Nominees for the Vth Bishop of San Joaquin Announced

With gratitude to the Search Committee for their faithful completion of the task appointed them, and with anticipation of the continued guidance of the Holy Spirit, the Standing Committee of the Anglican Diocese of San Joaquin, ACNA, is pleased to make formal announcement of the candidates for Episcopal Election. The following candidates were selected after a process of serious prayer, discussion, and discernment from the nominations which were received as of January 2011. They are listed simply in alphabetical order:

The Rev. Dr. Ronald Jackson, Diocese of Luweero (Province of Uganda)
The Rev. Dr. Eric Menees, Diocese of Western Anglicans (ACNA)
The Very Rev. Carlos Raines, Diocese of San Joaquin (ACNA)
The Very Rev. Canon Ryan Reed, Diocese of Fort Worth (ACNA)

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Posted in * Anglican - Episcopal, Anglican Church in North America (ACNA), Episcopal Church (TEC), TEC Conflicts, TEC Conflicts: San Joaquin

68 comments on “Nominees for the Vth Bishop of San Joaquin Announced

  1. francis says:

    A solid group. Tough choices.

  2. Intercessor says:

    The Lord’s will be done. Please pray for our diocese.
    Intercessor

  3. Richard Yale says:

    I have a polity question. I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that bishops in the ACNA were not elected by the dioceses, but rather that the dioceses send a list of nominees to the ACNA house of bishops for election. How does it work?

  4. Intercessor says:

    #4—Nobody knows…question has been put to clergy and we are waiting for a response.
    Intercessor
    P.S. Cennydd may have the answer if he logs onto this thread.

  5. Townsend Waddill+ says:

    Richard, dioceses in the ACNA have the option to send a slate to the House of Bishops for selection, but it is not required. The House of Bishops of course has to approve the candidate that is selected.

  6. Sarah says:

    Does anyone know what the ecclesial stance of each one is? I’m assuming that some to all are actual AngloCatholics but do not know for sure.

  7. TLDillon says:

    Sarah I think only one of them is really and truly Anglo-Catholic and that would be The Very rev. Ryan Reed from Ft. Worth. I know our Dean Fr. Carlos Raines from the Cathedral is not…he is more protestant in his ways and I think Fr. Menees is as well more protestant as well…..not sure about the other Fr. Jackson.

  8. TLDillon says:

    I find it very interesting how in ACNA one can choose how to go about electing their next bishop….it is like Burger King….”Have it your way. Traditional or New Testament Biblical style.”

  9. Intercessor says:

    #8: Can they hold the pickle?
    Intercessor

  10. Richard Yale says:

    Had a delightful lunch with Ron Jackson many years ago before he went to St. Luke’s in La Crescenta. I would have said he was evangelical in his leanings at that time.

  11. Sarah says:

    Thanks, TLDillon — Ryan Reed was the only name I recognized and though I don’t know a whole lot about him, I have liked what I’ve seen.

  12. TLDillon says:

    Yes Sarah…he would be my choice but our Diocese is not Anglo-Catholic as advertised and have not been in many years. Our diocese is making a bee-line for the Protestant-Evangelical road in a much faster pace since we left ECUSA much to my disappointment and the few of us who still hold to the Anglo-Catholic ways. I am also coming to the realization that ACNA is not what many of us thought it would be…..but that is just my perspective….which is not worth much except to me.

  13. PJCABBINESS says:

    The nominations are disappointing. I would descibe the candidates as second tier at best and none of them are suited for the role of a strong, qualified Anglo-Catholic Bishop. TEC will, no doubt, be comforted by this list.

  14. Timothy Fountain says:

    Not discounting Anglo Catholicism in SJ, but I would also note that it is a part of CA with much poverty and distress. Heavily agricultural and also multi-ethnic.

    Menees has solid experience in urban, Hispanic and Third-World ministry as well as being a guy who could have been a TEC insider but followed the Gospel instead.

    Not discounting the other candidates or the wisdom of the folks in SJ to discern the Lord’s choice for Bishop. Just giving out some info that might get overlooked if the only question is “who wears a maniple to mass?”

