[STEFAN FATSIS]…Columnists and commentators love to defend righteous acts. But I think there’s more to this conversation.
[MICHELE] NORRIS: More like what?
[STEFAN] FATSIS: Well, these rules, for one thing. We haven’t heard much about whether these rules are applied uniformly across the student body. And it’s also worth noting that Brandon Davies is African-American, and the last two athletes who left their BYU teams for the same reason are of Pacific Island descent. And this is a campus that is overwhelmingly white.
Then you’ve got the stickier subject of whether these rules should maybe be questioned by people outside of the Mormon Church. And finally, I think it bears asking, you know, does BYU’s willingness to shame a 19-year-old in such a public way, is that the best approach, honor code or not?
Read or listen to it all. I happened to catch this yesterday in the car running an errand and what struck me was this phrase: BYU’s willingness to shame a 19-year-old in such a public way. Ah, so this is the university’s fault. Except, hang on now. First, the young man in question signed up for this school knowing the honor code on the front end of his whole undergraduate undertaking. So the possibility of bad consequences is something he already agreed to. Second, the young man is the one who has shamed himself, no?
This reminds me a bit of discussions in the house when I was growing up (with two parents who were teachers). One more than one occasion it was noted that when students do well a person will say “I got an A” but when things go wrong, what happens? The rhetoric changes to “the teacher failed me.” Oh what a tangled web we weave–KSH.
I have been fascinated by the Media reaction to this. On the NBC news last night, for instance, they called the code a “quaint” throwback. Other outlets have been likewise diminutive. While I personally wouldn’t have gone to BYU for the honor code reasons (I like my coffee), it is not like this was some shady, behind the scenes obscure rule the administration pulled at the last minute.
The kid signed onto it and agreed to it. If he had gotten a credit card and maxed it out or taken a gun and shot 3 people, you better believe they’d be calling for him to live up to his actions and pay the piper.
As Fatsis indicated, media reaction has been largely favorable to the University, at least in my sampling of it. I think the general reaction, even in the media, has been the same as Archer’s – the components of the code were well understood and he violated it. Hats off to the University for sticking to its principles. Fatsis’s comments were the jarring note, frankly. The unstated assumption in his commentary was that the prohibition was being selectively enforced against minority students (at least I think I detected that). I enjoy Fatsis’s sports commentary on NPR. He’s intelligent and often has an insightful take on things. Here, I think his aversion to a religious construct as disciplined as the LDS life leads him to assume hypocrisy where, in fact, there is none.
Well, it could be that the student involved was singled out because of race. I see no evidence of that, but the Mormon church for years taught that being black was “the mark of Cain” until the Prophet (when questions were being asked years ago by some feds on some issues) suddenly had a revelation that that was not the case.
Again, I think BYU and the Mormon church has gotten past that, but the truth of the matter is that historically speaking, the Mormon church has never had particularly good relationships with the African American community. If you don’t believe me, do a search on how many African-Americans hold high positions in the Mormon church or how many sing in the Mormon Tabernacle choir. The answer is: not many.
This is a good, but typical, example of why I don’t listen to NPR, and stopped giving to our local public radio station once they were taken over by NPR.
The Chinese have a better approach – which I approve of. When a student does well, everyone congratulates the parents. When he does badly, the parents take the heat. (And you may be sure that when they take the heat, someone else gets burned and burned badly.)
The Mormons have had and still have a poor reputation for their relationship with blacks. If you are far enough left, you will charge them with racism, as if the Constitution had somehow got a grip on the Church. Well, it hasn’t, and if LDS think blacks are the children of Cain, that their privilege. It’s nonsense of course, but no sillier than having the RC church tell us that Mary stayed a lifelong virgin, or that Christ didn’t have brother and sisters or that she has the power to intervene with God. The LDS belief nor more harms blacks than a ridiculous RC belief harms Anglicans. Larry
I’m only aware of the headlines and sound bytes about this incident so I’m sorry if I’m asking the obvious but how did BYU find out they had sex? And was the girl punished, as well?
Perhaps I’m cynical but I don’t know how on Earth you’d enforce an “honor code” that includes no coffee or tea without turning the university community into a bunch of schemers and snitches. Hey, wanta get rid of a classmate/teammate you don’t like or who’s better than you at something? Report him/her for sneaking a mocha latte! Wanta get even with a romantic interest who dumped you? Tell the authorities that he/she tried to get you into bed.
I mean, seriously — how do you PROVE these sorts of things? Do virginity exams and swab for fluids? Give everyone at BYU and the surrounding community a digital camera with video function?
My understanding from things I saw posted by BYU students is that the player had problems with his conscience and turned himself in and told the school he had broken the Honor Code. I do not know whether this is the correct story, however.
Stefan Fatsis? Is that a real name?
[blockquote] . . .the Mormon church has never had particularly good relationships with the African American community. If you don’t believe me, do a search on how many African-Americans hold high positions in the Mormon church or how many sing in the Mormon Tabernacle choir. The answer is: not many. [/blockquote]
That’s why I don’t like environmentalists. Look how many black people you find in positions of authority in the global warming movement. Not many! A bunch of racists, they are.
