In a move likely to raise tensions between the two Churches, a group of Church of England bishops met last week with advisers of Pope Benedict XVI to set in motion steps that would allow priests to convert to Catholicism en masse.
They are set to resign their orders in opposition to the introduction of women bishops and to lead an exodus of Anglican clerics to the Catholic Church despite Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, urging them not to leave.
It would be the first time for nearly 20 years that large numbers of priests have crossed from the Church of England to Rome, and comes only weeks ahead of a crucial General Synod debate on making women bishops.
The Sunday Telegraph has learnt that bishops travelled to the Holy See last week to hold face to face discussions with senior members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the most powerful of the Vatican’s departments.
I certainly wouldn’t interpret the Pope’s offer as anthing like “poaching.” But it is highly ironic (and tragic) that there seems to be more concern and solicitude for the welfare of conservative Anglo-Catholic clergy in Rome than at Lambeth Palace. There’s sure lots of gossip and speculation running rampant, especially about how many CoE clergy will “defect,” but doubtless much will come to light, sooner or later, and probably sooner.
As I understand it (and I’m happy to be corrected if I’m wrong), the Ordinariat plan only allows for one bishop per country, and so even if +John Broadhurst, +Keith Newton, and +Andrew Burnham are all prepared to depart for Rome, it seems that only one of them would be appointed to lead the Ordinariat in Great Britain, presumably Broadhurst. I find it very plausible that all three men would swim the Tiber. The real question is, how many clergy and laity would go with them??
David Handy+
I can’t believe Anglo Catholic clergy have lost faith in the in the ABC. I mean he has been so supportive of others….
What do the ASA numbers look like for the CoE since RW took office? Is there a parallel with TEC since KJS took office?
Actually none of them will be bishops as they are all married and despite allowing married priests the Ordinariate does not do the same for the office of bishop. I am led to believe that this is due to the sensitive negotiations between Rome and the Eastern Orthodox taking place at the moment. (We are effectivly taking on the Orthodox model if one thinks about it)
However because the Vatican is gracious it will allow any and all converting bishops to retain the external symbols of the Episcopate (the mitre, crozier, etc) and will allow them special permission to carry out functions such as confirmation.
The Ordinary can be anyone and need not be a bishop. So the identity of the Head of this emerging ‘Anglican Catholic’ church is anyone’s guess but the gossips are putting their money on Alan Hopes, a RC convert and all round good guy.
As one of the clergy considering this move with my congregation very seriously (we have set up an Ordinariate Exploration Group) I can share some reflections.
The first is that the reaction of the C of E heirarchy thus far has been most revealing. Far from reaching out to us they actually withdrew the few offers the Revision Committee were considering- making it HARDER for us to stay. What a sign of their clear lack of love for us- the message I keep hearing from liberal sources is ‘go now and take nothing and close the door behind you’.
The second point is that one of the prime reasons for accepting this is that it makes so much sense. We teach the Catechism anyway and being allowed to carry our Anglican culture and patrimony with us makes it so very easy. Furthermore I and many others are so vey tired of swimming against the tide and being cast as negative, backwards looking people. I am 36 years old and have NO desire to spend 30 years languishing on the margins fighting political battles in a quasi-Christian organisation. It is clear my life and gifts are not wanted in the modern PC C of E so I will offer them where they are wanted and might do good. Then I can focus on evangelisation.
I mean who wants to minister in a Church that treats you like garbage (and you would need to experience the disdain to credit it) simply for being faithful to the Gospel and all that the C of E itself once taught? And how can we stay when our vocations have all but died…..would YOU put yourself forward for priesthood in the current situation? The Anglo-Catholic dream is over- praise God he brings it to a wonderful conclusion in a new branch of the true Church Catholic!