  15. TLDillon says:

    MR. Fountain….we have three huge Hispanic, maybe more that i might be missing but three that I do know of congregations. The ethic populace needs are being met and we also have two Laotian priests and groups too…. so our ethnicity is not going unchecked and are not left out….I will go you one farther….the one Hispanic congregation on our Cathedral grounds it triple the size of the the Cathedral congregation size…..and have ore programs than the Cathedral as well. it is the Anglo-Catholics who are not being represented and being shoved to the back of the bus.

  16. texanglican says:

    No. 13, I can’t speak to the qualities of the other three candidates, but I can say something about Dean Reed. He is abundantly qualified to serve Christ as a bishop. He has been one of Bishop Iker’s right-hand men for many years, having served as dean of our cathedral for nine years and as president of our Standing Committee. He was literally the host of the Inaugural Assembly of the ACNA at St Vincent’s, and has served on national bodies and committees in both the ACNA and the AAC. He has traveled extremely widely with Bishop Iker in the cause of traditionalist Anglicanism (GAFCON, Uganda, No Malawi, Cambodia, England, etc) so that you would be hard-pressed to find a bettered informed candidate in the country on orthodox Anglican affairs world-wide. As for being Anglo-Catholic, while Dean Reed attended an evangelical seminary he is very much in the mainstream of Anglo-Catholicism in the diocese of Ft Worth and is an active SSC member. So I suppose the question I would have for you is–if Ryan Reed+ doesn’t fit the bill to be “a strong, qualified Anglo-Catholic Bishop” who in this country does? (Is your objection that he is not quite “spikey” enough? If so, I would urge you to reconsider. The only kind of Anglo-Catholic bishop who could succeed in a diocese like dioSJ would be one who was very familiar and respectful of evangelicals. Reed+ certainly is both.)

  17. Timothy Fountain says:

    TL – I didn’t say you were ignoring those needs. I said that Menees was a good match for them and it wasn’t being discussed in the thread.

    AC’s have a tradition of social concern and a proud history of serving parishes in parts of town that others would avoid. A robust AC Bishop in that mold could run rings around TEC and its empty claims.

    Still, we avoid a harsh truth in orthodox circles. We are good at charting TEC’s statistics of decline, but we don’t like to admit that ACism in the U.S. is declining. I’m not saying that’s good or crowing about it – it is a sad change from where I sit. It might feel like being shoved to the back of the bus, but the fact is that ACs are like many other contingents in our churches, aging and not able to connect with those who are not already well versed in ecclesiastical fine points.

    Certainly, there are exceptions across the land. But ACism, already a small presence, is badly, badly diluted by Continuum, ACNA, TEC and now Ordinariate options… and in TEC there are folks who would identify as ACs who simply offer nice aesthetics for revisionism.

    Seriously, it would be a blessing to have an outbreak of AC renewal, contrasting the mysteries and claims of the transcendant kingdom of God against the empty calories of secularism and so much of American pop-Christianity. I just don’t see markers of that in the current AC landscape.

  18. PJCABBINESS says:

    Mr. Fountain……urban, hispanic, third world? These terms are not at all descriptive of our SJ Diocese, the majority of parishes within the Diocese, etc. The candidates in question do not align well with SJ should be rejected in total. As to the question of a better selection….Fr. Karl Dietz would have been an appropriate candidate.

  19. PJCABBINESS says:

    I will not drink the “Anglo-Catholic Lite” Texas Koolaid. We need theological depth, intellectual firepower, etc., etc.

  20. Ralph Webb says:

    It’s not just Anglo-Catholicism that is declining. The wave of “evangelicals on the Canterbury trail,” some of whom might be attracted to Anglo-Catholicism, but all of whom appreciated Anglicanism for at least some of its distinctions, probably has passed its peak. Those who come to Anglican parishes from non-Anglican backgrounds seemingly mostly come today because they like a particular congregation rather than due to style of worship or doctrine — a trend common to Christian churches in general over the last several decades. The main exception consists of young adults attracted to Reformed Christianity who then find things they like within Anglicanism. They often (in my experience, usually) view Anglicanism through non-Anglican Reformed lenses. Their heroes mostly tend to be non-Anglicans such as Piper, Horton, and Sproul. On the Anglican end, they often greatly admire Packer; have some, but substantially less, appreciation for Stott; and most often seem to have little-to-no knowledge of other Anglicans — save for N. T. Wright, who is often (though not always) a negative example of Anglican theology to them. Both of these trends — low churchmanship and Reformed theology — obviously favor the evangelical side among orthodox Anglicans.

