While the letter is most congenial and Christian in spirit, I’ve personally been through this process and found that congeniality and Christian spirit, even in an ACN diocese, can and does evaporate overnight.
I will add the good people of St. Clement’s to my prayers. Unfortunately +Steenson and the Diocese of the Rio Grande are not at the line waiting for the starter’s pistol in the upcoming sprint.
Because I respect the spiritual integrity of St. Clement’s as a vibrant Christian community, I will not pursue a “divide and conquer†strategy that has been used elsewhere to isolate the so-called “dissidents.â€
What would happen if a congregation and their priest continued to worship in the church buildings as always but stopped tithing to the church and instead set up a corporation or trust to which they donated their tithes?
I’d like to see all the mainstream parishes tell the bishops, “Hey, if we don’t own the property, we’re not paying the mortgage/rent, utilities or maintenance costs. You should begin receiving the bills soon.”
Bishop Steenson is a wonderful and Godly man…he will do his best to see that St. Clements is treated fairly. I wished that more Bishops displayed the love and faithfulness that he has for those within his Diocese.
It should be a fair market value buy-out, but paid back over 100 years. That’s fair and would prevent bankrupting the parish family to what it needs to do.
I’m sure all bishops have been read the Riot Act at this point.
One small point; there was talk at GC2006 of merging Louisiana and Western Louisiana for fiscal and other reasons. Part of this stems from the creation of the two Dioceses in the first place; more conservative Western Louisiana was tired of sending money to more liberal New Orleans. Of the talk of the merger stems from the fiscal difficulties the Diocese of Louisiana was having post-Katrina. Frankly, the Diocese of Louisiana is not in a position to leave the Episcopal Church post-Katrina – not spiritually or fiscally – in my opinion.
Having read much of what’s been written by B. Steenson and published, it is all to obvious that 815 is exerting tremedous pressure on the dissident bishops. Probably threats of presentment (and they have the votes) if there are more friendly, negotiated departures like Christ Church K.C. and Plano. I think the election of PB Schori brought about their “taking off the gloves” as to such solutions. I can’t imagine Steenson authoring such a letter except under extreme duress.+
Or, perhaps, #9, +Steenson (who confirmed me, for the record) actually takes his vows before God to obey the Constitution and Canons of TEC seriously, as opposed to something to be weaseled around and out of…
Baptist congregation-A decides to breakoff from Baptist congregation-B and form their own church and eventually their own “convention.” On the way out they decide to take some hymnals, stained glass windows, a few choir robes and all of the pew cushions. Maybe even some pews.
Is that theft from congregation-B or is it their right to take it “because they paid a portion of it” with their gifts to the church?
Is a gift to the glory of God and the church refundable? This is where I get troubled by the “its my property and I’ll take it if I want to” attitude I see here. Why not just leave with dignity by leaving all claim to property and with the honor of your convictions?
I grew up at St. Clement’s, as did at least one other regular reader of this blog, and I am horrified at the haste with which my former parish is leaving one of the strongest reasserter jurisdictions in the country. I have written a [b]very[/b] long email to my mother about this. As one of the most-tenured members of the congregation, she is in tears about this, as it will not only pull her church home for 48 years out from under her, but will provide her with hardly any mainstream alternatives. (Note: I will forward the email here if there is any interest.)
This is a remarkably sympathetic and responsible letter. I must say, I am impressed. He was clear without being threatening. He does indeed have a responsibility regardless of his own opinions and he intends to carry out tht responsibility. We could all use more of this medicine. Larry
By all indications a significant realignment of the AC is just around the corner. What prompts St. Clements to take this action at this time? It puts their bishop in a difficult position that could be avoided by waiting a few months.
Dale Rye, if you can share more about your mother’s situation, why does St. Clement’s withdrawing from TEC “pull her church out from under her?” Does her commitment to the institution of TEC outweigh her commitment to the parish, to her friends, to the ministries she participates in, to her rector, etc? If its too personal to go into detail about, in general terms, why would ANYONE feel such a strong loyalty to the institution that would supersede these other factors?
I don’t get why such a parish wants to leave a like-minded diocese in order to link up with a like-minded foreign diocese. Wouldn’t it be better to stick with +Rio Grande. I mean, what IS the point. It’s sort of like driving to the next town to go to WalMart. What do they have that the hometown store doesn’t have? My same question applies to e.g. Christ Church, Plano, TX, et al. I just don’t get it.
There may be advantages to having a conservative Bishop remain at the helm of a TEC diocese from which he can negotiate favorable departures by the conservative congregations. The Bishop retains the ability to leave and the threat of said departure could keep the wolves at bay. Once the sheep are clear of course a Bishop could retire and rejoin his flock. 🙂
Patrick B
He also pledge an oath to the faith once delivered – which one should he follow if he concludes that they cannot both be followed?
His other option would be resignation and abandonment of his flock?
If a Bishop concludes that he cannot serve God and the TEC he should choose God and abandoment of the flock cannot be the rigtht answer.
While the letter is most congenial and Christian in spirit, I’ve personally been through this process and found that congeniality and Christian spirit, even in an ACN diocese, can and does evaporate overnight.
