Even given what one presumes is a heavy evangelical Protestant bias in this selection, it’s striking how poorly the mainline is represented. But the inclusion of some United Methodist churches and a PCUSA church suggests this wasn’t a deliberate snub: it’s just that most mainline churches aren’t having the same degree of influence. It is surprising some large Anglican parishes (like Plano, Truro, Falls Church) didn’t make the list. Also surprising is the lack of any Lutheran (of any flavor) churches. But not surprising is the lack of ECUSA churches. Those that have influence still just aren’t big enough for this list, I suppose.
Trinity Church is listed at #48. I had to [url=http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/]check to see whether they go by Trinity Episcopal — they don’t[/url].
Interesting that this is the July 2006 report — is this the most current? Apparently so.
The 2005 list is [url=http://www.thecronline.com/mag_article.php?mid=36&type=year]here[/url] and the National Cathedral was listed at 16, St. Margaret in Palm Desert, CA was 32 and TrinityWS was 49.
Wow, I did not find a single Roman Catholic. Also none of the little parishes around Capital Hill … hmmm. Oh well, I guess we’ll keep on preaching the Gospel to rich and poor, powerful and weak & rejoice in our non-celebrity priest the Lord gave us and in Jesus our Christ.
This list seems to have a close connection to the business world’s definition of success, which isn’t all bad. “Influence” is a tricky thing to measure, and more so when speaking of Christianity, in which God has chosen the simple to confound the wise. But often enough, it’s the less visible, less “successful” that have the real influence where it really counts, before the Throne of God.
Here is something you may want to know about the source of this list:
Rising Evangelical Star Jason Christy Leaves Trail of Fraud, Associates Say
By Hannah Elliott
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. Aug. 1 /ABP/ — When young, charismatic Christian publisher Jason Christy was tapped two years ago to lead the powerful Christian Coalition, the group’s leaders praised him for his ability “to inspire and encourage people of faith to action.” But Christy’s business dealings — both before and after his one-month affiliation with the Coalition — instead have inspired former customers and co-workers to file lawsuits charging Christy with defrauding their Christian businesses.
Christy, 36, who apparently had no previous public-policy experience, persuaded the Christian Coalition in 2005 to place him in one of the most visible and powerful positions in evangelical life. But before the coalition’s leaders officially turned over the reins of their 1.2 million-member national lobbying group, they learned of a trail of legal and financial problems that has followed Christy from coast to coast.
Former associates and customers of Christy’s many business ventures — mostly Christian magazines — say he cheated them out of money and threatened them. At least 10 of them have filed lawsuits, Associated Baptist Press has learned, and others have gotten court-issued restraining or protection orders against the Scottsdale, Ariz., businessman.
Christy says all the allegations are false. He and his supporters say “enemies” are spreading lies about him because of soured business relationships. But critics say Christy is a scam artist preying on trusting Christians.
Christy now publishes The Church Report, supposedly a conservative, national print magazine and web site. He has appeared as an analyst on CNN and spoken at megachurches like Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral. He hob-nobs with some of the evangelical elite and still has relationships with leaders in highly respected positions, like the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.
I wonder what the average age of the church is. I suspect that the vast majority are less then 30 years old. Contrast that to Episcopalians, who ‘pride’ themselves on the age of their churches – perhaps Episcopal Churches are more museum then center of worship.
The one Episcopal parish listed, Trinity on Wall Street in Manhattan, has the dubious distinction of having had Samuel Johnson Howard serve as rector before becoming Bishop of Florida.
I’m glad someone pointed out this was last year’s list. Ted Haggard and Jerry Falwell I think have left their congregations since then. Although I would expect that only Falwell’s church will remain as an influential congregation in the future.
As to the age of the churches, from what I can gather it is a mixed group above and below 30 years old. The number 1, Willow Creek, IIRC is 35 this year. Number 2 Saddleback is 27. Both Mars Hill churches, (Mark Driscoll, Seattle; Rob Bell, Michigan) are between 10-15 years old. Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis is well over 100 years old. So I’m not certain age has much to do with this.
What does strike me is how many of these congregations do main campus-satellite campus with video feeds every Sunday. At least one of them, Life Church (Craig Groeschel) is nationwide with its video stream.
I’m almost positive that kind of liturgical model would never work for RC, Anglican or Lutheran churches. Thus their influence is very much a local community affair, in spite of any potential impact a particular congregation has within its denomination.
Watching Mass on TV doesn’t satisfy the Sunday obligation, although I believe that closed circuit TV at the parish does. I recently attended a diocesan Mass via CCTV and found it acceptable given the occasion (priestly ordinations of 4 men), but can’t imagine it Sunday after Sunday.