  21. Cennydd13 says:

    To all: This has been a process governed by time constraints. I’m told that it normally takes anywhere from a year to eighteen months from the time a bishop announces his intent to retire until the election of his successor. It has been less in our case.

    The list of nominees has gone to the Standing Committee for their consideration, and the results will then go to the College of Bishops, with the final choice to be made by the Archbishop. That is my understanding of the procedure.

    It has been my privilege to serve as a member of the Search Committee.

  22. Cennydd13 says:

    And from my own viewpoint: While I am an Anglo Catholic, I respect other peoples’ choices, be they Charismatic or Evangelical, and I have no problems with those choices. In fact, my Anglo Catholicism is a personal religiosity with me, and is not one which I consider to be an absolute requirement for others. One might even say I’m an Evangelical Anglo Catholic, if for no other reason than my wife…..who shares my views, by the way…..are members of a mission church whose vicar describes himself as Evangelical…..and we’re fine with that.

    We of the Bishop Search Committee had some tough choices to make, and while I can’t claim to speak for all of us, I think we made the right choices, while knowing that some people were going to be dissatisfied with those choices .

  23. PJCABBINESS says:

    The search committee has clearly failed the orthodox, Anglo Catholic members of the diocese. Each of the candidates represents a future of SJ that differs significantly from what was envisioned when the choice to separate from TEC was made. The committee acted in a manner that was neither transparent nor sound and each of the selections have the “fingerprint” of particular individuals on the committee. While it is unlikely that the action of this particular body can be set aside, I would encourage any legitimate action by individuals and/or organized groups to defeat and undo this error and failure of judgment. The first step is to demand that a list of all of the nominees to committee be made public.

  24. Ian Montgomery says:

    I want to commend Ron Jackson for those who might not know him. Currently he teaches in England at Trinity Theological College – one of the foremost Theological Colleges in England (in the USA we would call it a seminary, but the emphasis in England is first focused on preparation and formation for ministry and does not see these colleges primarily as academic institutions, though I must add that the academics are really of a very high standard). It is distinctly evangelical. Before that Ron was rector at St. Luke’s, La Crescenta in Los Angeles. He became a Province of Uganda priest and that congregation is now outside of TEC. Before that he worked as an associate in Beverly Hills and before that was rector of St. Bartholomew’s, Nashville, where he preceded me.

    Ron is an outstanding preacher, teacher. He is devoted to mission and has notably been a strong force in SOMA as well as participating in SOMA teams. Ron comes out of the Charismatic renewal. I would never have described him as Anglo Catholic but certainly very much part of the Church Catholic. I am thrilled that he has been picked as a candidate for SJ.

  25. David Keller says:

    I just looked it up on the internet. I assumed from some of these posts that evangelicalism was a dread disease. I am comforted to find out the word actullay comes from the Bible. Who knew?

  26. Cennydd13 says:

    PJCABBINESS, we did the best we could with the list of nominees that was given to us. That was what we had to work with. We had to try to come to a consensus, and we did that. We know that the process wasn’t perfect; none ever is.

    May I suggest that if you have a problem with this, you take it to the Standing Committee?

  27. TLDillon says:

    Cennydd13,
    While I understand the difficulty of “making everyone happy” and also understanding that that cannot happen, I have to say that PJCabbiness has hit on some very truthful points, although I disagree with him on his choice for Bishop candidate only because I do not think that Fr. Deitz has had enough time under his belt as a rector of his own church and leading and needs to be “seasoned” more especially in these turbulent times in our church.

    Mr. Ian Montgomery, has said it quite well. We have morphed in this diocese since leaving TEc into something that is looking more and more like a Protestant church with liturgy in the mix. Our Liturgy, and traditions are no longer valued and learned in their depths and the true reasons why they are what they are and why we do them is not taught and learned….just memorized week to week then it becomes something less and okay to change and mix up.

