After hearing about the five primates’ intentions to boycott Lambeth, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said February 15 that the conference will be diminished by their absence, and I imagine that they themselves will miss a gift they might have otherwise received. After hearing about the five primates’ intentions to boycott Lambeth, Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori said February 15 that the conference “will be diminished by their absence, and I imagine that they themselves will miss a gift they might have otherwise received.
Does she really think that the Global South is “afraid” of her or her views? The point of their absense is not fear, but the need to witness to the truth and separate from those who teach falsehoods.
Again with this strange teaching of Schori’s: “It is our searching, especially with those we find most ‘other,’ that is likely to lead us into the fuller experience of the body of Christ.â€
The history of the Church and Her saints seems to show us that, by true repentance, diligent prayer and spiritual struggle, we can come to know God more fully, and that the Holy Spirit will come to dwell within our hearts. But, so far as I have read or heard, searching (for what?) with those we find most “other†is not within the Church’s experience as a pathway to a “fuller experience of the body of Christ.â€
Schori has said this kind of thing before – that God (or, more accurately, small-g god) is a construct of human relationships. Is this folk religion, Hinduism, what? I’m not really educated enough in comparative religion or pandeism to say more about Schori’s beliefs, other than to contrast them with Christian thought.
[i]”It is our searching, especially with those we find most ‘other,’ that is likely to lead us into the fuller experience of the body of Christ..[/i]
How can we search for that which Christ gives us freely. If the Body of Christ is meant to mean the faithful, then faithful must be a subjective term.
[i] “Fear of the other is an invitation to seek the face of God, not a threat to be avoided.”[/i]
I miss her meaning here. Can anyone enlighten me with plain speak?
[blockquote]I imagine that they themselves will miss a gift they might have otherwise received[/blockquote]
i wonder what the gift would have been? Summons to court? Leather goods?
Clearly she does not like these primates, their theology or their illingness to help those who are convinced that their mission is being compromised by TEC promotion heresy and extra-canonical power politics. So what gift did she think they would miss?
These bishops have heard the arguments and found them wanting. I don’t think they are missing anything, except tea with the Queen.
That word “illingness” should be “willingness.” My apologies, I’ve been digging out of a major snowstorm and my fingers aren’t working.
[blockquote]“Fear of the other is an invitation to seek the face of God, not a threat to be avoided.†[/blockquote]
I am no fan of, nor apologist for +KJS. But there is an example of this in my own coming to Anglican Christianity. From my Southern Baptist background, I was drawn into a rather “high†church, where the real presence was strongly proclaimed. I struggled on my first Sunday morning with whether I should even take communion with these “believers in magic†Instead, I was driven to pray that God allow me the grace of receiving Him in the fullness of whatever mode He had for me. That He was limited by Himself, not by my understanding of Him.
An awareness of the Gift of God here and now in this bread and wine has since become a powerful part of my spiritual life.
The variant with +KSJ is of course that my openness was to God, in accordance with the scriptures and in the communion of the church. The point at issue was one at issue within the church. It was not with those who deny the fundamentals of the received faith.
Who is this woman trying to kid? The five primates “missing a gift?” WHAT “gift,” may I be so bold as to ask? A gift of “revisionist progressive apostasy,” perhaps?
[i] Edited by elf. [/i]
“Fool woman,” Cennydd? My, my, my … where are the elves when you need them.
How about the gift of finding a unity in Christ that transcends differences in cultures and theologies? Nah … that’s probably too traditionally Anglican an approach for those ready to throw out the ABofC with the bathwater.
[blockquote]Fear of the other is an invitation to seek the face of God, not a threat to be avoided.[/blockquote]
My dear bishop Shori, It is not fear that drives the Global South bishops from Lambeth. It is simply a recognition of the broken communion that TECUSA preciptated first in Aug 2003 and then finalized in Oct 2003. Remember that we were told that to continue with the ordination of V. Gene Robinson as a bishop would “rend the fabric of the communion at its deepest level?” Just in case you have forgotten your Greek, the word “schism” derives from the Greek for “rend the fabric.” Our then Presiding Bishop, +Griswold, agreed with and signed this statement and then proceeded to schism the communion at its deepest levels.