The posse here may not like Trinity, but it is on the list and without the Episcopal moniker. Where’d all our influence go? Did it exit with the membership?
Oh, I forgot – Dr. Evans’ Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, and Bp Jakes’ Potters House are really fine churches. The often maligned on these pages anyway, Joel Osteen made a good showing, good for Lakewood. I think the lack of anglican institutions is telling – seems like we are all just sitting around the campfire gossiping about each other and the archbishop of canterbury when we ought to be evangelizing.
“Other older mainline churches include the Episcopal Trinity Church (Manhattan, N.Y.) ” states the article…there’s two of them? Help me out, here, please.
# 18 & 19:
Yes, it is Trinity Wall Street. cf. the mug shot and name with the staff page on Trinity Wall Street’s web site. In addition to the fact that there’s no other Trinity Church in Manhattan that could possibly be on the list.
In regards to the Church on the list from the low country, Seacoast church–I know that they are about to launch a campus in Asheville NC, my old stomping grounds. Right now they seem to be planning on calling it “Seacoast church” as well–have to say that causes a bit of logical dissonance for me.
Also, when I went to the Leadnow conference in DC in May I heard Donald Millar speak–he used this as an illustration of how our churches have become driven by a celebrity model…what do you see first? The big ole poster pic of the celebrity pastor, much larger than the name of the church and other info. The only pastor to not have their picture in the article is Tim Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian in NY–I wonder if it was intentional… and if so, I applaud him.
#3 and #16,
Don’t make much of the fact that Trinity Wall Street does not use “Episcopal” in its name, as almost none of the big and/or well-known NY churches have ever done so: St. Thomas Fifth Avenue, St. Bartholomew’s Church, St. James’ Church, Church of St. Mary the Virgin, Church of the Heavenly Rest, Church of the Transfiguration, etc.
Even given what one presumes is a heavy evangelical Protestant bias in this selection, it’s striking how poorly the mainline is represented. But the inclusion of some United Methodist churches and a PCUSA church suggests this wasn’t a deliberate snub: it’s just that most mainline churches aren’t having the same degree of influence. It is surprising some large Anglican parishes (like Plano, Truro, Falls Church) didn’t make the list. Also surprising is the lack of any Lutheran (of any flavor) churches. But not surprising is the lack of ECUSA churches. Those that have influence still just aren’t big enough for this list, I suppose.
Read again VaAnglican, Trinity Wall Street is on the list. However, this is most definitely a list of dubious distinction.. Strange bedfellows indeed.
Trinity Church is listed at #48. I had to [url=http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/]check to see whether they go by Trinity Episcopal — they don’t[/url].
Interesting that this is the July 2006 report — is this the most current? Apparently so.
The 2005 list is [url=http://www.thecronline.com/mag_article.php?mid=36&type=year]here[/url] and the National Cathedral was listed at 16, St. Margaret in Palm Desert, CA was 32 and TrinityWS was 49.
Wow, I did not find a single Roman Catholic. Also none of the little parishes around Capital Hill … hmmm. Oh well, I guess we’ll keep on preaching the Gospel to rich and poor, powerful and weak & rejoice in our non-celebrity priest the Lord gave us and in Jesus our Christ.
I hope that the authors take a good look at Advent, Birmingham, the next time they compile this list (disclosure: this is my home parish)
This list seems to have a close connection to the business world’s definition of success, which isn’t all bad. “Influence” is a tricky thing to measure, and more so when speaking of Christianity, in which God has chosen the simple to confound the wise. But often enough, it’s the less visible, less “successful” that have the real influence where it really counts, before the Throne of God.
Hmm. I wonder why the Crystal Cathedal is not listed?
Here is something you may want to know about the source of this list:
Rising Evangelical Star Jason Christy Leaves Trail of Fraud, Associates Say
By Hannah Elliott
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. Aug. 1 /ABP/ — When young, charismatic Christian publisher Jason Christy was tapped two years ago to lead the powerful Christian Coalition, the group’s leaders praised him for his ability “to inspire and encourage people of faith to action.” But Christy’s business dealings — both before and after his one-month affiliation with the Coalition — instead have inspired former customers and co-workers to file lawsuits charging Christy with defrauding their Christian businesses.
Christy, 36, who apparently had no previous public-policy experience, persuaded the Christian Coalition in 2005 to place him in one of the most visible and powerful positions in evangelical life. But before the coalition’s leaders officially turned over the reins of their 1.2 million-member national lobbying group, they learned of a trail of legal and financial problems that has followed Christy from coast to coast.