    In that particular style what sets us apart from any other domination outside of Anglicanism? I say nothing. And also why is it okay for us to morph and change thins gs up but not TEc? Why is it okay for us to say “They did this and that and we will not tolerate it.” then pick up and leave and then expect everyone to not notice when we put ourselves under another Province that “feels good” to the masses that allows choices in governing, wiggle room for anyone, loose reins on clergy? Is not the very thing we we decrying about ECUSA? We need to be looking in the mirror because it is not looking any better and once you allow people (sheep who need to be led) to just wiggle here and there we will wind up with yet another split. We are serial “divorcees” in the church. It began with Peter leaving the New Testament Church (Orthodox) and then Henry VIII, and it has been continuing ever since when we humans start looking for that “feel good” pew and church…..

    Regarding time….why was time wasted asking all parishioners to fill out a questionnaire about what they would like to see in this diocese fora Bishop? You cannot say that with the tie you had you did your best when much of that precious time was wasted on getting the “consensus” of what the people want. And I have to say that the majority of your choices in this end run reflect exactly what those questionnaires produced and what I have been saying for a few years now. San Joaquin Diocese is not Anglo-Catholic orthodox, it has changed into Protestant-Evangelical-Charismatic with a splash of Pentecostal. If I wanted that I would go to a mega church where there is also entertainment on the altar/stage.

    And I might add that in this diocese in the past 5+ years I have witnessed that we have rushed through many decisions that have brought us to this point.

    And if these are our choices I would prefer what some might call “Anglo-Catholic Lite” over Protestant-Evangelical-Charismatic with a splash of Pentecostal anytime. And I might add unless one knows for a fact that Fr. Ryan Reed is “Anglo-Catholic Lite” one might want to be careful about casting titles. it could come back to bite one in the “tri-tip” of their backside.

  28. TLDillon says:

    BTW Cennydd13, suggesting to PJCabbiness to take his complaint to the Standing Committee now is a non starter. The choices have been made and the May election is just around that corner. Any complaints or suggestions at this juncture is moot and will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

  29. TLDillon says:

    Correction in my attributing Mr. Ian Montgomery with my train of thought in his post it was Ralph of whom I meant.

    Ralph has it more right speaking to the problem of thinning AC’s. As Mr. Timothy Fountain has pointed out in his #17 post AC’s are declining but I would attest that is has more to do with ACism not being taught not because we are aging and can not connect. I am a 51 year old AC and I am not feeling that aged and we are teaching our two young sons ages 13 & 15, what ACism is and what makes it different because they are not going to get that in depth teaching from any clergy in out diocese, they are too busy trying to do what the Mega Churches do with a liturgy. Yet I do not see an influx of youth or young families in the Cathedral what-so-ever.

    On a side note …I apologize for my typos…..

  30. Intercessor says:

    I think maybe God is nudging me and my family out of the DioSJ door. I am repulsed when my QUIET time of prayer time immediately after receiving the Blood and the Body is interrupted by a priest calling the congregation to stand up and quote Bible versus and what ever is on there mind to espouse their “prophesy”. This is not a prayer tent. This is a Cathedral. That is an Evangelist. That is NOT what our diocese was and now it cannot be anything else. i can’t wait for the Unitarian Eucharist in the very near horizon.
    Intercessor

  31. TLDillon says:

    Mr. Keller,
    Evangelicalism is not a disease! Geesh! I have no problem evangelizing with my actions in the world as we are commissioned to do…I just do not believe that it need be done in the worship service. That is where I believe we go to get filled up from being emptied out during the week so we can continue to do the work He has given us to do and to grow closer to Him through the liturgy of the Word, prayers, and the Sacrament. Then with the charge at the end of the service to “Go out to love and serve the Lord” that is where evangelicalism belongs & begins …not in the worship service.

    Pentecost is also in the Bible…are you Pentecostal?

  32. TLDillon says:

    I just have to ask how can one be both evangelical and anglo-catholic? They are two separate “mechanisms” in worship style and beliefs. If they are the same then why are not more Mega Churches jumping on the Anglicanism band wagon? ….Oops! My pardon…they are! We have many as Ralph put it leaving the baptist churches, Vineyard Churches, etc…and coming on over to our Anglican Diocese to “reform” us of our Anglo-Catholic ways and to change us into Evangelicals-Charismatics-Protestants……Gee! That avenue looks much like what the women who pushed ordination for themselves did and the LGBT have succeeded in doing as well….