If you had any remorse over the state of the Communion or a real desire to see the GS bishops at Lambeth, then you would do one of two things:
1. Absent yourself from Lambeth and urge all the other bishops who voted for, ordained, or supported the ordination of Robinson or who allow (or permit or authorize or turn a blind eye to) blessing of same sex unions within their dioceses to absent themselves as a sign of remorse
2. Repent and not support the ordination of any more bishops who are sexually active outside of heterosexual marriage and not allow (permit, authorize, turn a blind eye to) the blessing of same sex marriages.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
The gift that TEC has to bring is pure poison. I’m glad much of the Communion isn’t buying it.
Susan (#8) – they have a gift of unity in Christ that transcends cultures. Perhaps you are unaware of the white, western, middle class Americans and Australians that are in very close union with Uganda, Kenya, Rawanda, Nigeria, and South America. Perhaps you’ve forgotten about the Global Anglican Future Conference that is to take place just before Lambeth. That conference will include faithful Anglo-catholics as well as Evangelicals and Charismatics.
They are the “tranditionally Anglicans” in that they agree that the first line of authority in the Church is Holy Scripture, not our sinful experience.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
BINGO, Phil+! As usual, you hit the nail right square on the head! But, as usual, there will always be someone who will differ with you, won’t there?
[i]”None of us is called to ‘feel at home’ except in the full and immediate presence of God”[/i]
This quote of hers could be useful to stick her with sometime, I can see so many opportunities.
[blockquote] How about the gift of finding a unity in Christ that transcends differences in cultures and theologies?[/blockquote]
I know it is almost pointless to repeat it, but the response must be given.
As we move closer to Christ, we do indeed find a unity that transcends our culture (if we are willing to release its claims on us) and transcends our limited theologies (if we are willing to hold our understanding of Christ lightly while holding Christ strongly).
But the unity we find is with those who are also being drawn into Christ. We find more estrangement with those who have rejected His claims.
Our difficulty is that those whom we thought were growing in unity, those Bishops whom we presumed to be the protectors and promoters of that unity in Christ, were in fact moving away, and rejecting the basis of that unity.
Ms. Russell, I don’t want to sound flippant. The blogs have gotten to speak too much in sound bites (sound bytes?) and quips. But for many of us on this side of the aisle, this is the locus of our pain and anger, and now of our disgust. I could [i]almost[/i] stand for what was black being called white, with reasonable arguments presented. What outrages me is that I am now told that “it doesn’t matter†that abomination or blessing, Word of God or fallible but interesting collection of archaic writings, whether salvation is rescuing souls from hell or achieving the Millennium Development Goals, whether Jesus was a wise teacher or creator of all that was made; it’s all the same as long as we all worship something while in the same room. As Lewis said, Tash or Aslan, now Tashlan.
There is a unity that will draw us all into, but I fear it is not the unity of Christ.
[blockquote] that they themselves will miss a gift they might have otherwise received.[/blockquote]
Yes, apostasy IS the gift that keeps eternally giving – I think I’ll opt out of that one as well.
Thanks be to God there are people who see Shori for the mixed up person she truly is – I hope she finds God in Reality and not just her version of it.
[blockquote]How about the gift of finding a unity in Christ that transcends differences in cultures and theologies?[/blockquote]
There’s another candidate for chiseling into TEC’s headstone.
“None of us is called to ‘feel at home’ except in the full and immediate presence of God,” she added. “It is our searching, especially with those we find most ‘other,’ that is likely to lead us into the fuller experience of the body of Christ. Fear of the other is an invitation to seek the face of God, not a threat to be avoided.”
What utter pseudo Jungian clap trap. Under this logic, it is only by spending Quality time with atheists that we could truly understand faith. Need we spend time with evil in order to be good? I guess the desert fathers and other holy Saints had it wrong.
Has. Dr. Schori never had a theology course? What was her priestly formation?
Are we not called to be at home at the Lord’s Table? Are we not all one in Christ? The whole point is that in the Church of God there is no other. “one Lord, one Faith, one Baptism” means just that.
I guess this is what TEC gets when it elects a Presiding Bishop who has never been Rector of a Parish.
