomodate both soon-to-be-ex Episcopalians, recently ex-Episcopalians, and Common Cause Extra-mural Anglicans. I’m convinced it’s the right movement at the right time.
This is, ultimately THE issue in all our disputes. How do we in good conscience invite those who are unchurched to “Meet Jesus†under the auspices of our present dilemma? Under the auspices of our present HOB? I must admit, as strongly as I feel that God leads and we simply try to stay out of His way in evangelizing, I still feel a tug against inviting people into our morass of disagreement. Ultimately, I can feel the Evil One at work in all this.
Bingo. As one who is current paddling across the Tiber, I naturally have enthusiasim for my journey but it is not driven by a hatred for what I am leaving. I can say with certainly that the RCIA course in which I am presently enrolled in contains little in the way of “theo-talk” between dissenting organizational elements of the Roman Catholic Church, rather it centers on controversial issues only to the extent that they deal with the character of the bible, religious history, the nature of salvation, grace etc. While we may not all agree on Catholic teachings in these areas, it is nevertheless true that for the unchurched, the “evangelism” of Catholicism is (and will likely continue to be) a much better alternative than TEC, although there are pockets of TEC with faithful and orthodox clergy, good teaching , preaching, fellowship and all of the other ingredients that make one want to associate with any church. But I fear as the national reputation of TEC continues to decline, such churches will become more and more rare and the overall evangelistic possibilties of TEC will be limited to those groups that they have pandered to over the past 20 or so years.
If only such a “safe house†were in the cards.
Supposing there was a “safe house” within TEC. Would I trust? Would I feel assured that the ilk wouldn’t creep through the walls and under the door jam? I appreciate all those who are trying to build such a house, but know I would never Trust……….that which would still be within TEC.
If, as we expect, TEC stays on course, and, as is beginning to seem very likely, the ABC does nothing, then isn’t the question going to be asked, “Is there a safe house in the Anglican Communion?”
robroy – you can always check out the CEC… The Charismatic Episcopal Church exists to make visible the Kingdom of God to the nations of the world; to bring the rich sacramental and liturgical life of the early church to searching evangelicals and charismatics; to carry the power of Pentecost to our brothers and sisters in the historic churches; and finally, to provide a home for all Christians who seek a liturgical-sacramental, evangelical, charismatic church and a foundation for their lives and gifts of ministry. The Charismatic Episcopal Church is not and has never been affiliated with the Episcopal Church USA or the Anglican Communion.
T
It’s fascinating to visit Captain Yip’s home church website and learn that they are using the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. I wonder if how that works with their evangelism efforts. I would like to see more on that.
This is, ultimately THE issue in all our disputes. How do we in good conscience invite those who are unchurched to “Meet Jesus” under the auspices of our present dilemma? Under the auspices of our present HOB? I must admit, as strongly as I feel that God leads and we simply try to stay out of His way in evangelizing, I still feel a tug against inviting people into our morass of disagreement. Ultimately, I can feel the Evil One at work in all this.
Chrisitianity after all, is the acceptance of Conscription in the Army of God. It is the acknowledgement of the fact that Yes, Martha, we are in a war, and Yes, it is worth dying for. That’s not exactly a marketable message in this day and age, but it IS to those who take the time to look inside themselves and see the Battle raging. At that point they know that they will have to decide where to stand, and the only stance that makes sense in light of the faith we have inherited is the reasserter position. To me, a “safe house” guarded by +++ABC within TEC for reasserter churches will simplify this task greatly.
But that doesn’t make connecting the dots, and then showing someone else how to do the same, any fun. Like I tell my kids all the time, “fair” is a human invention akin to “utopia”, which means, as we know, “no place.”
KTF!….mrb
If only such a “safe house” were in the cards. I don’t think TEC will go for it; in fact, the HOB has already emphatically refused the proposal. Waiting until Sept. 30 is just procedural. The outcome is assured, unless something dramatic and miraculous occurs.
I left my local radical TEC diocese when I realized that (a) I couldn’t put money on the offering plate to support un-Christian initiatives in the diocese and national church and (b) I didn’t feel right about bringing a neighbor who was experiencing a conversion to my parish.