Thirdly I would state that the time for the Church of England to show it really wanted us was the day after the Pope made his offer. (Or at any other point in the last two decades) THey should and so easily could have matched it. I would still have gone but it would have been nice. Naturally they will find some fudgy nonsense in July- a little hope that is kicked in to the long grass (prob an extension of the London Plan) but why would we trust them? Last July they broke the promise made in 1992 that we would always have an honoured place in the church and voted to say we were not honoured and that the act of synod would be disolved. Many claimed that it was not right that they honour promises made by a different synod. For me it was that moment that I knew I was off. Fool me once shame on you- fool me twice shame on me!
What is interesting about all this is that the synod of the C of E is exposed for what it is. For years they have told the world we are an awkward mysoginist rump not worthy of provision- now the Pope shows we are worthy of praise. Furthermore synod nsisted it is impossible to provide a sturctural solution- making a church within a church- and then the Pope does exactly that within weeks.
Let those with eyes to see…. but I am well informed that the liberal powers are fuming…
#4 RPP
You are right according to Gledhill, who reckons +Broadbent and the Revision Committee have come up with a………..Code of Practice!
Ruth also reports:
[blockquote]A source told The Times that, even though the code of practice would not come under statutory provision, the top 10 or 12 women being spoken of as future bishops in church circles had already resolved privately to do their utmost to keep traditionalists happy by facilitating the woman-free oversight.[/blockquote]
Since a couple of these 10-12 are claimed to be under-the-radar lesbians, it looks like the plan is to kill two birds with one stone – gay partnered lesbian bishops for the CofE. And then they get upset with the Pope stepping in.
Down the pan we go with Indabadabaman at the helm.
#4. RPP,
Will you be leaving the building(s) behind? If not, will you be sued by the CoE for the buildings? I regret that you folks have decided to go to Rome rather than consider the Global South future of Anglicanism. I do not believe that a new ABC could turn things around for the CoE and understand your frustration. The problem with Rome is that they are a great church on paper but what happens if the next Pope is the same kind of leader as Rowan Williams?
#5. Pageantmaster,
[blockquote]Down the pan we go with Indabadabaman at the helm.[/blockquote] 1. How different is CoE from TEC? 2. What are your plans?
#7 Fr Dale
1. How different is CofE from TEC?
Very different, at the moment.
2. What are your plans?
Short term I am very happy where I am in the CofE, but dismayed by the balls up Rowan and our bishops are making of things.
Long term: Joshua 24:15
#8. Pageantmaster,
[blockquote]Long term: Joshua 24:15[/blockquote]
Plan B is really Plan A.
#9 Fr Dale
Plan A is currently consistent with Plan B and not in conflict. Were this to change, then we would have to see.
I am a cradle Anglican, but in the UK, perhaps like the US, there is a lot of choice, particularly for Evangelicals who are more of a tribe than a denomination [I am not necessarily equating myself with that]. You see on a local level, people opting for the most suitable local church rather than necessarily a denomination, and often it is hard to tell the difference between them. There can be greater variation within a denomination than between them. People as in so many areas of life are increasingly willing to shop around, which means that the traditional loyalties cannot be taken for granted, and if a denomination goes off-message as TEC has gone, it can quickly decline at an exponential increasing rate.
RPP,
Thanks for candidly sharing your moving perspective and experience in such an open way. I’m sorry you’ve been treated and abused so shamefully.
And I happily acknowledge that I stand corrected. +Broadhurst can’t be the English leader of the Ordinariat the way I supposed (#1).
Best wishes. The CoE has lost many outstanidng clergy to Rome over the last 150 years or so, from Cardinals Newman and Manning in the mid 1800s to London’s +Graham Leonard and others in the 1990s. But it’s often said that Vatican II was “Newman’s Council,” and many of those illustrious converts have helped lead to better understanding and relations between Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism over the years. I hope that will also be true with all of you who opt to enter the Ordinariat too, bringing our tow churches even closer together in the future, and hastening the day (even if it’s still far off) when [i]”there will be one flock, one shepherd.”[/i]
David Handy+