[blockquote]How about the gift of finding a unity in Christ that transcends differences in cultures and theologies? [/blockquote]
Jeffersonian, I like this idea of unity in Christ transcending differences in cultures and theologies. I have grown through encounter with commited to Christ high churchmen, Pentecostals, evangelicals. I have been kicked through my lingering USA centerism, my unrevealed emotions about how blacks and whites can worship together (as long as white European culture leads), and am closer to God for being kicked. Transcendent unity in Christ is a Good Thing.
But we are being sold a bill of goods.
Even though Ms. Russell calls it “Unity in Christ†that is not what we are offered.
We are offered unity in the Church of Unity, Unity with the Spirit of the Age, unity in what Flip Wilson called “The Church of What’s Happening Nowâ€
We are being lied to
Cynned (#12) – thanks for the compliment. BTW, I am not a priest, so I don’t sign my name with a cross after it. I am a deacon. I am not “only” or “just” a deacon, I am a honored to be a deacon in Christ’s church.
Cynned (#12) – of course you could be referring to Phil in #2. I’m not sure if he is ordained to the presbyteriat or not.
YBIC,
Phil Snyder
Amen and amen, Eric.
I have found more transcendent Unity being affiliated with Uganda than I EVER did as a TEC. For one, we can agree on Christ as THE Savior of Mankind – THAT creates Unity.
Thanks be to God.
Therefore I urge you bretheran, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God-this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good pleasing and perfect will. Romans 12:1,2
[blockquote]But we are being sold a bill of goods.
Even though Ms. Russell calls it “Unity in Christ†that is not what we are offered.
We are offered unity in the Church of Unity, Unity with the Spirit of the Age, unity in what Flip Wilson called “The Church of What’s Happening Nowâ€
We are being lied to [/blockquote]
Quite right, Eric, and I thank you for qualifying my statement so well. I, too, have been broadened and deepend through discussion with those of other Christian denominations, particularly the Orthodox. But I think we both agree that Ms. Russell’s new “theology” is little more than a trendy political project with some vestments hastily tossed on for effect.
The idea that perhaps they could come if the American bishops stayed home has either not occurred to the Presiding Bishop or has been rejected by her. Such an action would do more to heal the present divisions than all the pious and self-serving rhetoric.
O.K.; all this talk about the “other” has led me to make a weird connection between TEC and the ABC television series Lost. The plane that crashed is flight 815. The malevolent group that threatens the survivors is called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Others_(Lost)]”the others” [/url]. Could it be that this series is an allegory for TEC? There is a brave, surviving group marooned and being threatened after going down in flames on flight 815. Maybe “the others” are the ones that are truly Lost. The more I think about it the more the parallels abound.
Anybody want to go further with this? :>)
That a good (and I do mean good in a few senses) number of primates and provinces want nothing to do with the lies and continuing defiance of pecusa can’t be surprising to the PB even given the insularity of liberals in pecusa. That these same bishops wouldn’t want any gift that came from pecusa shouldn’t be surprising, Schori exhibits again her poor understanding of classical theology and ecclesiology.
Banned by the head totalitarian of Stand Firm in Faith.
Susan Russell did her perfunctory drive-by comment while on a break from her ever-shrinking blog. Loyalty to the PB is a wonderful gift for those who have the stomach to “live into” the call. Shame that Ms. Russell’s unity is with someone that never shrinks from breaking unity.
The “gift” is a large box of Turkish Delight. Let the reader understand.
Rev. Susan wants a “unity” in Christ (or whatever you care to mention) that “transcends”…..Theologies?! How would she know something transcendent if it bit her? What “theology” has been taught to Episcopalian seminarians lately? What has the Episcopal Church of the last 40 years presented to humanity that transcends the mutterings of James Pike? In her religion things are a moving target. When something “transcends” what was there last week, something else will transcend that in another few days. I can hardly wait for the day when some of her parishoners inform her *they* will do the eucharist in their living rooms and her services have been transcended by the new revelation that the “priesthood of all believers” just arrived. They’ll be *beyond* theologies more than she would like, and sooner than she thinks, so she should get vested in that pen$ion fund a$ $oon a$ po$$ible.
