Bearing on the church’s position is a recent study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Sciences that concluded: “Intuiting God’s beliefs on important issues may not produce an independent guide, but may instead serve as an echo chamber to validate and justify (a Christian’s) own beliefs.” In bumper sticker phraseology: “I said it; God believes it; that settles it.”
This phenomenon contributes to a nasty situation when the individual’s physical rejection of homosexuality or abortion — to name two — become, as the eminent philosopher Martha Nussbaum puts it, projective disgust toward others. This leads to regarding a group of people as inferior or evil, even to the point of wanting to kill or maim them.
You know I don’t really care what non-believers think about God and God’s ways.
We had a rector in the ’90s who was big on this – Jungian psychology. If we felt that anything the church was doing was objectionable – like giving a presentation on the merits of abortion – then we were projecting our “shadow side” on others and should be ashamed. Often the people promoting this technique have a fairly recognizable “shadow side” of their own.
The author has it backwards. The bumper sticker approach is what the current ECUSA leadership has done. It feels good to me, therefore it is good.
“This phenomenon contributes to a nasty situation when the individual’s physical rejection of homosexuality or abortion — to name two — become, as the eminent philosopher Martha Nussbaum puts it, projective disgust toward others.”
Bad grammar probably makes me feel the most disgust.
Generally less “disgust” than proponents of either of those activities hold for me and my positions.
There’s surely a deep irony in this piece, in that TEC has rather consistently “intuited” novel disciplines and doctrines that “echo” the prevailing views of a certain section of contemporary American culture. Something has gone wrong in spiritual formation when folks think it reasonable and persuasive to argue that Scripture can be dismissed simply because they suggest it is “icky”.
I have little doubt that the devil calls some people to the priesthood. We’ve certainly seen it – not only in Anglicanism, but also in the other branches of Christianity.
The proper bumper sticker is:
“God said it; I believe it; that settles it.”
The reason why this person is challenging is that God tends to believe and affirm what we already believe.
It’s actually worthwhile warning the Episcopal Church on that, although it’s something traditionalists might learn as well. Which is why both of us could use a little more humility and trust each other a bit more, rather than presume each one of us has the right God.
Ralph (in #7)…just a friendly suggestion, but nonetheless important correction to your bumper sticker. It seems to me that it should read thus: “God said it; that settles it. I believe it.”
John (#8)
In the current presenting issue – the appropriateness of same sex blessings – the traditionalists can cite Church teaching and Holy Scripture for evidence that homosexual sex is sinful. It is not that I find homosexual sex disgusting, but rather that God’s self-revelation says that such acts are not part of His design and are sinful.
Can you show me any traditional or sciptural support for your position that God blesses homosexual sex?
Yes, we need more humility when approaching God and learning God’s will. But it is not the reasserters who are intent on changing what the Church teaches. It seems that the reappraisers are all saying “everyone is out of step except us!” If that is not the definition of pride, then I don’t know what is.”
Humility begins with the understanding that I could be wrong and that truth is external to oneself, not whatever one “feels” to be right.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
It is not a stretch to take a word usually rendered as “abominable” and translate that as “disgusting.” God finds certain behaviors disgusting.
The writer says that no one should interfere with God’s calling and that the calling itself is indicative of God’s desire for that person to be in ministry. Overall, I would agree. However, I hear less about a “calling” and much more about “my right” to ordination coming from this particular group. And this is problematic for me.
Far be it for me to dissect whom God calls to ordained ministry but I do become alarmed when I hear said ministers emphasizing their rights, civil rights, and their special interest group’s rights when it comes to ordination. Claiming “rights” is political speak and becomes to the realm of secular administration. A “calling” belongs to a spiritual realm. Claiming “rights” usually involves special interest groups, demonstrations, court battles and protest. A “calling” must be quietly and deeply discerned — it’s not about promoting the individual or special interest group but, rather, about whether the individual can serve God and others selflessly and uphold the doctrine of the Church. This requires humility.
I’m afraid that I don’t see much humility or a dedication to selfless service to ALL in God’s Church coming from this special interest group. VGR claims that God speaks to him, even told him that he was God’s “beloved son,” but it’s odd how God always seems to agree and fully validate VGR. I know that God’s reminded me often to be humble and He has even kicked my butt on many occasions when I’ve needed it.
And the signs are there that God has had something to say to VGR and his group, too, but they refuse to see it, acknowledge it, or even seriously consider that with all of the havoc going on around them and because of them, they might have gotten it wrong. I’m sorry, but I don’t see that they’re all about a “calling” as much as they are “their rights.” And these are two vastly different things.
Do I believe that God calls homosexuals to ministry? Yeah, I do. But I submit that those whom He calls understand that to answer His call will require some very poignant sacrifices and that it’s not about “rights.” It’s about serving God’s people.
I suppose the writer would accuse me of exactly the thing he finds so vexing. But as I watch the Church I love crumbling around us; as I read about faithful clergy and laity having to make difficult decisions; and as I continue to see this special interest group in “self-congratulation” mode, focusing on their “rights,” I don’t believe I have to ascribe to God what I think and I wouldn’t do that anyway. Anyone who isn’t part of the special interest group or its ardent supporters has experienced the fallout and actually CARES.
Just some more warmed-over drivel espousing “I think, therefore IAM”.