All liberals,right? Should not have a problem getting any of those duly elected and consecrated in short order. No doubt, they won’t have to go through the consent process again… that is just for the orthodox among us …. ;0 LOL!
Dan, if you refer to their diocesan website http://www.upepiscopal.org, you’ll see over two dozen parishes spread out in the upper penninsula that are Episcopal. They also have a link for folks to find churches in the area for other Anglican traditions.
Betsy- the “Red Book” link takes you only to those churches and dioceses that are “Episcopal or Anglican” parishes or dioceses of the Episcopal Church, it does not give information on other Anglican traditions. All their heresies aside, the diocese claims to be the one and only legitimate representative of Anglicanism within its borders. The other links provided, unless I have been missing something on the various pages after 3 years of research (including some that was rather thorough and widely distributed at the time of the last consent process) all link to either Episcopal or ELCA entities, or to the various interfaith entities.
Dan- the short answer is that it is the smallest regular diocese in TEC (some of the replacement dioceses are smaller, although I note that for Quincy and Ft Worth, TEC is using 2009 numbers that include all the ACNA congregations). An ASA of just over 600, and membership of 18-1900. Although if you actually view some of the parishes, you will see some pretty suspicious stats- like the parish with a membership of 400 with an ASA of 50- http://pr.dfms.org/study/exports/ParishRPT_20101002_090504.pdf
note that its 400 members generate $60,000 in total plate and pledge.
And then there is this other one, with a membership of 4 and an ASA over 40. It is a summer only chapel, and reports its mid-summer ASA as though it was a 52 week average. http://pr.dfms.org/study/exports/ParishRPT_20101002_090834.pdf
So I am inclined to think both membership and ASA are inflated.
As to the first question, I am not sure the term “liberal” is sufficient. Radical revisionist is probably closer. Rayford Ray is probably the most reasonable of the group of “ministry developers” in the diocese, but he is signatory to the heretical documents that deny tenets of the Creeds and the authority of Scripture (not to mention take shots at the Primates and numerous Anglican doctrines). At this point, some of the other candidates might be described as “slightly left of center” for TEC, but you have to remember that in modern TEC, KJS is in the center, and VGR is considered a traditionalist.
Lest my comment above be taken the wrong way, I should note that while the leadership up here should all be deposed, having openly abandoned the teaching of the church, the few rank and file Episcopalians up here are struggling to maintain a semblance of the old Episcopal Church. All the churches up here depend almost solely on volunteers (take a look at the plate and pledge and you will see only a couple that can support a rector)- so it is a place where those few who attend are heavily involved in the parish. A secondary problem, however, is that they have ordained so many of these volunteers (in some parishes, 20% of the ASA) and given them very little training, and the theology they are trained in is open heresy provided in home study materials from Kevin Thew Forrester, with some addition materials from EDS and CDSP and such places. So, as soon as the current generation of volunteer clergy passes the reins to the next generation, there will be no semblance of the Episcopal Church left- it will be all Thew Forrester, all the time.
1. Well, of course they’re all liberals! Does anyone honestly think a conservative candidate would have a ghost of a chance anywhere in TEC? Not likely!
The folks in Northern Michigan must have a fixation on purple. There last attempt was not well received. And their data are not better in 2009 with only about 1,700 Members, ASA of about 600, and Plate & Pledge of about $650K. And, as in 2008, they again in 2009 do not have a single church with Plate & Pledge of $150K or more. But they are used to long waits. The youngest church in the diocese was founded in 1911. Hope springs eternal. God bless ’em. Statmann
One hopes that whoever the nominee is, the consent process will once again focus on the liturgical, theological and ecclesial innovations within this diocese and what the new bishop-elect proposes to do about it.
All liberals,right? Should not have a problem getting any of those duly elected and consecrated in short order. No doubt, they won’t have to go through the consent process again… that is just for the orthodox among us …. ;0 LOL!
Is N. Michigan big enough to be a diocese? What’s the ASA?
Dan, if you refer to their diocesan website http://www.upepiscopal.org, you’ll see over two dozen parishes spread out in the upper penninsula that are Episcopal. They also have a link for folks to find churches in the area for other Anglican traditions.
Betsy- the “Red Book” link takes you only to those churches and dioceses that are “Episcopal or Anglican” parishes or dioceses of the Episcopal Church, it does not give information on other Anglican traditions. All their heresies aside, the diocese claims to be the one and only legitimate representative of Anglicanism within its borders. The other links provided, unless I have been missing something on the various pages after 3 years of research (including some that was rather thorough and widely distributed at the time of the last consent process) all link to either Episcopal or ELCA entities, or to the various interfaith entities.
Dan- the short answer is that it is the smallest regular diocese in TEC (some of the replacement dioceses are smaller, although I note that for Quincy and Ft Worth, TEC is using 2009 numbers that include all the ACNA congregations). An ASA of just over 600, and membership of 18-1900. Although if you actually view some of the parishes, you will see some pretty suspicious stats- like the parish with a membership of 400 with an ASA of 50-
http://pr.dfms.org/study/exports/ParishRPT_20101002_090504.pdf
note that its 400 members generate $60,000 in total plate and pledge.
And then there is this other one, with a membership of 4 and an ASA over 40. It is a summer only chapel, and reports its mid-summer ASA as though it was a 52 week average.
http://pr.dfms.org/study/exports/ParishRPT_20101002_090834.pdf
So I am inclined to think both membership and ASA are inflated.
As to the first question, I am not sure the term “liberal” is sufficient. Radical revisionist is probably closer. Rayford Ray is probably the most reasonable of the group of “ministry developers” in the diocese, but he is signatory to the heretical documents that deny tenets of the Creeds and the authority of Scripture (not to mention take shots at the Primates and numerous Anglican doctrines). At this point, some of the other candidates might be described as “slightly left of center” for TEC, but you have to remember that in modern TEC, KJS is in the center, and VGR is considered a traditionalist.
tjmcmahon, I was *trying* to be polite!
Lest my comment above be taken the wrong way, I should note that while the leadership up here should all be deposed, having openly abandoned the teaching of the church, the few rank and file Episcopalians up here are struggling to maintain a semblance of the old Episcopal Church. All the churches up here depend almost solely on volunteers (take a look at the plate and pledge and you will see only a couple that can support a rector)- so it is a place where those few who attend are heavily involved in the parish. A secondary problem, however, is that they have ordained so many of these volunteers (in some parishes, 20% of the ASA) and given them very little training, and the theology they are trained in is open heresy provided in home study materials from Kevin Thew Forrester, with some addition materials from EDS and CDSP and such places. So, as soon as the current generation of volunteer clergy passes the reins to the next generation, there will be no semblance of the Episcopal Church left- it will be all Thew Forrester, all the time.
1. Well, of course they’re all liberals! Does anyone honestly think a conservative candidate would have a ghost of a chance anywhere in TEC? Not likely!
The folks in Northern Michigan must have a fixation on purple. There last attempt was not well received. And their data are not better in 2009 with only about 1,700 Members, ASA of about 600, and Plate & Pledge of about $650K. And, as in 2008, they again in 2009 do not have a single church with Plate & Pledge of $150K or more. But they are used to long waits. The youngest church in the diocese was founded in 1911. Hope springs eternal. God bless ’em. Statmann
One hopes that whoever the nominee is, the consent process will once again focus on the liturgical, theological and ecclesial innovations within this diocese and what the new bishop-elect proposes to do about it.