  33. TLDillon says:

    The term “Evangelicalism” is a wide-reaching definitional “canopy” that covers a diverse number of Protestant groups. It originates in the Greek word euangelion, meaning “the good news,” or, more commonly, the “gospel.” During the Reformation, Martin Luther adapted the Greek term, dubbing his breakaway movement the evangelische kirke, or “evangelical church”– a name still generally applied to the Lutheran Church in Germany. In the English-speaking world, however, the modern usage usually connotes the religious movements and denominations which sprung forth from a series of revivals that swept the North Atlantic Anglo-American world in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries. Key figures associated with these revivals included the itinerant English evangelist George Whitefield (1715-1770); the founder of Methodism, John Wesley (1703-1791) ; and American philosopher and theologian Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758). These revivals were particularly responsible for the rise of the Baptists and Methodists from obscure sects to their traditional position as America’s two largest Protestant denominational families.

    Anglo-Catholicism describe people, beliefs and practices within Anglicanism that affirm the Catholic, rather than Protestant, heritage and identity of the Anglican churches.

    So again how can one be both?

  34. martin5 says:

    A [i]little[/i] bit of a bias here …. being from Fort Worth. 🙂
    Way to go Canon Reed!

  35. Confessor says:

    The Church had better be all three – Catholic (correct doctrine), Evangelical (preaching the gospel, making disciples and growing) and Charismatic (a vessel of God’s transforming, healing and delivering power) or ‘she’ is impotent and sick, very sick unto death!

    Oh, and the church had better be transparent, submitted to God and each other and exercise discipline and accountability as well.

  36. Cennydd13 says:

    I wish that we had had a year or so for the search process. Unfortunately, we didn’t.

  37. TLDillon says:

    For those from Ft. Worth….I concur and if we are a blessed diocese we will wind up with Dean Reed…..

  38. TLDillon says:

    Confessor,
    I think that most all Christian denominations are two out of the three. That being Evangelical and Charismatic but not catholic. i would also say that the Anglican Church is all three but is losing her catholic side and becoming more like the Protestants with a liturgy service. Every Anglican Church I have been into that is not or has not been in the Anglican Communion has big screens for praise music, a praise band, and a protestant style sermon and service, speaking out in tongues with no interpreter….now I am not saying that those things are bad, save maybe the fact that we are instructed in the Scriptures to have an interpreter for those speaking in tongues and also 1 Cor. 14:26-28
    [i]’What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. [27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, [b]and let someone interpret.[/b] [28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.'[/i]

  39. Cennydd13 says:

    I am disturbed by the statement which says “each of the selections has the ‘fingerprint’ of particular individuals on the committee.” What did you mean by that statement? I am not aware that any of our statements were recorded.

  40. TLDillon says:

    Cennydd13….you cannot allow this to be come personal to you alone…it is not….I am not speaking for PJCABBINESS here, but as a friend and sister in Christ. You just cannot take this or make this personal…..It is all now in the hands of God whether His choice is n these four or not….He will make a wrong right eventually or make those who are wrong right eventually. You did what you thought was your best with what was given you….now it is in the hands of those who get to vote and have an end say…and that is certainly not me….nor you unless you are a delegate.

  41. TLDillon says:

    And I pray that those who served on the Bishop’s Search Committee are not voting delegates….as that would just seem a bit tilted of the scales if they are.

  42. MichaelA says:

    I am glad to hear that Cennydd was on the search committee. I have been reading his posts for many years now and I have no doubt he would be a worthy member.

    Whoever the bishop is, he will need to care for evangelical, anglo-catholic and “other” congregations (i.e. those who may not see themselves fitting into another person’s neat ecclesiastical boxes).

    To all of you, anglo-catholic or evangelical, I would say: engage in godly competition – see who can make more disciples! If the evangelical and anglo-catholic congregations both make many new disciples from the unchurched, then whatever the final “score”, the kingdom of God will be increased. And it has been my experience that any congregation which preaches to the unchurched, enjoys great blessings.

    As someone rightly pointed out above, the early Anglo Catholics were known for their evangelism and ministry among the poor. As are many ACs today. It is a path guaranteed to expand and bless your movement.