Former associates and customers of Christy’s many business ventures — mostly Christian magazines — say he cheated them out of money and threatened them. At least 10 of them have filed lawsuits, Associated Baptist Press has learned, and others have gotten court-issued restraining or protection orders against the Scottsdale, Ariz., businessman.
Christy says all the allegations are false. He and his supporters say “enemies” are spreading lies about him because of soured business relationships. But critics say Christy is a scam artist preying on trusting Christians.
Christy now publishes The Church Report, supposedly a conservative, national print magazine and web site. He has appeared as an analyst on CNN and spoken at megachurches like Robert Schuller’s Crystal Cathedral. He hob-nobs with some of the evangelical elite and still has relationships with leaders in highly respected positions, like the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.
This article is continued at Associated Baptist Press News: http://www.abpnews.com/2685.article
Also at The Baptist Standard: http://www.baptiststandard.com/postnuke/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=6646 and
Christianity Today: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/augustweb-only/131-35.0.html and
The Christian Century: http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=3584
I wonder what the average age of the church is. I suspect that the vast majority are less then 30 years old. Contrast that to Episcopalians, who ‘pride’ themselves on the age of their churches – perhaps Episcopal Churches are more museum then center of worship.
The one Episcopal parish listed, Trinity on Wall Street in Manhattan, has the dubious distinction of having had Samuel Johnson Howard serve as rector before becoming Bishop of Florida.
I’m glad someone pointed out this was last year’s list. Ted Haggard and Jerry Falwell I think have left their congregations since then. Although I would expect that only Falwell’s church will remain as an influential congregation in the future.
As to the age of the churches, from what I can gather it is a mixed group above and below 30 years old. The number 1, Willow Creek, IIRC is 35 this year. Number 2 Saddleback is 27. Both Mars Hill churches, (Mark Driscoll, Seattle; Rob Bell, Michigan) are between 10-15 years old. Bethlehem Baptist in Minneapolis is well over 100 years old. So I’m not certain age has much to do with this.
What does strike me is how many of these congregations do main campus-satellite campus with video feeds every Sunday. At least one of them, Life Church (Craig Groeschel) is nationwide with its video stream.
I’m almost positive that kind of liturgical model would never work for RC, Anglican or Lutheran churches. Thus their influence is very much a local community affair, in spite of any potential impact a particular congregation has within its denomination.
Watching Mass on TV doesn’t satisfy the Sunday obligation, although I believe that closed circuit TV at the parish does. I recently attended a diocesan Mass via CCTV and found it acceptable given the occasion (priestly ordinations of 4 men), but can’t imagine it Sunday after Sunday.
I’m rather surprised that Christ Church, Plano isn’t on the list.
Things that strikes me is the very small number of black (or, indeed Latino) faces. Comments, please.
KAR, I think the article said they were only looking at non-Catholic churches, so that explains why.
The posse here may not like Trinity, but it is on the list and without the Episcopal moniker. Where’d all our influence go? Did it exit with the membership?
Oh, I forgot – Dr. Evans’ Oak Cliff Bible Fellowship, and Bp Jakes’ Potters House are really fine churches. The often maligned on these pages anyway, Joel Osteen made a good showing, good for Lakewood. I think the lack of anglican institutions is telling – seems like we are all just sitting around the campfire gossiping about each other and the archbishop of canterbury when we ought to be evangelizing.
Hello?!!! That is NOT Trinity Wall Street on the list. Read the article!
“Other older mainline churches include the Episcopal Trinity Church (Manhattan, N.Y.) ” states the article…there’s two of them? Help me out, here, please.
# 18 & 19:
Yes, it is Trinity Wall Street. cf. the mug shot and name with the staff page on Trinity Wall Street’s web site. In addition to the fact that there’s no other Trinity Church in Manhattan that could possibly be on the list.
In regards to the Church on the list from the low country, Seacoast church–I know that they are about to launch a campus in Asheville NC, my old stomping grounds. Right now they seem to be planning on calling it “Seacoast church” as well–have to say that causes a bit of logical dissonance for me.
Also, when I went to the Leadnow conference in DC in May I heard Donald Millar speak–he used this as an illustration of how our churches have become driven by a celebrity model…what do you see first? The big ole poster pic of the celebrity pastor, much larger than the name of the church and other info. The only pastor to not have their picture in the article is Tim Keller at Redeemer Presbyterian in NY–I wonder if it was intentional… and if so, I applaud him.
#3 and #16,
Don’t make much of the fact that Trinity Wall Street does not use “Episcopal” in its name, as almost none of the big and/or well-known NY churches have ever done so: St. Thomas Fifth Avenue, St. Bartholomew’s Church, St. James’ Church, Church of St. Mary the Virgin, Church of the Heavenly Rest, Church of the Transfiguration, etc.