I went to BYU for doctoral work–a “token Episcopalian” in their graduate classes. I had to subscribe to the honor code just as every other student does–in fact, I had to sign on to it each of the three years I attended! It was NOT a burden if I wanted the education they provided (a very good one if I DO say so!)
The inconsistency lay in the use of caffeinated soft drinks–Coke (which I believe is Mormon-owned), Mountain Dew–and chocolate candy; the BYU bookstore (a FANTASTIC place, by the way) was LOADED with chocolate delights! We were told we couldn’t have coffee in our dorm room or classrooms but the “elder” suggested I could get some at Wendy’s if I really needed it!
Coca Cola and similar caffeinated drinks are clearly off limits. If kids were drinking them, they were violating the Code. My father did a number of visiting professor turns at BYU. His check reflected the deduction of a tithe to the Church, despite his being a Presbyterian. He didn’t mind. He loved the University and the students.
Interestingly, I grew up around a lot of Mormons in Clark County, Washington. My best friend in middle school was a Mormon. He was always trying to convince me to give up caffeinated soft drinks. So when I was in 7th or 8th grade for Lent I gave up soda-pop. Over that Lenten season I lost my taste for soda and never went back to drinking it. At 31 I’m very grateful for the health benefits I’m already enjoying from almost two decades soda free. I am an extremely avid coffee and tea drinker though.
drjoan, the observant Mormons I have known don’t drink caffeinated soda. A Mormon neighbor of mine was surprised and somewhat guilty when she discovered that chocolate contains caffeine. If you want some killer chocolate dessert recipes, hang out with Mormon housewives. 🙂
There’s likely a lot more to the story. If he turned himself in, that changes the story. There are many people in the LDS church breaking rules all the time but they are smart enough to keep their mouths shut. The LDS chuch is happy to take advantage of bad consciences to discipline people.
Also, regarding the idea that ‘he knew about the code’: for Mormons, because their entire life and family is tied up in the church, making the choice to quit the church, not go on a mission, or just not go to BYU is very difficult. Imagine how you would feel if everybody in your family decided never to speak to you again if you decided you weren’t willing to live by that honor code. This happens all the time in Mormon families.
If you don’t have other evidence on somebody, punishing merely for confession is a troublesome precedent.
Wow, so he owned up and they still threw the book at him? And, again, what about the girl?
Then, I think that what they just ended up teaching a conscience-driven young man is that hypocrisy is better. He is surely not the only one who broke the “honor code” but acting honorably (by owning up) is punitive.
RE: “Then, I think that what they just ended up teaching a conscience-driven young man is that hypocrisy is better.”
I’m not certain why that would be. I myself have confessed to things which troubled my conscience and had discipline enacted — and not regretted it or then determined to turn to hypocrisy. I do not see why this young man would be any different.
He did wrong. He knew he did wrong. There were clear consequences spelled out for doing wrong. He has suffered those clear consequences.
The real *media* issue, of course, with all of this is the offense that it causes others to recognize that there are still people who believe that those actions are wrong.
That’s what’s actually got them all so irked. The whole “race” thing is just red herring to obscure the reasons for the irritation by the secularists.
I didn’t get the sense that the media (“got them all . . .” etc.)were “irked” in any sense. Most of the commentary I saw was highly laudatory about BYU taking a principled stand, even at the expense of possible success on the basketball court. The Fatsis take seemed to be an outlier. Obviously, I’m not Media Watch, and my sample may be suspect. But I saw and heard a lot of positive press. The reason, I think, that the media took a largely supportive position is that they perceived the NCAA’s overall discipline and enforcement of standards in college sports to be fairly situational. This seemed like a refreshing counterpoint to that condition.
Sarah,
He turned to the church and confessed, which is what one is supposed to do, but they punished him severely. Again, what about the girl involved? Was she punished even though she didn’t come forward?
What if he had regretted his behavior, asked God for forgiveness privately, and did his own penance without involving the church? Would he have been any less forgiven? He would have remained on the team and the public wouldn’t have known.
Because one has confessed does not mean that one should necessarily not be punished. Actions have consequences, and he knew what the consequences would be. Probably if he had been discovered without confessing his punishment would have been more severe.
Um – Fatsis – you’re the reporter – instead of insinuations – find the proof. Even if true, uneven enforcement does not justify the wrongdoing or even overlooking the wrongdoing.
So – if the student were white – Fatsis would have no complaint? Less insinuating and more reporting, or is research and reporting no longer part of the job description? Where is the proof?
Why would the church care? Why is this relevant? Perhaps the values of Fatsis and NPR are questioned on a daily basis by average Americans – NPR does not seem to care.
So… no honor code should ever be enforced for fear of shaming the student? Perhaps the school expected that this student is more capable of honorable behavior than Fatsis does – what does this say of Fatsis?
Once again, the poor quality of reporting is almost overclouded by the illogic and self righteousness of the reporter.
🙄