  43. Cennydd13 says:

    May we be truly blessed with our new bishop, whoever he may be.

  44. PJCABBINESS says:

    I do not know what the result will be for our diocese in light of the theological relativism expressed by many of the posts on this site but I fear it will be for the worse. Why don’t we just transform into a feel good non-denominational mega church model with robes. The committee has insured that there will be no place for the deeply sacramental. Their efforts would have better served a Wal Mart executive search effort. Shame on them. The process was not open or transparent. There will be little point to promoting holy, historical, sacramental Anglican worship in the future here in SJ as we are now drifting into the intellectually indefensible mythology of modern American evangelicalism. Leave your B.C.P.’s and your mind at home and pick up a guitar and embrace the theocandy coming soon. Good luck.

  45. TLDillon says:

    PJCabbiness,
    I think you are painting with a very broad brush…..there is one candidate in the four that would serve this diocese well and that is Dean Reed from Ft. Worth. One is better than none and I would suggest that we pray that tat is God choice and that those who are voting in May hear His voice. If we wind up with one of the other three then I might concur with you but we have hope in the one let us at least pray for that one to be God’s chosen.

  46. Intercessor says:

    Why don’t we just transform into a feel good non-denominational mega church model with robes.

    Fast Food with easy to read menu…
    Intercessor

  47. Dr. William Tighe says:

    Ask each candidate what he thinks of WO. That will clear the confusion quickly enough, and show all Catholic-minded Anglicans of the DSJ who would be acceptable, and whom not, and or whom to vote.

  48. TLDillon says:

    BTW….There is not many if any churches in our diocese that use their BCP on a Sunday Morning! Those books are collecting dust and have been for years. The Hymnals are even getting less use….printed out service programs are the choice dejour with the reasoning of being visitor friendly as the explanation. But I would be hard pressed to find that many visitors in any of the churches on any given Sunday. It song that we have been moving in a Protestant direction. I would also say that more than half of our churches with few exceptions are using praise bands as well.

  49. TLDillon says:

    [i]It song[/i] should be It is a sign…typing to fast and I do typos ;>)

  50. deaconmark says:

    It’s a struggle to muster much sympathy. Warnings were given and not heeded. Some have been taken on a merry ride. I believe there is a saying about having made one’s bed and the need to lie in it.

  51. MichaelA says:

    Deaconmark,

    What were the warnings that were given and not heeded. Are you suggesting that DSJ should have stayed part of TEC?

  52. TLDillon says:

    If that is what deaconmark is referring to then I need to point out that ECUSA is not any better…..they broke from the Church of England when the Episcopal Church was formed here in the USA with Seabury and then before that CofE left Rome and before that Rome left the New Testament Churches! No one can throw a stone here on this issue.

    And ECUSA has suffered not one but three splits within itself. The 1800’s with REC then in the middle 1970’s with the St. Louis Affirmation and now those who left in the past 3-5 years to form ACNA! So be careful when you throw stones deaconmark….glass houses and all!

  53. Rogue Saint says:

    Everything isn’t coming up roses since leaving TEC? Shocking.

    Wait until you have to give back the property you stole.

    Your bigotry and hatred and where it leads you, baffles me.

  54. Sarah says:

    RE: “It’s a struggle to muster much sympathy.”

    Why anyone would want sympathy from a revisionist, I can not fathom. I’m sure that the members of the Diocese of San Joaquin will be able to recover from Deacon Mark’s lack.

    Question is . . . why is he trolling over at T19?

  55. Cennydd13 says:

    I am concerned about his remark; I prefer to ignore it and move on. So should we all.

  56. martin5 says:

    Cennydd13,
    Was that a pun … concerned about his reMARK? I am with you. Sometimes it is better to ignore those who wish to cause trouble.

  57. Cennydd13 says:

    And we use our hymnals…..abominations that they are…..for every service, and this includes Lift Every Voice and Sing Volume 2 now and then. We also use service bulletins.

  58. TLDillon says:

    Why is the Hymnal an abomination Cennydd13? Because it is the 1982 vs. the 1940? I would concur with you on that or do you prefer praise & worship music that one can hear on a Christian radio station?

  59. MichaelA says:

    A terrible choice lies before you Cennydd: a 1940 hymnbook or music from a christian radio station – there is no other choice!!!

