A meeting meant for current members of Christ Church drew mostly former parishioners and other local Episcopalians to discuss the decision by leaders of the historic congregation to break away from the national Episcopal Church.
Bishop Henry I. Louttit led a 45-minute question-and-answer session Sunday after a special Mass at St. Paul the Apostle Episcopal Church at 34th and Abercorn streets.
About 150 lay people and priests attended. Many took turns offering words of support to the bishop and the Diocese of Georgia, as well as posing questions about who controls Christ Church’s downtown property.
The bishop assured the group that Christ Church belongs to the diocese and the national Episcopal Church. But taking control of the building, endowment and other assets will involve lawyers, he said.
I see +Louttit wastes little time putting the standard 815 play book into action.
I thought it was significant that we will institute a major lawsuit as a matter of course and provide a priest if 25 people will sign up. They would be better off to rent the chapel. There are a lot of confused folks in Savannah this morning.
I am curious as to how much of this is Bishop Louttit’s idea or 815’s. Could he have worked something out like Bishop Steenson did with St. Clements? Is it church law for the diocese to automatically sue any parish wishing to leave? And what’s with the number 25 before pastoral care is provided. Is that number pulled out of the air? Outside-looking-in.
It is strange that the Bishop of Georgia seems to have no knowledge of what constitutes “the Body of Christ.”
The Bishop of Geogia appears to believe that the “body of Christ” consists of the real estate of his parishes.
He seems to have little concern for the congregants who disagree with his and ECUSA’s leadership.
The real estate will crumble into dust. The real treasure of the Church Catholic consists of the eternal souls of those who devoutly believe in Christ and in “the Faith once given.”
How many people in this diocese will support their contributions being used to sue Christ Church? The diocese does not have deep pockets.
Let me get this straight, if I was elected as the president of my neighborhood association, I can pass a policy that everyone’s home belongs to me? This is great! I will not need any titles or deeds and I don’t have to pay any taxes on the properties until I decide to take control of said properties. What, I can’t do that? What do you mean it against the law? I have to have some legal justification and an “in house policy” doesn’t cover it? What kind of law is this? This use to work in the Middle Ages!
The great irony is that there are 12 Episcopal Churches in Savannah that runt the gamut from very orthodox (St John’s) to very liberal (St Paul’s). None of these Churches are so filled with eager parishioners that there is just not room to jam one more person into Sunday Worship Services.
Christ Church will be voting on Sunday to affirm the decision of the wardens and vestry. Anyone at Christ Church who is unhappy with the outcome of the vote has a range of Episcopal Churches from which to choose with in a reasonable distance.
That Louttit is suing speaks volumes that this is not about pastoral care of faithful Episcopalians, it is about money.
He seems to have little concern for the congregants who disagree with his and ECUSA’s leadership.
Which makes him typical of TEC, yes? Suepie, I’m sure some in the diocese will be sending money to Christ Church.
Apologies, Freudian slip;
#7 should have read “…run the gamut….”
Apparently 25 folks is the expectation for a congregation in GA. One half of the congregations can not support themselves.
What proceeds from the east end of a westward-traveling horse? This bishop’s concern for the Gospel and the spiritual health of God’s people.
I thought the article said there were 150 people present at St. Paul’s. Now the Bishop is hoping 25 people will sign up… Wonder how many of the 150 were put there by the Bishop?
I’m still laughing at the ad for “Yahoojobs” next to the article. It has flames coming up with the words “You’re getting hot.” Prophetic, perhaps?
Amazing how the not-seen-in-years Episcopalians come out of the woodwork when they think the property might actually go to someone who will exercise good stewardship!
The diocese is barely keeping its head above water and cannot afford to lose income. This is causing the Bishop to lay pastoral care aside and go after the money at all cost.
Unless the other parishes in the diocese contribute to the legal battle, 815 will have to bail out the diocese.
I hope 815 might try their legal shenanigans every chance they get. So far most of the first round suing actions were won by the congregations being sued. I don’t think the TEC can stand this financial drain. I wonder how many parishes will designate their funding to the TEC next year???
More lawsuits call attention to the fact that it’s not just a “few” churches leaving. Will it look more like schism to judges?
#12 Note that the 150 included clergy from other churches, disgruntled former members, concerned folks from other churches and present members who were checking this out. I will bet there was not a “fundamentalist” in the room.
[blockquote]The diocese is barely keeping its head above water and cannot afford to lose income. This is causing the Bishop to lay pastoral care aside and go after the money at all cost.
Unless the other parishes in the diocese contribute to the legal battle, 815 will have to bail out the diocese.[/blockquote]
That is precisely what this is all about. The bishops are fighting to maintain their living standards as their congregants vote with their feet and wallets.
To +Louttit and ++Jefforts Schori. This is no way to act when your realm is diminishing like a snowman in the hot sun.
++KJS should show some grace or she will have to drop being known as “Your Grace.”
Thanks, #17. I was wondering how many of the 150 were active members of Christ Church.
Does anyone know if anything ever came from the efforts to discern how much these lawsuits are costing? More importantly, where’s the money coming from?
I think the last question is the important one in this whole mess. Who is paying to legally harass orthodox congregations?
Maryland Brian
The proposed Diocesan budget on their web site shows a $5,000 budget line for “Chancellor.” There is no other mention of legal expenses. It would be interesting to know just how they intend to fund this litigation.
Is it just me or does anyone else find it funny that the Diocese of GA shares their parking lot with “The Pirate’s House”?
gaanglican, don’t you imagine TEC will provide? Darkwing, LOL – is that where the diocese office is? At least good food is close by…
“But taking control of the building, endowment and other assets will involve lawyers, he said.” as opposed to God and scripture.
This is what it seems to be about from TEC’s standpoint.
Well, if lawsuits are so terrible, here’s an alternative proposal. The bishop asks for the keys to the building. He gets denied. Then he goes to the building, breaks a window, goes inside and changes the locks. Presto, the diocese has possession of the church. And, since the conservative congregation is so averse to lawsuits, no police and no lawyers will be called in to settle the matter.
Ha.
Everybody is opposed to lawsuits when they are currently in possession of everything they want.
[blockquote]Everybody is opposed to lawsuits when they are currently in possession of everything they want. [/blockquote]
Or, alternatively, what they have paid for.
One of the local debates involves vows to observe the doctrine and discipline as received by this Church. I do not have a prayer book at hand tonight. Is this the same as what is voted on by General Conention and if so, should the vow be changed? What ever happen to scripture, tradition and reason?
re: post #17: Pb
There were a handful of current Christ Church members present.
…no one could understand our comments as we all now speak Swahili &>
My take on the whole affair
….just think Jerry Springer Lite.
I attended this meeting. There was a whole lot of pain in the room, as many of the people [still Episcopalians] feel their church has been stolen from them. If the ministry of the church is more important than the buildings, why don’t the prophet orthodox strike out on their own and trust God to provided THEM with meeting space? Why do they have to take the church building from the Episcopal Church. The VESTRY and Rector voted to do this. And this is a vestry that it has taken 10 years for the rector to get into place. VERY few former Sr. Wardens are still at Christ Church. Anyone wonder why?
The present leadership of Christ Church is but a blip on the historical radar of that parish. Those who paid for those buildings were Episcopalians, not Ugandans. The problems at Christ Church Uganda are more about changes to that parish over the last 10-12 years than they are about changes in the Episcopal Church.
to Samuel : http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/10_02/earweirdNNP1110_468x335.jpg
hey buddy, if you’ve got so much pain…. hey, we’re all ears.