Let’s see…the gift of Bruno lying to the world public,the gift of Bp Chane giving open communion to muslims, the gift of Stacy Sauls and his stripper stories,the gift of Bp.Peter Lee bankrupting the Va.diocese with lawsuits against Christ’s followers,the gift of Bp. Beisner and his exwives and his lawsuits in Peteluma, the gift of Bp. Ingham and his hamfisted draconian pogrom against those who defend the bible, the gift of Katherine Schori who lied to all the attending Primates in Dar es Salaam,
the gift of….. ugh…no thanks Mrs. Schori there is no need to celebrate Lambeth with more of your gifts at the present time.
Intercessor
BTW Mrs. Schori,
But I suspect that RW+ is very excited that you are coming with your checkbook.
Shalom,
Intercessor
Hmmm, a 5. A 5!
Now I am willing to bow to the Commenatrix as being a 10. (Actually, I’d give her a 15 but then I’ve never liked sharp objects.) But seriously – a 5? Them’s fighting words, girl.
Well, he is a priest you know which should place him in the sub 3 category but fighting in the Anglican Wars probably gives him an edge so I think he ranks a 5.
My personal rating is 9. It has to do with that steel core found in all true southern belles.
But David you are a Brit living down under! How can you have a number?
What happened to the dolphin-like and affirming Sarah?
[i] Whoa. This sweet elf person is feeling left out of positive accolades. In order to survive, I’m guessing Sarah will rate the elves with the highest of numbers. [/i]
Sarah, You are evading the real issue here. What have you done with the dolphin-like, affirming Sarah?
Elves eat cookies. This definitely lowers their to be Totalitarianish. This will require deep thought and concentration possibly outside consultation.
Wasn’t the Trojan Horse a gift?
Having pondered this matter from all angles I have concluded that Sarah was correct in ranking herself. She is definitely an 8. I am sure after she calms down a bit she will realize being just one number below me is not so bad. I mean everyone needs a goal.
OK you two – Jackie and Sarah – you need to remember that both of you FAIL and FAIL miserably beside Jake – who bans people off his site when they aren’t even WRITING on his site! Now that is banning power!
If you do THIS – then you might be able to fall in with the ‘big league banners’ – but until then, you will only be nipping and snipping at big bro. Jake’s heals.
Think about it…. won’t you?
Christ transcends all cultures….however the theology remains intact in the Holy Scripture. Humanists, secularists and pantheists CHOOSE to have diverse theologies. After nearly 60 years of anglicanism (within the PECUSA) I am finding refuge and welcome in the Orthodox Church(talk about diversity!). As one congregant told me Sunday after the Divine Liturgy at the Antiochian Orthodox Church…..we are the same yesterday, today and tommorrow, for we hold to the faith as handed down by the Apostles, the church Fathers and the Saints and Martyrs. That is good enough for me.
Peace to all!
Barry
[i] Slightly edited by elf. [/i]
How about the gift of finding a unity in Christ that transcends differences in cultures and theologies? Nah … that’s probably too traditionally Anglican an approach for those ready to throw out the ABofC with the bathwater
So says Susan Russell. This is interesting for two reasons.
first, she does not mean to transcend, she means to obliterate the differences in culture and theology, that is, to makes differences meaningless, and the consequent is that this approach to unity is retroactive to all such differences in this world, that is, that they should become meaningless here and now. It is not difficult to see the purpose of this gambit.
Second, how can one transcend theologies, for if a theology speaks the truth – and I am supposing here that Christianity does indeed do so – what can this transcendant state consist of? A condition in which truth is transcended? What can such a state be that transcends Nirvana and Heaven, since an approach to Christ cannot be an approach to Nirvana? Her phrase here is meaningless.
Moving behind such cant is the liberal desire to create a society without a past, for the past, having established meanings, cannot be allowed to interfere with the casting off of those shackles which is the heritage of the past. What Susan wants is a tabula rasa on which she may write what she will. And it for this reason I said that her intent is not to transcend, but to obliterate. LM
Y’know, folks, I really wasn’t surprised when Ms Russell “counted coup” on me. Others tried that…….and got the short end of the stick! They didn’t like it.
#10: ‘Gift’ is of course German for ‘poison’, as the well-read theologian Dr Schori knows.
#38: “But David you are a Brit living down under! How can you have a number?”
They were each assigned one on their shirts, in the HM Government ships that took them out there.
These public statements cost nothing and are clearly arch. Obviously the fact of several Primates NOT attending Lambeth is music to the PB’s ears.