I will add the good people of St. Clement’s to my prayers. Unfortunately +Steenson and the Diocese of the Rio Grande are not at the line waiting for the starter’s pistol in the upcoming sprint.
Because I respect the spiritual integrity of St. Clement’s as a vibrant Christian community, I will not pursue a “divide and conquer†strategy that has been used elsewhere to isolate the so-called “dissidents.â€
Ouch.
What would happen if a congregation and their priest continued to worship in the church buildings as always but stopped tithing to the church and instead set up a corporation or trust to which they donated their tithes?
I’d like to see all the mainstream parishes tell the bishops, “Hey, if we don’t own the property, we’re not paying the mortgage/rent, utilities or maintenance costs. You should begin receiving the bills soon.”
Bishop Steenson is a wonderful and Godly man…he will do his best to see that St. Clements is treated fairly. I wished that more Bishops displayed the love and faithfulness that he has for those within his Diocese.
It should be a fair market value buy-out, but paid back over 100 years. That’s fair and would prevent bankrupting the parish family to what it needs to do.
I’m sure all bishops have been read the Riot Act at this point.
One small point; there was talk at GC2006 of merging Louisiana and Western Louisiana for fiscal and other reasons. Part of this stems from the creation of the two Dioceses in the first place; more conservative Western Louisiana was tired of sending money to more liberal New Orleans. Of the talk of the merger stems from the fiscal difficulties the Diocese of Louisiana was having post-Katrina. Frankly, the Diocese of Louisiana is not in a position to leave the Episcopal Church post-Katrina – not spiritually or fiscally – in my opinion.
Ooops. I meant to post that on the Jenkins thread…
Having read much of what’s been written by B. Steenson and published, it is all to obvious that 815 is exerting tremedous pressure on the dissident bishops. Probably threats of presentment (and they have the votes) if there are more friendly, negotiated departures like Christ Church K.C. and Plano. I think the election of PB Schori brought about their “taking off the gloves” as to such solutions. I can’t imagine Steenson authoring such a letter except under extreme duress.+
#9, pray tell, what’s the matter with the letter?
Or, perhaps, #9, +Steenson (who confirmed me, for the record) actually takes his vows before God to obey the Constitution and Canons of TEC seriously, as opposed to something to be weaseled around and out of…
Baptist congregation-A decides to breakoff from Baptist congregation-B and form their own church and eventually their own “convention.” On the way out they decide to take some hymnals, stained glass windows, a few choir robes and all of the pew cushions. Maybe even some pews.
Is that theft from congregation-B or is it their right to take it “because they paid a portion of it” with their gifts to the church?
Is a gift to the glory of God and the church refundable? This is where I get troubled by the “its my property and I’ll take it if I want to” attitude I see here. Why not just leave with dignity by leaving all claim to property and with the honor of your convictions?
I grew up at St. Clement’s, as did at least one other regular reader of this blog, and I am horrified at the haste with which my former parish is leaving one of the strongest reasserter jurisdictions in the country. I have written a [b]very[/b] long email to my mother about this. As one of the most-tenured members of the congregation, she is in tears about this, as it will not only pull her church home for 48 years out from under her, but will provide her with hardly any mainstream alternatives. (Note: I will forward the email here if there is any interest.)
This is a remarkably sympathetic and responsible letter. I must say, I am impressed. He was clear without being threatening. He does indeed have a responsibility regardless of his own opinions and he intends to carry out tht responsibility. We could all use more of this medicine. Larry
By all indications a significant realignment of the AC is just around the corner. What prompts St. Clements to take this action at this time? It puts their bishop in a difficult position that could be avoided by waiting a few months.
Dale Rye, if you can share more about your mother’s situation, why does St. Clement’s withdrawing from TEC “pull her church out from under her?” Does her commitment to the institution of TEC outweigh her commitment to the parish, to her friends, to the ministries she participates in, to her rector, etc? If its too personal to go into detail about, in general terms, why would ANYONE feel such a strong loyalty to the institution that would supersede these other factors?
I don’t get why such a parish wants to leave a like-minded diocese in order to link up with a like-minded foreign diocese. Wouldn’t it be better to stick with +Rio Grande. I mean, what IS the point. It’s sort of like driving to the next town to go to WalMart. What do they have that the hometown store doesn’t have? My same question applies to e.g. Christ Church, Plano, TX, et al. I just don’t get it.
There may be advantages to having a conservative Bishop remain at the helm of a TEC diocese from which he can negotiate favorable departures by the conservative congregations. The Bishop retains the ability to leave and the threat of said departure could keep the wolves at bay. Once the sheep are clear of course a Bishop could retire and rejoin his flock. 🙂
Dear Ian+
The Episcopal “brand” is anathema to traditional Christians. Once out of TEC the Church can grow.
Patrick B
He also pledge an oath to the faith once delivered – which one should he follow if he concludes that they cannot both be followed?
His other option would be resignation and abandonment of his flock?
If a Bishop concludes that he cannot serve God and the TEC he should choose God and abandoment of the flock cannot be the rigtht answer.