    I don’t know your hymnbooks of course, but I can say that, whilst I enjoy hymn music, there are good and bad examples of it. Thousands of hymns have been written over the centuries – I can still find hymns written in the 13th century that knock the socks off many written later. But then I can also find some very good modern ones. Something is not necessarily good simply because it is old (nor just because it is new, either).

  60. TLDillon says:

    MichaelA….My question relates to traditional music vs. Praise Band music….large difference! I like both but in my worship service I like the traditional hymns and when I am runnng around town I like praise and worship…it is all preference & style…nothing more!

  61. TLDillon says:

    And again if I want praise & worship bands and music I know of quite a few Mega Protestant Churches I could go to…..but I am not Protestant…..I am Anglo-Catholic!

  62. Cennydd13 says:

    I am definitely not into prayer & praise [i]music,[/i] but I sure [i]am[/i] into [i]prayer and praise![/i] In a dignified way.

  63. Cennydd13 says:

    TLDillon, I don’t like the way in which the grand old hymns in the Hymnal 1940 were de-sexified (and re-worded in some cases) or removed entirely for one reason or another. That’s just for starters.

  64. Cennydd13 says:

    Oh, and MichaelA, there’s a Welsh/Englsh hymnal called ‘Welsh and English Anthems (Reformatted),’ which also bears the title [i]Deuwch, Canwn I’r Argylwydd[/i] (Come, Let Us Sing To the Lord).’ You might be able to find it in the UK, and I highly recommend it. Those old hymns are really soul-stirring!

    Pob Hywll!

  65. TLDillon says:

    Well the 1940 is better than the 1982…..

  66. MichaelA says:

    TL Dillon, sorry, my mistake!

    Cennydd,

    Thanks. I’m in Australia (I only visit UK) but I have heard of it anyway.

    I grew up with some wonderful Welsh hymns. I think my favourites are “In heavenly love abiding” (sung to Penlan), and “Guide me o thou great Jehovah”.

    Both of which have been murdered by inept attempts to modernise the words (bearing out your point above)!

  67. Matt Kennedy says:

    Intercessor:

    “I am repulsed when my QUIET time of prayer time immediately after receiving the Blood and the Body is interrupted by a priest calling the congregation to stand up and quote Bible versus and what ever is on there mind to espouse their “prophesy”.”

    hmm…i don’t think I would label that “evangelical”. That sounds charismatic. Sometimes the two travel together…sometimes they don’t.

  68. Bob Maxwell+ says:

    Once upon a time in the Church pre ’76, in a diocese whose reputation was that of “Spikey” even in the biretta belt, there existed something that disappeared from Boomers, Gen X and the Millenials and that loss changed the worldview in the Church. What slowly ebbed from the Church was trust, trust in God, trust in our bishop and trust in the clergy.

    Whether it was the biblical scholar bishop from “the House” that had sat in their home at St. George’s in Jerusalem as the artillery shells flying over their heads announced the birth of the new country of Israel or the quiet senior priest who campaigned so diligently for the election of a former missionary bishop to save money for our small diocese only to find himself elected as the one we trusted to follow the Shepherd of our souls, we lived in trust. The vestry of a vacant parish was allowed to send one name forward to Bishop Sheridan, in trust knowing he would then lay everything about that priest that he knew or could learn before his Lord in prayerful expectation. On occasion, a vestry would be instructed to prayerfully put forward the name of another priest and in trust they did.

    As a group of nine Anglican Congregations closes their first Synod to become a diocese in formation, their days and years of life, prayer, worship and service together brought that foundational issue of Trust. Bishop Win Mott reflected on whom we trust after the delegates elected removed these words from the Provisional Constitution: “No candidate for licensure or holy orders may be rejected solely on the basis of gender or theology about women in holy orders.” The delegates and observers were called by Bp Mott to the work of Apostolic Trust, “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and us. . .”

    Trust, in my opinion, is fundamental work in the DSJ, the Anglican Diocese of the Southwest in Formation, inside many within the ACNA and the many parts of the Anglican Communion seeking to both stand in and deliver the “Faith Once Delivered to the Saints” to those in the world around us. “Lord, in your mercy, hear our prayer.”