Seitz-ACI:
All I know is this – I am thankful to God to be under Godly men like A.B. Orombi and NOT under apostate people like Shori.
The simple fact of the matter is while we waste time trying to “”””save””” the Episcopal Church, an entire world needs to hear of Christ’s love and redemption. While we waste time arguing over the validity of BASIC tenants of the Faith an entire world stays unredeemed and untouched by the love of Christ. While we wander aimlessly in the wisdom of men (which is foolishness to God) our society slowly dies a painful meaningless death not knowing Christ as Savior.
I personally am glad to be out of that black glue of TEC (to use a Spiderman inference there) and am very thankful my church can get back to it’s main mission – which is knowing Christ and drawing others into relationship with Him.
For those of us who were having our lives and ministries sucked dry by the apostasy of TEC – we are thankful for the rescue of Godly men like A.B. Orombi.
I am not sure that Dioceses in TEC are ‘under’ Schori though the idea has a way of provoking other sorts of understandings of the way forward, for those like yourself (as least as you express it above). What is at issue is precisely what a PB can and cannot do in TEC (whose distinctive polity is usually trumpeted by liberals; Simon Podmore has a very good analysis of the difference between C of E and TEC in this and other areas in a recent issue of the Ecclesiastical Law Journal; I commend it). Frankly, I have always found this language a bit odd: ‘I am under X or Y Archbishop.’ The PB of TEC has no authority to enter dioceses and consecrate unless so invited (see the recent SC consecration of +Lawrence). As +Dallas said some time ago, let’s not give the PB power she does not have and then contest it as well.
Ms. Russell,
A unity in Christ that transcends theology requires a Christ who did not actually say much that calls for reflection, and is not anything much that needs to be understood.
I rejoice to be under the Godly Bishop Nathan Kyamanywa of the Anglican Church of Uganda but I also wish he were going to Lambeth. His wise and Godly counsel would be a valuable aid to the comcon bishops who sill be fighting the good fight there.
I see this banning business (which is pretty juvenile in itself) has become rather personal to Sarah, so let’s look at what set this off: I commented on the hypocrisy of Greg (the head totalitarian) threatening another poster with banning for questioning Greg about sources in a piece Greg did bashing David Virtue. I personallly find the whole threatening and banning that goes on at SFIF to be childish, but it seems to go deep into the SF culture. If commenting on the hypocrisy of all this makes me a boring buffoon, I guess I must be guilty. I’m personally glad that Sarah can make such a derogatory comment about me without being threated with banning here on T19. An outrage? My, we throw around terms so breezily.
Sarah:
On another note, I really must protest TonyinCNY’s statement at the end of his comment. It really is an outrage.
While it’s nice to know that being banned from SF is either a badge of honor or that it continues to fester for months after . . . Greg is really a patsy. To be banned by Greg is nothing all that grand, not rising to the level of particularly notable.
He is certainly not the head totalitarian either. He may claim to be so, but he’s the nice one and does a few minor technical thingies that all of the rest of us, I’m sure, could do ourselves were we to be able to find the time.
But as far as Head Totalitarianship, I would rank it in this way:
Commenatrix—++++10
Sarah Hey—8
Matt Kennedy—7
Jackie Bruchi—5
Greg Griffith—2
To be banned by a 2 on the scale of Head Totalitarianship is . . . er . . . somewhat shameful, like being disliked by a small cuddly kitten.
One would have to 1) Register at SF. 2) Behave like a buffoon, and a boring one to boot, on comment after comment after comment, causing people’s eyes to glaze over and their heads to nod. 3) Make those comments when all the Real Head Totalitarians are gone and miss all the fun. 4) Finally goad the small cuddly kitten into action, after he looked around and noticed all the Head Totalitarians gone from the blog.
Voila.
Sarah, what, no head toss or smiley?
Notice, won’t you, how cheap actions and easy words flow from the PB and notable acolyte Susan Russell. PB: hangs in the shadows of Manhattan making pundit reconciliation statements when she could pick up the phone and have a unity, heart to heart with divergent prelates with whom she wants unity. Susan Russell: won’t get out of the shadows of associate priesthood and take her act to the average parish….as THE pastor. Pronounces anathemas and blessings while hiding in the shadows of her inner circle. To these I say: If you have the gifts of unity…get with it and bring the gifts on. Stop your pronouncements and punditry while lolling with your like-minded. Take a flight and meet face to face. Pick up a phone and arrange a teleconference. BE what you say. Until you get with it just stay in your lurking mode and be quiet.