Katherine writes, “I didn’t feel right about bringing a neighbor who was experiencing a conversion to my parish.” I am in a wonderful parish and have a wonderful rector (for two more weeks), wonderful asst rector (for a couple of months more) and then???, but I feel exactly the same. I was wondering to where did you flee?
Those of you who know me know that I have stood firm for Jesus Christ through this all. I was an eyewitness to the first “election” and the birth of the Network. I support the Network, the Global South, and all people who stand firm for Christ no matter what.
But my own personal decision – based on much prayer and firmly believing I was in obedience to my Lord – was to worship non-denominational for the time being. That was 3.5 years ago, and I have not regretted it. Last week I invited an un-churched young man to join us. No reservations about what he would see there, and there is a good chance he could come to Christ there.
That doesn’t mean my own decision was right for everyone. But if each of us genuinely carries out, in obedience, what the Lord has for us to do, He will be pleased with us all. I’m not too sure He is pleased with Dr. Radner for publicly leaving the Network. It would have been better for all had he resigned quietly, and less publicly.
robroy, not wanting to leave what Dr. Toon calls “the Anglican Way,” I visited non-TEC Anglican parishes in my area, and chose what seemed to me the best parish available at the time. My rector, a full-time banker and a part-time priest, offers more in the way of adult education and Bible study than did my previous TEC rector, plus excellent preaching. There are now several other parishes of various affiliations. My parish may or may not stick with its current Continuing affiliation depending upon the results in the next few months. I am praying for a unified effort that will accomodate both soon-to-be-ex Episcopalians, recently ex-Episcopalians, and Common Cause Extra-mural Anglicans. I’m convinced it’s the right movement at the right time.
This is, ultimately THE issue in all our disputes. How do we in good conscience invite those who are unchurched to “Meet Jesus†under the auspices of our present dilemma? Under the auspices of our present HOB? I must admit, as strongly as I feel that God leads and we simply try to stay out of His way in evangelizing, I still feel a tug against inviting people into our morass of disagreement. Ultimately, I can feel the Evil One at work in all this.
Bingo. As one who is current paddling across the Tiber, I naturally have enthusiasim for my journey but it is not driven by a hatred for what I am leaving. I can say with certainly that the RCIA course in which I am presently enrolled in contains little in the way of “theo-talk” between dissenting organizational elements of the Roman Catholic Church, rather it centers on controversial issues only to the extent that they deal with the character of the bible, religious history, the nature of salvation, grace etc. While we may not all agree on Catholic teachings in these areas, it is nevertheless true that for the unchurched, the “evangelism” of Catholicism is (and will likely continue to be) a much better alternative than TEC, although there are pockets of TEC with faithful and orthodox clergy, good teaching , preaching, fellowship and all of the other ingredients that make one want to associate with any church. But I fear as the national reputation of TEC continues to decline, such churches will become more and more rare and the overall evangelistic possibilties of TEC will be limited to those groups that they have pandered to over the past 20 or so years.
If only such a “safe house†were in the cards.
Supposing there was a “safe house” within TEC. Would I trust? Would I feel assured that the ilk wouldn’t creep through the walls and under the door jam? I appreciate all those who are trying to build such a house, but know I would never Trust……….that which would still be within TEC.
If, as we expect, TEC stays on course, and, as is beginning to seem very likely, the ABC does nothing, then isn’t the question going to be asked, “Is there a safe house in the Anglican Communion?”
robroy – you can always check out the CEC… The Charismatic Episcopal Church exists to make visible the Kingdom of God to the nations of the world; to bring the rich sacramental and liturgical life of the early church to searching evangelicals and charismatics; to carry the power of Pentecost to our brothers and sisters in the historic churches; and finally, to provide a home for all Christians who seek a liturgical-sacramental, evangelical, charismatic church and a foundation for their lives and gifts of ministry. The Charismatic Episcopal Church is not and has never been affiliated with the Episcopal Church USA or the Anglican Communion.
T
It’s fascinating to visit Captain Yip’s home church website and learn that they are using the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. I wonder if how that works with their evangelism efforts. I would like to see more on that.