[blockquote]All in all, I’d put David, then at a level slightly below Matt Kennedy, a 4 on the level of Head Totalitarianship. So the revised order would then be this:
Commenatrix–++++10
Sarah Hey–8
Matt Kennedy–5
David Ould–4
Greg Griffith–2 [/blockquote]
Sarah, my dear, I believe you have left something out of your response. I believe we clearly established my ranking at 9 (when in fact it is probably really a 9.5). Knowing your dolphin-like ways, I am certain this is just an oversight on your part.
[b]TonyinCNY :[/b]
Listen, I don’t even remember your being on StandFirm OR being banned, but I’ve kept my eye on that site enough to know that they are very lenient, overall, and the only people I’ve ever seen banned usually had plenty of warnings before it happened.
Compared to the non-orthodox sites, like ‘Fr. Jake’ – who will ban you if you say “I love Jesus” – I think they are not really that extreme… or even “I love Jesus” on another site – which I find extremely amusing.
Sarah is just being silly – you have to give her credit for her ability to be loquaciously silly off the cuff – it is an attribute I do admire about her.
And give it a rest, will you? I don’t remember StandFirm being in Uganda – so let’s save it for “Why People are Mean to Me on StandFirm” Thread.
[b]Seitz-ACI[/b]:
Interesting, interesting. So, if Shori is NOT someone in authority over anyone, then why in the world does she speak for TEC – and poor people in TEC have to say things like “Your Grace” and all that silliness I never cottoned too even WHEN I was in TEC? Why wear that little miter deal and parade about with gold encrusted staffs and stuff? Why, in short, should she even matter? Why is she suing people, taking parishes, inhibiting bishops and all the rest IF she is not in authority? I will submit such logic is hard to follow.
My understanding of Anglican Christianity is that the laity are members of the parish which is under the guidance of a shepherd. I would say that I am ‘under’ my priest’s authority – because he is our spiritual leader. My understanding of a bishop is that he is supposed to be the Head Shepherd of the Shepherds of the Parishes. That he oversees them as they oversee the people. So I am also ‘under’ my bishop’s authority. These Head Shepherds are under the Great Shepherd and are supposed to act like it (of which I will admit I saw very little of as a member of TEC – I have seen it a great deal since becoming a part of Uganda). The Archbishop oversees the bishops – and likewise I am also under his authority.
And yes, corrupt headship eventually destroys all that is underneath it. I have seen it personally happen in my former parish – where slowly but surely good priests are corrupted and good people led astray. It matters – matters a great deal – who you are ‘under authority’ too.
[i] This elf has been gone most of the day. It’s time for this silliness to stop. If you are unable to stay on topic, the thread will close.
To TonyinCNY: StandFirm is another blog. They don’t discuss what we are doing on their blog nor is there any reason for you to mention them here again. Let it go.[/i]
Eclipse, first of all, this thread is not about me or SFIF, it’s about the Church of Uganda, lest we forget. To address what you’ve said, there were no warnings period, so as far as leniency goes, there it is. About the warnings, though, I’ll stand by what I’ve said above (i.e juvenile and childish). As I’ve said to Matt, I regard T19 as the gold standard of Anglican blogs. In addition to my viewpoint on the threats and banishments at SF, I find it a bit down market to ask people to vote for your blog in a contest for best blog stature and then display a logo about winning.
Fwiw, a friend did contact Matt without my knowledge to ask that I be reinstated; I asked Matt not to be reinstated. There is a sense of freedom with not being able to comment over there. It is interesting to me that anyone from SFIF folks would find it necessary to come over here to comment about issues with their blog. But again, this is all off topic.
[i] I regret to do this, but you need some time off, Tony. You pushed too hard and wouldn’t let it go. [/i]
The sharp, mutilitating comments so often spewed forth here, like shrapnel represent an Anglicanism devoid of kindness, mercy, gentleness and self control. One gift the Lambeth snubbers will miss is humility. There is enough grumbling here to make 40 years in the wilderness look like a beach party.